Freedom PvP League 2011 - Draft Thread and basic team guidelines
By
anoob,
Posted on: 2011-09-05 02:48 in Everything about PvP
When this first showed up I was like, 'Lol...thats gonna be all out of wack". Now I've thought about it all its really saying is you don't have to be played. Stop reading so far into as 'OMG I WILL NEVER PVPZ'. Most captains, even the Vinnie/Silit team will play those that put forth the effort and improvements, so this "rule" shouldn't even cause much alarm.
Now on the other hand if you join a team and never show up, never help the team, never help team mates, then one day show up to a match and expect to play I can safely agree no captain WOULD play you or WANT to play you. Considering the team members who put in the time and effort, you are kind of the ******* of the team if you don't help at all and expect to play when it matters.
Wording "could" be a little better in the rule/regulation, but I find no immediate harm in the principle behind the fact.
On the side note it does, abruptly, spark the thought of forming your own team so you can do things "your way" (thanks burger king). Regardless of the scenario, or the case, in which you choose to fall I hope you don't let such a trivial thing barr you from participating.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
When I was questioned later in the evening, later than I should have been up, about this rule I said exactly the same thing, you might get picked up but they won't have to play you in officials. I explained that they would most likely be able to play in practices, improve etc. They where already upset about it and they don't want to just get picked up not to be played in officials which is why I suggested they form a team and guarentee themselves play time. So in this case anyone picking them up without the intention of playing them isn't doing them a favor.
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TBH I think telling them to make their own team is a really bad idea. We saw what happens to a team that just picks it friends without any true pvp leadership or knowledge during the most recent league on Champion.
To their credit they finished off the season but I do think it was a very rough one for everyone on that team and honestly, they didn't progress any.
I think for some of these players new to pvp they really need a mentor to help them along the path, teaching them what works and what doesn't.
I have a lot of respect for Smoke as a pvp emp, I think he has been doing this long enough to new players who want to try out healing in pvp.
I've always been vocal about your skills and potential as a healer/buffer and thought you did a good job of helping to show new players the ropes (bambi, just, arky, and des).
Your team also has Johnny who I teamed with way back on CK's team and I think he does a great job of empping as well.
With a no-limit cap on team size and not being forced to play characters, I just do not understand why you wouldn't draft your friend and help to teach him how to play pain dom.
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Perhaps you missed the part where they said they don't want to be picked up if they won't be played in officials which I can not guarentee with so many members on our core. |
Originally Posted by The_Masque
TBH I think telling them to make their own team is a really bad idea. We saw what happens to a team that just picks it friends without any true pvp leadership or knowledge during the most recent league on Champion.
To their credit they finished off the season but I do think it was a very rough one for everyone on that team and honestly, they didn't progress any. I think for some of these players new to pvp they really need a mentor to help them along the path, teaching them what works and what doesn't. I have a lot of respect for Smoke as a pvp emp, I think he has been doing this long enough to new players who want to try out healing in pvp. I've always been vocal about your skills and potential as a healer/buffer and thought you did a good job of helping to show new players the ropes (bambi, just, arky, and des). Your team also has Johnny who I teamed with way back on CK's team and I think he does a great job of empping as well. With a no-limit cap on team size and not being forced to play characters, I just do not understand why you wouldn't draft your friend and help to teach him how to play pain dom. |
As far as experience for their team both Braj and I where trying to put them in touch with people.
I have to agree with Silit/Vince/Dex it doesn't seem right to draft a ton of people when you may not be able to play them. Whereas a new team might apreciate dedicated players and they would be guarenteed play time. I am not sure they will form a team due to their bad experience last league but they where dedicated and showed up each week to keep trying.
As far as still helping them learn I was asked to continue and I will. It will just have to be in a different environment. Both Braj and I are trying to encourage them to join in KB's on freedom.
Regardless this really doesn't belong in this thread.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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But what I'm saying is, their desire may not be in their best interest.
Getting 'game' time shouldn't be the focus of their attention at this moment. If that truely is their belief...wow...
How many people started off in pvp playing in every match. You pretty much had to earn that right.
I still say telling new players to pvp to form a team is a bad idea, they won't last.
Now I'm not anywhere near the best emp playing, but I do ok. And when I first started I rode the bench a lot, but showed up to practices and listened to those that knew more than me and joined kb's and did whatever I could do to learn what I can. I have to agree that face time in officials, while satisfying, shouldn't be the focus of a new or still green player. Getting on a team with experienced people, watching, learning, practicing, and applying what you pick up should be. That's how you get played in the first place.
Now, that said, I don't think a captain should have any obligation whatsoever to play everyone that shows up. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. If the draftees want to form up another team and do so with the understanding that they will get rolled more often than not during official play, I think that's great. I honestly don't think you get better unless you play against people better than you. Play. Take your lumps. Improve. And pretty soon people are saying, 'Hey, XYZ is getting pretty decent.'. Next league they're picked up with the intention of getting some serious face time.
It's the way it is in any competitive environment. Make your own team? Ok. Stay in the draft, talk to other captains, express your interest to learn and improve, and try to get on a team. Great. Quit outright because you might not see much game time? Good luck ever ever ever getting any better.
My overly long 2 cents.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
Main thread is up, why QQ about the draft rule when you can QQ about a whole page of rules and guidelines.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=272199
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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You and Silit both, he voted himself into a bench warming role. Fake locks are fake. He isn't even keeping up with the build making...
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I'm not sure I like this rule, I don't think I'm good enough to keep my core spot.
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He will always be ready to come off bench if you need a team TPer though !
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1.I just want to say that you must be joking, of course we want playing time. Sorry that we don't want to be punch dummies for certain practices. We are trying to join a league not some PvP boot camp.|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
But what I'm saying is, their desire may not be in their best interest.
1) Getting 'game' time shouldn't be the focus of their attention at this moment. If that truely is their belief...wow...? 2) How many people started off in pvp playing in every match. You pretty much had to earn that right. 3) I still say telling new players to pvp to form a team is a bad idea, they won't last. |
2.Your right but the fact that you have the possibility to be picked up by someone that will never play you regardless of how much you improve sounds pretty lame to me.
3. I think that essentially ALL people want to play, so why would you say that forming our own teams be a bad thing? We would still gain experience from it. You say new people wont last? If you mean wont get far in the league, then i'm sure your right, but if you are implying that they would not last on a team together you are being quite presumptuous and should surely take a hike with that statement.
just for putting yourself out there and joining up says alot even if your new or a returning vet to this style of pvp. its not about being played, your skill or who you know. its about having fun. practice or officials its all the same thing - arena 8v8 format pvp. you all have the option to play for any team just by contacting the captains and talking to them and proving yourself over the next guy for whatever lineup/stradegy the team is running or practicing.
there is nothing to be said when you are put to the line and have to perform just like the rest. step up and prove yourself, take critisizm and keep rollin.
good times cya in arena.
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You "new people" or w/e, should just make your own team & then you can choose to play or bench yourselves as you wish if you're that worried about it. Boosh.
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Originally Posted by Artic Keeper
3. I think that essentially ALL people want to play, so why would you say that forming our own teams be a bad thing? We would still gain experience from it. You say new people wont last? If you mean wont get far in the league, then i'm sure your right, but if you are implying that they would not last on a team together you are being quite presumptuous and should surely take a hike with that statement.
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Let me reiterate what I said before.|
Originally Posted by PowerFlame
just for putting yourself out there and joining up says alot even if your new or a returning vet to this style of pvp. its not about being played, your skill or who you know. its about having fun. practice or officials its all the same thing - arena 8v8 format pvp. you all have the option to play for any team just by contacting the captains and talking to them and proving yourself over the next guy for whatever lineup/stradegy the team is running or practicing.
there is nothing to be said when you are put to the line and have to perform just like the rest. step up and prove yourself, take critisizm and keep rollin. good times cya in arena. |
2.Your right but the fact that you have the possibility to be picked up by someone that will never play you regardless of how much you improve sounds pretty lame to me.
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1. Practices aren't like a boot camp you don't do a 4 emp team vs 8 blasters (Unless your team is really bad and needs the true basics worked on) Practices in this type of league are just 8v8 scrimmages against other teams. Its the same thing as a match but without a point value assigned to it. Honestly practices are usually more fun than officials. So if you do get on a team but arent good enough to play officials then enjoy the **** out of practices.|
Originally Posted by Artic Keeper
1.I just want to say that you must be joking, of course we want playing time. Sorry that we don't want to be punch dummies for certain practices. We are trying to join a league not some PvP boot camp.
2.Your right but the fact that you have the possibility to be picked up by someone that will never play you regardless of how much you improve sounds pretty lame to me. 3. I think that essentially ALL people want to play, so why would you say that forming our own teams be a bad thing? We would still gain experience from it. You say new people wont last? If you mean wont get far in the league, then i'm sure your right, but if you are implying that they would not last on a team together you are being quite presumptuous and should surely take a hike with that statement. |
2. YOP
3. You tell him! That guys is a real jerk.
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1. Everyone wants playing time. Everyone usually gets playing time in practices, because they are the best time to, y'know... practice. Practices don't mean anything other than being a forum for people to improve. If you practice, and show improvement and dedication to the team, you will probably be rewarded. If you practice, and just run through the motions, and don't make any effort to improve otherwise, you will be less rewarded. If you never show up for anything but a few officials, of course you're not going to get played. Even though the game is about fun, people still want to win. Putting a bad PvPer in the place of a solid or good PvPer is not a good way to win.|
Originally Posted by Artic Keeper
1.I just want to say that you must be joking, of course we want playing time. Sorry that we don't want to be punch dummies for certain practices. We are trying to join a league not some PvP boot camp.
2.Your right but the fact that you have the possibility to be picked up by someone that will never play you regardless of how much you improve sounds pretty lame to me. 3. I think that essentially ALL people want to play, so why would you say that forming our own teams be a bad thing? We would still gain experience from it. You say new people wont last? If you mean wont get far in the league, then i'm sure your right, but if you are implying that they would not last on a team together you are being quite presumptuous and should surely take a hike with that statement. |
2. Which is why teams aren't forced to draft people they might not even play. Completely avoids this issue.
3. I agree. Bad team or good team, there's always something you can learn from doing any kind of 8v8. It's all about your mindset. You get out of it what you put into it.
Can we stop discussing this here, this is a free agent thread, all this discussion is basically doing nothing but de-railing this thread. Thanks.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
In general, captains will play people who are reliable and skilled players*. If that does not describe you, then you know why you may not be played, but if it does describe you, then what do you have to worry about?
*if that even exists in CoX
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Exactly my point. |
Originally Posted by Smallzies
You "new people" or w/e, should just make your own team & then you can choose to play or bench yourselves as you wish if you're that worried about it. Boosh.
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Just having problems right now getting people so hoping to join up with Emo Bitter. If I cant get enough then I will just not be playing. BOOSH!!
Everyone is welcome to have their opinion, even if I or anyone else completely disagrees with it.
HOWEVER, this is not the thread to be discussing this in. This thread is dedicated to free agent applications. If you want to discuss it, somewhere in-game or on ventrillo or something is a better place to do it, or even a seperate new thread.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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No the facts are that the Captains can decide to not play someone regardless of their talent, and there by choosing friends over talent. |
Originally Posted by hemmingway3
In general, captains will play people who are reliable and skilled players*. If that does not describe you, then you know why you may not be played, but if it does describe you, then what do you have to worry about?
*if that even exists in CoX |
Keeper-
I understand your desire to play in matches, but in any competitive game you don't just let someone who hasn't shown himself to be dedicated or up to par with the rest of the field play.
Getting wrecked doesn't really teach you anything other than "oh yeah this is where my spawn point is". You would be better off coming to practices, KBs and trying to learn evasion routes, how not to plant, how to not use auto follow, how to watch your buff tray (I'm not saying you do/do not these things, I'm saying its the very basics).
I don't get why people have this sense of entitlement, I signed up YOU MUST PLAY ME. Thats a perfect way not to get drafted. If you were to say "hey guys I'm willing to come to practices and try to learn how to be a part of the team" I think you would be far better off.
Having said that- in the bud bowl, you were on Rice's team you did show up to almost every practice, you did try your best to play your stalker/tank in the roles we needed you too. Be that guy again, I actually liked how hard you were trying back then and saw you progress a lot.
As far as my comment about teams of new players not lasting- if you go back and look at most of the recent leagues teams made up new people to pvp almost always drop out of the league because they get in over their heads- eternal pain was a good example of this. You do need some sort of leadership or at least an idea of what a team is throwing at you and for that you need some vet players to show you the ropes.
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Originally Posted by Daknah
3. You tell him! That guys is a real jerk. |
p.
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I can speak personally for myself and say that I would never not consider playing someone that I picked up that showed the willingness to improve competitively.|
Originally Posted by Artic Keeper
Let me reiterate what I said before.
2.Your right but the fact that you have the possibility to be picked up by someone that will never play you regardless of how much you improve sounds pretty lame to me. |
Case in point is Seethe, a draftee this season who played for our team last year.
Seethe was drafted as a D6 blaster who had no relative experience in a PvP setting whatsoever. He took to the pressure of dealing with me as his target caller and rolled with every punch thrown at him. It made him an exceptional player in a small window of time, so much that he stepped in to fill March's (an excellent player in his own right) shoes during the finals of last year's FPvPL.
If that isn't an indication of a team's (or captain's) willingness to play a draftee that shows aptitude and dedication, I don't know what is. By the way, we won that league last year and wouldn't have done so without the assistance of several players who stepped up to fill roles that they had almost no experience in.
zomg, I know people in this thread!
I would like to sign up for this with the only toon I have on Freedom.
Psico Shu -Rad/Psi/Psi defender
I still need to do his Alpha Slot (just returned a week ago) and I need to redo his build to be up to date. I do have access to just about every IO, so the build is no problem (excepting the 2 billion INF IO's, haven't started them yet)
my global is @Arctic Shu
For those that don't know me, I am the founder of dUmb PvP. Thats right, I started the stupidness.
Don't know what other info you need, but just let me know.
As I have never been a part of a League I totally understand If I were drafted and didnt see as much match time as others. You have to prove yourself. That is obvious. I couldnt see a Captain that wants to win taking that kind of risk. This an excellent way for 'new to league" PvPrs to learn. All i know is what i have picked up on in zones over the years. I am certain there is still MUCH to learn.
As far as the draftees possibly forming their own team, well that idea will most likely cause those new to PvP to not want to encounter that again as the frustration of losing ALL THE TIME will not be much of a Moral booster.. All new PvPrs need that experienced, well rounded leader to show them the ropes and then maybe in the future when that person knows what is going on they might want to try there own team with their own ideas.
On a side note, here is what I have to offer if there are any spots available prior to the draft - Psy/EM, Fire/EM, Earth/Fire Dom, Psy/Cold Corr, KM/Inv Scrapper, Emp/Psy Fender, Rad/Pain Corr, Kin/Psy Fender, Mind/Psy Dom, Dark/Dev Blaster, Elec/Therm Corr, Ice/Rad Corr.
@The REAL Chop
My teachers always told me to follow my dreams. To bad they are all Nightmares.
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1) I guess I can see your point but here, but in all honesty I've been in a league with you as captain and I think you were one of the worst; being bought off by people to trade people. What is to say someone like you does not get paid, to have one of their players rise into a the starting line ups.|
Originally Posted by The_Masque
Keeper-
1) I understand your desire to play in matches, but in any competitive game you don't just let someone who hasn't shown himself to be dedicated or up to par with the rest of the field play. 2) Getting wrecked doesn't really teach you anything other than "oh yeah this is where my spawn point is". You would be better off coming to practices, KBs and trying to learn evasion routes, how not to plant, how to not use auto follow, how to watch your buff tray (I'm not saying you do/do not these things, I'm saying its the very basics). 3) I don't get why people have this sense of entitlement, I signed up YOU MUST PLAY ME. Thats a perfect way not to get drafted. If you were to say "hey guys I'm willing to come to practices and try to learn how to be a part of the team" I think you would be far better off. 4)Having said that- in the bud bowl, you were on Rice's team you did show up to almost every practice, you did try your best to play your stalker/tank in the roles we needed you too. Be that guy again, I actually liked how hard you were trying back then and saw you progress a lot. 5) As far as my comment about teams of new players not lasting- if you go back and look at most of the recent leagues teams made up new people to pvp almost always drop out of the league because they get in over their heads- eternal pain was a good example of this. You do need some sort of leadership or at least an idea of what a team is throwing at you and for that you need some vet players to show you the ropes. |
2) You can learn allot from a league even when getting your butt kicked so you sir are wrong, and thx for tips but they are things that I already have already been doing.
3) I personally never said that I am entitled to get playing time but as far as people who dedicated themselves to PvP boot camp, I surely believe they have earned their right to be in officials, regardless of how you feel they did in the bootcamp. The point of the bootcamp was to learn pvp basics and to be played in future leagues, and I don't think its anyone's fault if most of their team rage quit and they stuck it out costing their team to look awful do to lack of players.
4) Thank you
5) I do not have to look back at other previous teams to know that there will be rage quitters, but guess what people still stuck it through. Your right you do need some sort of leadership to keep a team together this is pretty basic stuff... As far as PvP Vet experience goes would love to have some be on my team, but that does not mean that I want to go to a draft where all I will pretty much be doing is getting on practices competing for a spot that may pretty much be reserved for a friend or like I said before a person buying there way into the starting line up...
As far as the issue being them "not being picked up" vs "not playing" I would say that most people want to team with their friends. With the new rule in place there is NO reason NOT to pick up every single one of your friends, even if they have a glass eye and a claw hand. You can sit around on vent talking, teaching them how to pvp and they aren't a liability during match time. I would draft every single one of my friends if I was a captain.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events