New Free For All PvP Zone: 'Death Valley'

The only effect PvPers having multiple accounts has is it artificially inflates the numbers and makes it appear that there are more people doing it than there really are.

Oh, and if you look at what I said 5% of 120,000 is 6,000 people. If you add the other 5% that occasionally engaged in PvP you have about 12,000.

Personally, I think assuming there were ever 12,000 PvPers at any point in this game's history is an incredibly generous number. It was probably much less than that in actuality.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Agreed. If there were that many there would have been tournaments and the typical pvp activity every week.

There wasn't.

See my Guides and Tutorials

I remember a PvP 1vs1 tournament on the Training server last year, which a friend of mine from Guardian went to the finals.

I think the numbers (5-10%) are a little on the low side.
I agree that they are not much higher, but imo, that's because most are on Freedom or spread across the server.
I'm trying to get a SG PvP team, one of my members went to Freedom to train and upgrade his toon, and now he's gone MIA and trying to get me to play on Freedom, since most PvP players are there.

I think it would be a good thing to have a zone where all servers link to to PvP.

Regarding the level issues i hear, i'm glad i have people talking about that, makes me and others think of solutions to this.

One i have regarding the 'attack, get on lowbie team for safety' tactic:
Only be able to get on teams in u'r level range, same as u'r attack range.
Say, a level 25 toon, can attack any toon level 20-30, and only join a team that would make him level 20-30.

Or, once u attack someone, no matter if u jump on a lowbie team yes or no, the toon u attacked will always be able to attack u.
Example:
Player A, lvl 25, attacks player B who is level 30. Player A goes on player C's 5 person team making him level 20. Player B can still attack Player A, but not the rest of the team, and because they are not in level range, they can not attack player B either.


Anyone with ideas, please chime in.

It's not been reverted for the same reason alot of other things are never reverted. They don't listen. Oh they hear things right, but action isn't always taken. You can only ignore customer feedback for so long before people pack up and leave and thats what these folks did. I think 4 - 5 accounts paying yearly subs is more than diddly squat if you ask me. that's over 500$ a year worth of revenue lost from just one person.

I took that into account Bill. My percentages are pure wild guesses, I make no bones about it and I make no claims that they are accurate. They probably aren't too far off, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

I mentioned the 5% that I considered "hardcore" PvPers, which are those that PvP is the reason they play the game.

I also mentioned an additional 5% that dabbled in it occasionally. That number may be a little higher than I estimated, but that number is a lot harder to quantify. Do you count if you participated in zone PvP a couple times, or if you fought another player once? Casual PvPers are a lot harder to identify than the hardcore.

I don't think the hardcore PvP population ever got higher than 6-7% at it's peak. Like I said, 5% of 120,000 is 6,000, and even at PvP's peak I didn't see enough people participating in it to accumulate that kind of number. I you average that out it's a little better than 500 PvPers per server, maybe a little skewed toward Freedom and Virtue. I don't know about you, but I never saw enough people PvPing to add up to that number, taking into account non-peak hours as well. I mean, if you see 25 in a zone on Friday at 9 PM, it's a bit of a stretch to assume that there were 475 at different times throughout the rest of the day. And casual PvPers making up the difference seems unlikely.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Ur fase seems unlikely.

Also your guess is actually incredibly innacurate. Avatea stated that at the height of PvP popularity (sometime around i10) the "hardcore" PvP population was just over 10% of the sub base. This only includes people who frequented zones, not people who were strictly arena PvPers or casual PvPers.

Since we are making uneducated guesses, I'd say the casual PvPer playerbase was something like 11.27234% of the game. So that would make 22.27234% of the population, which is pretty sizeable. This still doesn't include strictly arena PvPers.

Nice try though.

Yeah, I just don't understand why the PvE only players chime in with their reverberated percentages when they clearly have no foundation to base it on and clearly is not productive to the topic at hand. PvP players are here, and we are not going anywhere, see: my earlier post.

Hey hey je saist junior. Post source or calm down.

There is plenty of interest in PvP, but most people do not stick with it because the mechanics are horrid.

There was a large PvP population and there still is a small population. The population would not have shrunk so if the mechanics had not been gutted in the first place.

PvP was plenty popular. Just because "a large chunk" of you were not/are not interested in PvP does not mean that there are not plenty of people who are interested.

This statement is as true as saying "I live in North Korea and there is no Democracy. Democracy is dead." Just because you do not see people PvPing on whatever under-populated server you play on does not mean that it does not exist.

This has never been anything more than a convenient excuse. The developers knew that they were stabbing the existing PvP community in the back when they implemented the i13 changes.

Numbers have been given out in the past. The PvP community is not as small as you seem to think it is. It is not a non-issue. They have to decide who they will cater to with each update. So far, they have decided not to cater to the PvP community very many times.

Your idea of fact is laughable. You have contradicted yourself in this paragraph, alone.

Is that some Espanol?

Who are you kidding? Most people that have been playing more than a few months can start most SF/TFs by themselves.

Just because there is no activity on your server does not mean there is no activity. I already made this point once.


The former must precede the latter.

You have to be just as willing to stay on the move as they are willing to wait for you to stand still.

I see you are well educated in the ways of made-up statistics.

The only people that have a significant impact on the game are the developers. The developers decided it was justified to abandon a sizable portion of their players. They have lost revenue because of it. I don't see how you figure even one subscriber is irrelevant. The more people subscribed, the more active the game is in all areas and the more development money there is to imporve the game as a whole.

You forgot the part about those people paying good money to NCSoft that could have been/was used to improve the game.

Personally, I don't think you know very much about PvP in this game past or present, so what you think is about as irrelevant as any other random. See below:
And you do not know any better.

This describes several posters in this thread.


tl;dr: Why do you post things as statements when you clearly do not know what you are talking about?

Sup Katalyst

compared to the rest of the population of nearly 100K at the time, no not really.

The number of pvpers they were set to loose wasn't nearly high enough for them to put off implementing I13 pvp. They had plenty of time to do so.

Getting back on topic, I'd rather they actually fix pvp then add another useless zone that spreads out the CURRENTLY THIN pvping population even more.