If you are looking for innately high resist and defense, Invulnerability is the obvious choice. You'll have the Psi hole there, but I don't think it's too big of an issue. Shield defense isn't bad either, although the resists are a lot lower. You do gain damage output though.
You can IO any armor type with survival in mind, though.
Against normal to hit, I'll agree with maxed-out Invulnerability. Against incarnate to hit, I'm not sure the jury is in yet. Super Reflexes has the advantage of "easily" hitting 59% defense, but the disadvantage of low resistance and hit points, so I'd expect more trouble with spikes of damage.
You know, a soft-capped Fire/Invuln/Blaze running Rebirth sounds pretty tasty. Heck, if you go with Barrier and are surrounded, you'd be over the incarnate soft cap. I'm not sure how it actually plays, though, as I think there's a fair bit of psionics and debuffs in the incarnate content.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Honestly, I don't think there is such a thing among scrapper sets in terms on one set that can be built to be as good or better than all others in all circumstances. You're going to be hard-pressed to beat Invuln in a clean mish-mash of well-blended damage because most damage is smash/lethal, and Invuln eats smash/lethal damage as light snack. If you can build strongly enough, the smash/lethal/psi winner is probably Willpower, although Dark Armor is also a very strong choice. Its also very good at resisting endurance and recovery debuffs. In the old days, my perma-elude SR would laugh at sappers because even if they hit me, all my protection was tied up in a click that couldn't be detoggled, and it drained me to zero every couple minutes anyway all by itself. Today, one unlucky hit from a sapper and SR folds like an origami frog. Dark Armor still laughs at those. The mechanics of Dark Regeneration make it a bit rollercoaster, though.|
Originally Posted by Panikaze
Which secundary can provide maximum survivability of all scrapper sets?
|
The all-around quickest to immortality is SR, that can soft-cap fast. However, once it does it has trouble gaining any other tricks because resistance is much harder to build for than defense and most scrappers can hit the +health cap or get close to it. If you soft-cap Shields you end up with a somewhat stronger build, albeit its harder to soft-cap Shields.
I still think Regen is a joy to level, but its path to power once you hit level 50 is still tricky and expensive, and if you're not thinking about a leveling build I would mostly recommend Regen to min/maxers that want a challenge.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I think two can and should (Invulnerability, Regeneration) and two others can but shouldn't (Willpower, Shield Defense while One with the Shield is up). Did I miss some tricks?
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...and most scrappers can hit the +health cap or get close to it.
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'd go with SD. You get almost everything - softcapped defenses, decent resistances that you can boost to great levels while in T9, decent max HP, close to capped DDR, slow resistance, an AoE KD that also deals high damage.
Plug the heal hole with Rebirth, or if you really, really want to go crazy with survivability, grab Aid Self and Barrier ; another option still is to go DM/SD/Barrier, with Judgement, Shield Charge and eventually the Pyre or Mu epic (can handle end costs through Cardiac alpha, which also slightly boosts resistance) AoE damage isn't as poor as it used to be on that combo.
... Um. You know, I never looked at it that way before typing it out just now, and I may just have convinced myself that I, also, want MORE!
Quote:
I guess it depends on your definition of "close." I was fiddling around with my SR build and tried to see what I could do in terms of +health, and with very minor tweaks I was able to beef up the slotting in Aid other and adjust the slotting in Aid self, physical perfection, and Health to get four sets of four Numinas in there. That grants a total of +24% heal. With Spiritual Alpha I can get an additional 33%, for a total of +57% heal. The bottom tier Destiny rebirth core epiphany +health buff is about 5% (Mids lists it at 4%, but its rounding down: its 4.7%). That buff is affected by both Alpha and invention bonuses, so the bottom tier buff is +7.4% health. The build starts off with 148.9%, so that would mean at worst it would have 156.3% health. Half the time it would have at least 163.7% health. That's not the cap (~80%) but its not bad.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I think two can and should (Invulnerability, Regeneration) and two others can but shouldn't (Willpower, Shield Defense while One with the Shield is up). Did I miss some tricks?
|
I think going Rebirth Radial Epiphany is better in the long run, but I think it might be possible to push that number into the 160s definitively. Just not exactly sure how yet.
Interestingly, even if I don't go Rebirth Radial, I think this new build is actually better. It trades some recovery and regen, but ends up with marginally higher defenses and the same amount of net regen in points. When regen is the same in points and health is higher, that's a win for +health period.
Its 3.7% more survivable, but hey, that's almost as good as slotting a Shield Wall +3% res IO, so its tempting to respec into it. The only problem is it will be kind of expensive, since it uses five partial sets of Shield Wall, up from two. It also finally beats Iggy's version of my build, haha!
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
IMO with the set bonuses to softcap s/l, electric and dark should be the best all-around. I can't figure out what kind of holes you are talking about with a s/l softcapped electric, unless you gimped recharge on energize. Add in musculature radial and powersink becomes able to completely sap anything short of EB or AV after their alpha strike, bosses included. Perhaps you didn't take power surge and decided to run against Hydra or Arachnids?
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Yep, I didn't take powersurge, I really hate crashes 
and my gap is against dark/toxic mostly. Devouring earth eats me alive unless I put my difficult down again
I'll give dark a try.
Probably fire/dark or dark/dark
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
Ya, power surge takes care of negative and toxic, so that would be the problem. It is one of the safest crashes, if that helps, generating an EMP that will hold most things around you when it wears off. Without that tier 9 you are just a sitting duck for toxic damage.
New Devouring Earth can tear up anything; your best bet is to drain them or simply kill them before they kill you.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
lol this^^^
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I'd go with SD. You get almost everything - softcapped defenses, decent resistances that you can boost to great levels while in T9, decent max HP, close to capped DDR, slow resistance, an AoE KD that also deals high damage.
Plug the heal hole with Rebirth, or if you really, really want to go crazy with survivability, grab Aid Self and Barrier ; another option still is to go DM/SD/Barrier, with Judgement, Shield Charge and eventually the Pyre or Mu epic (can handle end costs through Cardiac alpha, which also slightly boosts resistance) AoE damage isn't as poor as it used to be on that combo. ... Um. You know, I never looked at it that way before typing it out just now, and I may just have convinced myself that I, also, want MORE! |
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1413;678;1356;HEX;| |78DA65936B4F1341148667B75B2BA52D1428E57EA95C5BBAED027E262A9A203441A| |B7E33CD024359A96DB36D8C7CF30F180D1AFD038AFA97D46FDE2FA8FFA09E3DEF80| |8DBB69F79979E7BC3367E7CC14EEAF468478B022B4D8A58ADD68948ADBAE5DAF4B3| |758B0CBCEB608092112275AA9202B529AEB76D3AEDAC3A7EAAADC95D58634576D77| |BF74C1BD5B73E36BD53DE9CA6AD33C6944376BB58A79C529EF359D6A39C2BD0D69D| |7A913E64EB12EE54E9C9B6BD57B4EC3D9722A4EF3207EB9EE6C9B176B3B07A582DD| |684AF76080324AD3FFA1971A3F2DFAD123E63D45632528F2D4B0846E018B8459612| |C71CF5866C4928451910E2913B9B46FBA279DF90EFC609CFD091C337A7E3132E40A| |A8B502582BBC0858BC56046B4596B9175B0C783D8D5C41957390737E4C4A48D3799| |ED0AEF0827AF618130E63AACC58D8675877D023570756D73B52BC42F71830C9E8A7| |804E04043ADFEB9E67F22D63EA1D90E0F402141755134531433FE61BC044590AE8D| |234CEAFEB1A7B86AE33468AC00DC6D84DE0162349AE38BE538F63DD21643183E54D| |0AE855F9F52295BE3EE03C894640F4AFF38E191498500926103880C03115F888229| |2AA7EC9173CFBEC4BC6FC2BE00878CD48BF611C926B50B90651F509547606C54FA3| |F869147F01C5CF916B58557DF8034B931F814F8C739F812FC057C69390F7866B143| |5CEA2AA59943A8B52E750DC1C4AFD945CE3CA35AE3254C920C31C32B4909A85EC53| |E44AC1A5A5323CD12C60D1C8349FF496988654A42D9E53C7710ED25154880CBE506| |49EF356C5C868AA28132588929457521ED288F1FF751C374EAF632BED1BCDFB14CB| |A72CF994659FB2E153368DD30B2D34563ABAE9B242691D8769546B1FFDDDAE5CE55| |3FFCB17F4E79FA26BD89799431CB6678C955E7AABAFB5C3DEF6A3BDD5D6BEDDD6DE| |6C6BFF05ADB8FAD4| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
This is what I managed to do BEST in terms of survivability.
But I don't advise that build to anyone, I'm just copying/pasting here to hope someone can help me tweak this to a playable level.
This build has /dark good resistance to all
with ranged AND aoe softcap
and DA double stack can pull you to mellee softcap
It's a tank scrapper build, but it lacks recharge badly
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
Quote:
Anything with defense debuffs, especially Cimerorans.
|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
IMO with the set bonuses to softcap s/l, electric and dark should be the best all-around. I can't figure out what kind of holes you are talking about with a s/l softcapped electric, unless you gimped recharge on energize.
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Meh, debatable. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Anything with defense debuffs, especially Cimerorans.
|
Because they don't really hit that hard with 62% S/L resist, and I only fight them on ITF, which I have team buffs, often a tank along and the team burn them so fast that they can't really do much against me.
Major problem is Devouring Earth, Arachnos, Arachnoids.
Tarantula Mistress from Arachnos scares me >.<, they remove all my S/L defense, and then I take serious damage from the executioners, when they placate and all..
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
Quote:
A single luck, power surge, or musculature-boosted power sink.
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Anything with defense debuffs, especially Cimerorans.
|
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Micro, no offense, but what do you do when your power surge is recharging? bio break? reply on forums?
Because every "gap" we point, you point power surge back as if it was up 100% of the time and solved all problems :P
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
I'd suggest Dark/Shield. I rarely die in any Incarnate trials and I am never at the iSoft Cap
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I just thought electric armor was good for trials. At first, "i was like why you guys complaining about these towers, then i got on my fa and was like it burns."
Are you wanting to reroll? Its sucks doing all the trials again and waiting for a very rare
I just usually make scrappers with SD for +damage aura. Everything else seems weaker 
Without SS, damage auras dont seem that great on a scrapper.
Quote:
That's because everything else is |
Originally Posted by Pureshadow2
Everything else seems weaker
|
and by weaker I mean put out less damage and have the same survivability in i trials.
Yes yes yes I know there are exceptions, jeeze guys
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Here's mine. It's very playable. Positional and lethal soft cap with one DA, and about 75% with two, giving you some room for defense debuffs. Barrier should help as well. Similar resistance, slightly higher hit points. Better accuracy on Dark Regeneration, though still lowish. Similar but slightly-higher recharge. Better knockback protection, though still only 11 instead of 12, though with Hover it's not really a problem on the handful of occasions I've been knocked back as a result. Higher budget.|
Originally Posted by Panikaze
This is what I managed to do BEST in terms of survivability.
But I don't advise that build to anyone, I'm just copying/pasting here to hope someone can help me tweak this to a playable level. This build has /dark good resistance to all with ranged AND aoe softcap and DA double stack can pull you to mellee softcap It's a tank scrapper build, but it lacks recharge badly |
If you want good recharge, I'd drop defense down to 40%, relying on Barrier to get you to the soft cap when it's critical. Pick up Hasten and maybe a couple more recharge bonuses with the room that should create in the build. It might be a better approach in most situations. I made my build in I19 before Barrier was an option.
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1446;718;1436;HEX;| |78DA6593EB6E125110C7CF9645044A5B4AE99D96DEB89685B5F56E6CAAD5A4B6245| |5D46F86ACED29AC45200B31ED375FC068AAD117D0AA8FE15398A82FE0A5D5173038| |3B33E02610C8EF3073FEFF3333BB27BFBFD62BC4D315A1F45DAF188D46B1B06D19F| |5BAB4DC79A3646E07572B725F9AD14C745DBF18AD984FA44708116E6F2AE665454A| |6DC3681A5563A2135D93BBB2DA90DA9A61ED1557ADC7352BB85E2D4B4B569B5A7BE| |1DFAAD52ADACD8A592A3703B4B69766B5D48FFF36A5B123AD46D9ACF7B6FFD72119| |BC5137B7B56BB59D8362DE6834A575300A05A5E0F7CCAE0C3F2DB788F508A18B9E0| |4218950538434E2D4274048246D95C2AAAC0B3339C4699D7006E15B426496112950| |29AC52BE835144F87E207A7F127E21FA8E09278834A85CA4525DCB8A6D3490438CE| |B889925C4DC59841FB6BBA921E1FE8645BF8090070F6EA99E2B008F4B0C3287CE33| |1F09F40AA3C92228BC74A6F08E287619CF21E4675FFF2512792116E086026C34400| |E837F85AD1AA60A46BF2016BF223220EBA77ADCFD1748367E195393832E5B367907| |4DA60A84BB88439005F95105697C5334BE288D2F4AE38BD2F866687C1AA84254A31| |2E21A87990AE4C2DC53B8051FE182C808EF1EB94ABB46992F2137C6E78FEDE2B8E6| |4A843262DE24D028E7F71059504DB0E3C439728A7DC6865448453815E1926234BE5| |7909AE6B3A6A9D718F51AA75EE3D46B9C7A4D52AF4150CDB2E12C1B26C93004A905| |7E540B6F71D6C97788D411E13DE1033DA98F88615025D830C1868B6458800795E6D| |9A5D3D8EA5140088D776BB7601117D9197CF387C027C79B731B189A543B170FBEF6| |EC379D910C3A6EA97CCD20A4E0A669B573F35A5B3EFB245A3F70AC0DC7FAA163ED1| |D809B446EAD635FE72E0A650E0F3B71861218FAED73DCD8DBD877865ECD0CBD9A59| |7A35B3F710FA7DC49FFFAA1EE50D0E527F4D3844E4BA7A4F7545F4AEC8B233E245A| |3A5AE4D2B218873BFFF00CEF4E810| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I've never had these survival problems you guys are talking about. Toxic is the closest thing to a real hole, and usually you aren't facing it long enough that you can't finish that arachnoid mission before power surge wears off. If you truly can't handle it within the time of power surge, boosted power sink is strong enough to cover that up, easy. For the brief time I was vil-side with my db/elec and kat/elec, I handled all arachnoid missions with power sink and never even needed power surge.|
Originally Posted by Panikaze
Micro, no offense, but what do you do when your power surge is recharging? bio break? reply on forums?
Because every "gap" we point, you point power surge back as if it was up 100% of the time and solved all problems :P |
I do, however, have a perma-power surge claws/electric brute build that will work as soon as burnout goes live, with time not in power surge covered by Eye of the Magus
You would likely do better with a consistently s/l capped /electric, though.
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Quote:
You'd have to really build for it at the cost of other things to get Willpower on a Scrapper to the Health Cap.
|
Originally Posted by Werner
I think two can and should (Invulnerability, Regeneration) and two others can but shouldn't (Willpower, Shield Defense while One with the Shield is up). Did I miss some tricks?
|
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Right, which is why you shouldn't do it. But you can. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
You'd have to really build for it at the cost of other things to get Willpower on a Scrapper to the Health Cap.
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
I've never had these survival problems you guys are talking about. Toxic is the closest thing to a real hole, and usually you aren't facing it long enough that you can't finish that arachnoid mission before power surge wears off. If you truly can't handle it within the time of power surge, boosted power sink is strong enough to cover that up, easy. For the brief time I was vil-side with my db/elec and kat/elec, I handled all arachnoid missions with power sink and never even needed power surge.
I do, however, have a perma-power surge claws/electric brute build that will work as soon as burnout goes live, with time not in power surge covered by Eye of the Magus You would likely do better with a consistently s/l capped /electric, though. |
I apparently wouldn't be able to finish an arachnoid mission before power surge wears off.I play at +2/x8 normally with bosses, and mostly solo.
I can handle arachnoids at +0x5, but it's not fun ;_;
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!
Quote:
You really ought to try the musculature radial tier 4 with power sink, because the enddrain stays consistently potent when you turn up the difficulty and its always autohit.
|
Originally Posted by Panikaze
I apparently wouldn't be able to finish an arachnoid mission before power surge wears off.I play at +2/x8 normally with bosses, and mostly solo. I can handle arachnoids at +0x5, but it's not fun ;_; |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
So yeah...
I finished my scrapper, got him to 50, fully IO'd, got my alpha slot top tier, almost there with interface...
He's a claws/Elec, and he's a little weapon of mass destruction, high resist, S/L Capped.
He could be better if claws wasn't lethal...
or elec didn't have some gaps...
So here I am, asking my fellow scrappers.
Which secundary can provide maximum survivability of all scrapper sets? In terms of def and resist, and I'd like to -not- take DA or Parry into consideration because I'm thinking on a more effective primary than claws. Probably fire, or maybe spines.
WARNING!
The post above was made by a brutally honest person. It may contain sarcasm, dark humour, offensive language and typos! Don't lose your time trying to correct my spelling, english is not even my primary language...
My first guide, i15 plant/thorn dominator! Check it. NOW!