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This is pretty much where I am. But te difference is that if I know it's going to be this way, Ill jump on my 50 to do it. No point in just standing around not much doing anything.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I do.
I tend to prefer the lower level characters because they don't make the content "faceroll-lol" easy. I don't want to run a 5 minute ITF where it's just pets and rotating Judgements. I don't IO out characters to where the squishiest is untouchable and can solo everything in the game in 3 minutes... if I'm asleep. That's utterly boring to me. (Much like the "run, rinse, repeat" incarnate trials, FWIW. *shrug*) |
But this is how Im feeling in many situations.
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Im sure I will. I have before. I do like challenges and do enjoy repeating things in ouro or trying to do something I have not previously done, or TF's and all of that stuff.|
Originally Posted by Healix
I truly wish you good luck and hope you get your 'fun' groove back.
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Im sure Ill get my groove back, Im just spending more time looking at the toon selection screen than I am actually choosing one to play
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I guess I just don't get this. A lvl 50 was always massively more powerful than a lvl 1 (or 39), and there was always a range of "uberness" in lvl 50s (purpled out, multi-billion inf blasters make SO'd or even regular IO'd blasters look like lvl 39s in comparison, even if they're played poorly.). Even before incarnates, there was a limit to how uber your toon could be, an end to it, if you think of it that way. Is it just that the disparity is wider now and seems more obvious? Or that it takes less to get the same uber results and is now not exclusive to hardcore gamers, min/maxers, and marketeers? Even so, a purpled out, multi-billion inf incarnate toon is going to be more "uber" than an SO'd or IO'd incarnate toon. Run on a team with one of each, or heck, just build one of each. The difference is startling (and, to me at least, quite pleasing |
Originally Posted by Nyx
I thought I would address your statement, because the dilema I am having is with the balance of power, vs the absence of having it.
This is just my personal oppinion as well, but something others have agreed with me on, or felt was effecting the gameplay experience they used to have when making alts etc. |
).
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Play them all. Make new ones for sets you've never tried. Take turns burning their patrol Xp -one mission, one alt at a time. At some point, you may find yourself wanting to go back to one in particular. |
Originally Posted by Nyx
Im sure Ill get my groove back, Im just spending more time looking at the toon selection screen than I am actually choosing one to play
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Right now, I only have one level 50. The rest are incarnate 51-53(32 characters) and level 5-13 (12 characters). That may seem odd but my level pact partner and I are working on a pair of 48's.
They have very little time to play so all we do is keep making new baby alts to run in different ways. One pair starts with a hero contact, another in Mercy, another only runs random AE missions that look entertaining, another is in Praetoria. We just run maybe one mission per duo. Our goal is to whip out the patrol Xp and switch alts. Rinse. Repeat.
At some point, instead of rotating as planned, we found ourselves always opting to go back to our db scrappers over and over, duo'ing every tf, arc and accolade along the way. The best part is, of our dozen level pacted "lowbies" that see a mission a month, we already have clear cut favorite pairs that will be our next focus.
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Okay, this part stopped me cold. I know redside is traditionally less populated than blueside...but VIRTUE was "normally difficult" to team on? The same Virtue that's ALWAYS #1 or #2 for server load year after year? The one with all the roleplayers on it, who cannot really play solo because there's no audience? By what conceivable standard is teaming normally difficult on Virtue? Are you roleplaying a plague carrier or something?
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Originally Posted by Nyx
I was also a red side player on Virtue. AE made teaming even more difficult than it was normally
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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When will people get this through their thick skulls? Practically every feature in CoX is optional. Complaining about new features (especially when they don't negate the older features) is silly. Just don't do those features if they are not fun to you. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Simple solution to your woes: Quit doing stuff you don't like. Voila.
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Personally, I've never understood all the over-the-top IOing that people do to their characters. I get a regen and recovery IO or two slotted and I'm happy. I look at people that have dozens of Set Bonuses and I scoff--I perform on par with them in missions, trials and TF's so what's the big deal? Virtually all the features in CoX are optional. If there's something you don't like, don't do it.
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It's that way for some people. I did not mean to imply it was an issue for you.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
No offense Amy, but you are way off base in regards to what I was speaking of.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Okay, this part stopped me cold. I know redside is traditionally less populated than blueside...but VIRTUE was "normally difficult" to team on? The same Virtue that's ALWAYS #1 or #2 for server load year after year? The one with all the roleplayers on it, who cannot really play solo because there's no audience? By what conceivable standard is teaming normally difficult on Virtue? Are you roleplaying a plague carrier or something?
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*steals mm's moniez!*
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Maybe I misunderstand something, but isn't that a good thing? You're not gated out of almost anything and you can have everything good in due time. Isn't that kind of what all games should be like? Because the only two alternatives I can think of that can work instead of gating things behind time is gating them behind real money (Freedom) and gating them behind exclusively hard tasks. Honestly, neither of those are good solutions, as far as I'm concerned, if for no reason other than because they mean I can't have it.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
If you want something bad enough, then time is really where I was going with it.
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Call it a selfish desire, but I'm not a good player, yet I want to have the good stuff. I specifically chose City of Heroes (once I knew what it was about) expressly because it allows me to have fun and have cool stuff without ruining my own fun by turning the game into a professional sport. City of Heroes has always been generous with us and given us stuff just for showing up, which allows me to both play however I like and still get the rewards I'm after. And to me, that's a good thing.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
It's just the desire to play alts who's flaws now annoy me, over my epics, who now bore me...I think Im in a bind where the fluctuations between expectations and enjoyment are becoming ill balanced.
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The reason I say this is you don't play your low-level characters because they're too weak and you don't play your high-level characters because they're too strong. Unfortunately, there is no Goldilocks solution here. There never has been. You need to define the kind of experience you're after and then we can work on finding out what you need to achieve it.
As I can't offer you a workable solution, I can offer you my own objective and solution to it as an example:
Some time ago, I realised that the more I did things I didn't want to do, the less I felt like playing the game. Things I didn't want to do included participating in large teams, waiting for team tasks to form, min-maxing characters and taking part in the economy. My primary objective, then, became to play a City of Heroes with as few irritants as possible. My solution, then, became to avoid the Inventions system almost entirely, to build all of my characters to solo and join teams only as an exception not as the status quo, and to focus on writing stories for all of my characters that I could take with me outside the game.
That's just an example, of course, but you need to think about this in a more pragmatic and less emotional sense.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Having been on Virtue the last 2-3 years looking for RP groups to play with has me come up with a couple of reasons why RP teaming isn't as easy as some believe. Many roleplayers are either in Pocket D emoting or in-character chatting, or are in their own exclusive little circle of friends or SGmates. RP teaming does occur, but the RP PUG teams that I've been on do not last long and the IC chatter sometimes dies out. The few new RP SGs I've seen created are mostly redside, which I'm not all that interested in, are about Arachnos (yuck), or have some sort of demon/angel/angsty theme (double yuck).|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Okay, this part stopped me cold. I know redside is traditionally less populated than blueside...but VIRTUE was "normally difficult" to team on? The same Virtue that's ALWAYS #1 or #2 for server load year after year? The one with all the roleplayers on it, who cannot really play solo because there's no audience? By what conceivable standard is teaming normally difficult on Virtue? Are you roleplaying a plague carrier or something?
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As for 50 woes, the incarnate system is not for most of my characters and I really don't like that path after playing it a little. I want more level 50ish (say, 45-50) story arcs, not the one big Incarnate show at the end for every one of my characters. So alting I go.
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Sorry if I mistook what I thought you were saying between the lines--here, I've emphasized below why I said what I said.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Ummm..I do need to address this because this was not in my statement at all. The dilema was not about doing something I didn't like, nor was this about the incarnate trials per say. It was more about the concept that playing an alt feel lack lustre, while playing the epic "Alpha" toon becomes sort of dull as well.
I enjoy the game much, but perhaps it's just changed for me over the course of time. I have done the journey, and know the results of the destination. But by using the logic of not doing something I don't like would suggest that Im not enjoying the game. What I am not enjoying about the game now, is playing alts without power, and then switching to toons with so much power. And so the dilema is that the journey from point a to point b, has changed for me. (This has never been the case ever with me...I have never been that kind of gamer ever!!) Im trying to get my mojo or excitement back about trying new things. |
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Originally Posted by Nyx
Firstly it has made them so powerfull in my eyes that I could do a lot of content I could not do before, but in doing that, also became a touch more dull in the process. Secondly, I find that anything I make since then is dull or feels lack lustre, and it's almost feels like because I spent so much time working on these main toons (IOing, Trials, Etc) that doing the same for something lower seems offputting. It's like if they do not meet the expectations of the toons I have already made and made even better through the crafting system or incarnates just meet a deleted doom. It's like at level 30 I can tell if this is going to be a solid toon, and if it cannot destroy things like my level 50's, then I just lose interest. ... Heck, I have even switched to a red side toon for the sole purpose of needing to try new content instead of just becoming level hungry to race to the finish and get IO'ed and incarnated. This helped a little, because I had the option of playing some fun redside arcs, but in the end it really did not satisfy me as there were hardly any teaming options, and moreso nothing I can make now, really can ever top the two incarnates I made and I lose interest in the possibility of what they can be. Im just finding myself logging in, looking at my toon selection, seeing my play toys...then hitting the log out button. I really don't like that feeling, but it is how it's been now for a while. |
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Originally Posted by Nyx
Actually Sam...Thats about the issue Im speaking of. It never was before to me. It was always the progression to the point of end game. It was always about building something fun over something ultra mega powerfull, and it mostly was always about the fun time I would have doing it.
... They were always enjoyable before they were anything like they are now, and sadly, now that they are so epicly powerfull, they lost some of their charm. The personal touch that I had given them because A) the story changed to incorperate why they went to gain such power, which pigeon holes you into that story to begin with, and B) because they now are to shiney to even touch? 50 woes as I call them is happening with almost all of my alts now. Mainly because the process of making them perform later is daunting and sort of blah to me. I enjoyed it with two of my toons, but now even IOing is seeming a task/chore. My Death Knell has become exactly what I have never been. It's become a powers game even to me. Which is so strange because I generally prefered playing support sets considdered to most as being underpowered. It's throwing me for a loop, because my dilema is that I don't want to play my epic folks unless Im making inf, and I don't want to play my lower alts because I have been spoiled by the former. It's...just strange for me, because the only other game I have ever played that had done that to me is AoC, and although I could never ever be truly epic, if I found a really neato-rific flashy dagger...I felt a sense of accomplishment. But completeing a trial, getting a Judgement slot, or a lore pet, does not feel like an acomplishment, just something I can unlock over time through a grind fest, but is almost always going to happen for any toon that I ever choose to make. |
I don't think the game has changed. Sure, we've gotten some endgame, but what was there before is still there. You can choose to ignore the incarnate system, and nothing bad will happen to you as a result. I think it's your perception of the game that has changed, and you got caught up in the rush for "Moar power!" that many of us have fallen for. So please, do yourself a favor and sit down and think about it, at least. Maybe I'm wrong, I definitely could be--but it couldn't hurt to take a look at whats changed for you, and what has caused you to start feeling this way.
You know, I like this thread, because it is not about placing blame on the game, so much as just talking about the state the player has reached through the game and their own personal preference...
Just wanted to mention that! 
Honestly, Nyx, while it can sound a bit harsh, the "don't do what you don't enjoy" does actually apply. Not necessarily in the way you took it, but just in the very broad general sense.
It includes logging in and staring at your character select screen, hehe.
Some times, we all need a break.
It may only be a few days, it may be longer.
Don't push it.
Either log on with your uber 50s and enjoy it! 
Or log on with lower alts and enjoy it!
Or don't log in and enjoy something else!
The problem you're coming across still comes down to enjoyment.
If you're not enjoying playing the 50s, because you're not feeling any of the available content that you can find...
If you're not enjoying playing the lower characters because you feel like there's too much of a grind ahead of you or because they just aren't as fun as your higher level incarnates...
If you don't currently find enjoyment in making a new character, trying out a new approach, finding a new team, finding something else to get up to with the game...
You may need to take a break, mate!
However, I do run into similar spills myself.
I find that I tend to rotate (unplanned) around different activities that I might enjoy at different times within this game.
Recently, I have fallen in love with turning on the game and soloing 4 or so missions with my favorite character.
I'm not doing it for any other reason than I enjoy it. It's kind of a quiet role-play combined with video game action fun for myself. It's always been a major fail-safe with this game for me.
Sometimes I find that playing with a certain group of people will rekindle my mojo.
Sometimes, it is avoiding other people.
Sometimes, if I realize my game mojo is missing, I find myself falling in love with editing bases... playing in the character creator (okay, I do this all the time any way)... Writing AE missions/arcs... Just flying around, exploring, watching, without a care... Tackle certain little (or big) goals that I've never accomplished (either ever or just on a per character basis)... Sometimes I find my enjoyment playing with Demo Editing (it's somewhat of an abstract way to enjoy the game and I'm sure wouldn't work for everyone... but I sometimes feel like this is my favorite way to enjoy the game, haha)... You may find it in role-play, in conquest, in achievement, in exploration... And that thrill can come from any one of those (or none of those) at different points in time and while in different states of mind.
I highly suggest letting go... don't think about it... Let your inner fun-detector guide you...
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I can relate to Nyx's complaints. I've run a few characters through the Incarnate trials but that does tend to trivialize older content. I'm playing the game far less lately. I didn't enjoy Keyes and can't stand the though of one more BAF or Lambda. I am eagerly looking forward to being able to roll a Street Justice brute or scrapper but apart from that my main hope for continuing fun is that the devs will start to add new content specifically aimed at Incarnates that *isn't* Incarnate trials.
I'd love it if there was a new tougher zone with task forces that didn't explicitly require Incarnate abilities but were balanced around Incarnate-equipped teams.
The iTrials have their place, but I like the idea of content designed for smaller person teams at that difficulty level too. I remember the joy of a taking a small team of friends through a tough (for that pre-Incarnate era) arc filled with Malta. We weren't a huge random collection of strangers. We knew each other and had fun playing together working our way through content that was very challenging. I miss that.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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You always have been able to get to 50, it just might faster to 50 now, it was always timed based.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Agreed...But when the destination becomes more a formula, based on Level Progress + IOing + Incarnating +Time = Destination, the journey almost feels as though the accomplishments are just a matter of time anyhow and almost never failing, and thus striving for them is only just controlled by the hours you sit in your comp chair.
You can and always will/get to 50. You can now always have something epic. It's just time based, but it will always happen. |
As for difficulty feeling lost when ubered out. I can't help but say it again, play at higher difficulty against enemies that are serious threats.
Now I don't know what difficulty you're set at. But having all those IOs and Incarnate Abilties, but fighting 0/0 Council, well yeah, the game will be a cake walk.
Take that same thing up the difficulty to +4/8 and take on some Rularuu, Arachnos, Longbow, Cims, and you'll see some difficult times!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You scoff at people who like to play the game that's most fun for them? You scoff at people, like me, who want some +Recharge bonuses and end up getting about 30 other bonuses in the process?|
Originally Posted by Indiramourning
I look at people that have dozens of Set Bonuses and I scoff
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Not a good habit. You play your game, I'll play mine.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I wan't to play a game in which there is a reward, whether being a casual gamer or hardcore, that when I achieve makes me feel epic...not better, but proud! (Epic does not mean power to me, Epic can be playing DnD and finding a +2 dagger of venom and frothing at the mouth with delight)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's a problem that has no solution, because it comes down to what you want. And what DO you want out of the game, Nyx? Ask yourself this question and try to come up with an answer that can be said in a single sentence.
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Maybe I just don't feel super anymore? It could be just that. When I was second string, I was cooler than anything that a comic could come up with because it was mine.
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Craft and sell drops. You should get far more than 150 million that way by level 50.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Not for me, it won't. My wealthiest character has just over 150 million Influence. Which means I can't even buy a single purple IO.
I literally have no idea how people earn billions of Inf. Farming, I guess. There was one girl on here who played the game 8 hours a day and was complaining about the Inf cap being 2 billion. I'm never going to see that much across all of my characters no matter how long I play, because I'm lucky if I get in 8 hours a week. That means all these super-powerful goodies are forever locked to me. |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
No idea if this would help your current situation/funk, Nyx, but...
Sometimes that sort of fun can be won back by intentionally creating a design/concept that is very un-super, hehe.
Make some guy... no powers... just willing to tough it out.
Or some wimpy genius with faulty gadgets.
Some such character concept that you might enjoy being a low level nothing more than usual.
Again... don't over-think any of it though... that's what's squashing your good time.
You either stop trying or try something different!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I find the iTrials to be an uninteresting hassle, which is more than enough reason for me to not incarnate. That said, I often find myself hating the pre25-ish levels for similar reasons as you gave for being burnt out on low level content. And it seems to be tougher for me to get through those low levels these days since the invites don't roll in on my pre-50 characters the way they used to before the iTrials existed.
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Originally Posted by Nyx
There is no reason to not incarnate.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Ok..I can see that.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I find the iTrials to be an uninteresting hassle, which is more than enough reason for me to not incarnate. That said, I often find myself hating the pre25-ish levels for similar reasons as you gave for being burnt out on low level content. And it seems to be tougher for me to get through those low levels these days since the invites don't roll in on my pre-50 characters the way they used to before the iTrials existed.
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I am experimenting now as we speak with some options.
One of the other posters nailed it on the head...
I think Im just a touch grinded out...which sadly I have been doing to myself and it's not the games fault.
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I'm not sure there's much I can say that would help you there, then. As I said before, games are inherently wasteful and achievements in them don't really matter. Animals play games to learn the basic skills of survival, but it is applying those skills for real that accomplishes anything. Humans, for the most part, play games to have fun. If you had fun, that's all that matters. Trying to look for something in a game that makes you feel proud strikes me as a futile search, as there really isn't anything in gaming to be proud of. By their very nature, they are not productive.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I want to play a game in which there is a reward, whether being a casual gamer or hardcore, that when I achieve makes me feel epic...not better, but proud! (Epic does not mean power to me, Epic can be playing DnD and finding a +2 dagger of venom and frothing at the mouth with delight)
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I suppose if you really want something to take pride in, you should look at artistic achievement. This is the one solitary piece of gaming that has an out-of-game achievement potential to it. A game comes with rules, and playing the game within its rules to its very end is not much different than watching a movie all the way through. However, creating a work of art within the confines of the game can and often does transcend the simple experience of going through the motion and gives you an idea that's more valuable than just the medium which spawned it.
When I say "artistic achievement," I mean great costumes, great character stories or even great architect arcs. I'm talking about creating something which is not just an experience of your own, but something you can share with other people and in so doing affect them, even if it's in some small way. I have a scant few characters that, when I've shown them to people, they have inspired creativity in others. To me, that's something to be proud of because it's something more than just entertaining myself. It's entertaining and enriching others, and that IS an achievement.
However, what you describe strikes me less as search for something that makes you feel epic and more a case of burnout and boredom. I've been there before. The one time when I was seriously going to quit City of Heroes, as a point of fact, and missed two months of subscription back in September to November of 2004. When you find yourself forcing yourself to play something that you don't find fun, but constantly keep telling yourself that if you just reached this milestone or earned that reward then the game will suddenly stop being so unfun, that if you suffer just a little longer, things will be better. The sad truth is that they never are. If you have to bribe yourself to continue playing, you're doing it wrong.
I don't really know what solution to offer you here. What works for me is either returning to an old character or making a new one. And a character who's more than just a combo of powersets, but a character with a fleshed-out story and personality, someone whom I can look at and go "I'd like to see a movie about this character!" I'm not sure what could work for you, but variety and comfort are your only sanctuary. Look at adding variety in your game. Play characters you didn't think you wanted to, change up your play style and, if all else fails, play other games. Even a simple break of a couple of days playing something else makes a difference. Also, look into your playstyle and try to pinpoint the things that bug you. Then, just try to play without doing them. Doesn't matter the practical consequences - just try to avoid the things you don't like and see if you can't be happier that way. Don't like playing Incarnate farms? Don't. Try it out for a while.
In the end, again, there really is no real solution to these kinds of problems. I can, at best, point you in the direction of what I think the problem is - burnout and you torturing yourself with activities you don't like - but the solution is something you'll have to find for yourself. Because, all things considered, each person is different and unique in his or her own way, and so no solution will work for all, or even most people. You need to do a bit of soul-searching and find your own answers in this case, because only you can know what works for your personality.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I find the iTrials to be an uninteresting hassle, which is more than enough reason for me to not incarnate. That said, I often find myself hating the pre25-ish levels for similar reasons as you gave for being burnt out on low level content. And it seems to be tougher for me to get through those low levels these days since the invites don't roll in on my pre-50 characters the way they used to before the iTrials existed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Take a break, or drastically change the way you play, either by doing the hardcore thing, or just trying out a completely different playstyle.
Try a big game hunter, or a massive aoe death machine, or something melee if you are predominately ranged. Even if they are incarnated up, the playstyle will be drastically different.
That said, if you are logging in, and just can't pick out what to play, or figure out something fun to roll because the wall of meh is in the way, take a break and read a book or something. The itch to play again will happen sooner rather than later.
2 being redside, and one being blue. I solo or team them all, and do not farm any of my characters, nor do I intend too do that. Mainly because I know where the destination leads. There is absolutely no reason to rush it, but on that same token, there is also the fact that others are having the same issue where, they have an incarnate with all the bells and whistles. Then they go to something where they can sense that grind happening again, or forsee it.
Am I telling people to AE farm? No...in my first statement I did state that it was one of the reasons I left the game in the first place when it was introduced, so I am not it's biggest fan.
But mentioning farming is one thing, but running 32 bafs a day seems no different than frams we have had previously in the AE building...only the rewards are actually greater.
I thought I would address your statement, because the dilema I am having is with the balance of power, vs the absence of having it.
This is just my personal oppinion as well, but something others have agreed with me on, or felt was effecting the gameplay experience they used to have when making alts etc.