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Are there any numbers for ax yet?
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
You know what, while we're at it: Anyone going to make a Battle Axe/* Scrapper? I've got an idea for a BA/FA character, but that's about it.
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Currently playing on a +0/x8 Rikti mission with a SO only build using T4 Spiritual Alpha. It's seriously a ton of fun - WM/SD is an AoE powerhouse! 
I can get you the Axe numbers in a moment. It is open beta so anyone has access to em'.
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The truly awesome sauce thing about Shatter, unless it got changed in the port over, is that it has a relatively wide cone (30 deg?) compared to Headsplitter / GD. I routinely hit 3 mobs with it on my WM/SR brute without much positioning at all. So you can have a really great AOE chain of Shatter, CC, Whirling Mace.
Shatter is 45 degree Cone. I was using Shatter, Crowd Control, and Whirling Mace to wipe out groups of enemies. Incredibly fun and I am glad to welcome War Mace to the Scrapper repertoire! This is a strong set that will quickly be a favorite for many-a-Scrapper!
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Battle Axe:
Code:Beheader Damage Per Activation Time: 47.04 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 11.74 Chop Damage Per Activation Time: 77.14 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 11.00 Gash Damage Per Activation Time: 81.75 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.66 Swoop Damage Per Activation Time: 77.95 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.31 Whirling Axe Damage Per Activation Time: 23.43 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 3.75 Cleave Damage Per Activation Time: 74.11 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 9.96 Pendulum Damage Per Activation Time: 59.43 Damage Per Cast Cycle: 6.99
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The reason I want to make a Battle Axe/Fiery Aura character is because of all the Knock Down that Battle Axe provides. That extra Damage mitigation will come in handy.
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I will be rerolling my WM/SD Brute into a WM/SD Scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Would you say that WM is definitely better on scrappers than brutes, from what you've seen? Even if you haven't played it on brutes, I assume you have a pretty good understanding of what it's like.
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Paired with SD there is simply no reason to play the Brute version, this goes for any set you can pair with SD, not just WM.
Getting Clobber at Level 8 on a Scrapper is just cheating.
This is going to be one of the greats, listed near the top amongst Scrapper favorites!
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The first rule of Clobber (since it was buffed several issues back) is don't talk about Clobber ....
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Correct, it does not. That screen predates Arcanatime or I would have tried to sneak it in there. Arcanatime is also sort of unofficial: it tends to work, and there is a good theory to explain why it works, but its not a 100% perfect description of reality, which would require further delving into the game systems to untangle.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I think the in-game DPA does not factor in Arcanatime.
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Hmmm....
So, is my memory bad, or is clobber really 40 dpa better than the next best dpa attack?
Also, smashing! Feer me, robots! FEER ME.
bs/sd may have just been replaced.
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Wouldn't that be a description of a virtual reality? |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
but its not a 100% perfect description of reality, which would require further delving into the game systems to untangle.
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Har har. |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Wouldn't that be a description of a virtual reality?
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Decisions, decisions. Do I go wm/ea? Some of the changes to /Ea look awesome. Especially the +recharge, to help bring some of the slow attacks back quicker. Or do I go with the wm/sd option, for all f that ludicrous damage? Ah, decisions, decisions.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
I played around a bit with WM in beta the other day and I will concur that it is going to be a force to recon with as a scrapper set. When the attacks crits it is just plan nasty (I'm looking at you clobber). The set will require tons of recharge so I am torn as to what secondary to take with it once it goes live. I have plenty of SR toons as well as SD. I too was looking at EA with the changes, however for some reason I want to roll an invulnerable scrapper. Anyone have any advice on invul on scrappers I have heard it is garbage, but I like to prove the masses wrong.
I'm definitely taking the Spiritual Alpha for War Mace, that's for sure.
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I'm having the same dilemma. /EA will have the option of going with something other than Body Mastery & then going Musc or Spiritual while /SD will probably be pigeonholed into either Body or Cardiac, while not having a self heal but having insane amounts of damage and no +recharge.
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Originally Posted by Gobbledygook
Decisions, decisions. Do I go wm/ea? Some of the changes to /Ea look awesome. Especially the +recharge, to help bring some of the slow attacks back quicker. Or do I go with the wm/sd option, for all f that ludicrous damage? Ah, decisions, decisions.
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Originally Posted by Murdok
Your mom's real name is Castle.
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Using the numbers you posted, and without verifying them in beta since I had to patch last night. I reverse calculated to find the base damage and to replicate your numbers based on known activation, recharge, and endurance from the live brute versions.
Code:
~180dps ST for both WM and BA for scrapperIO Build, Spiritual Core Paragon, 17.5 Global Damage Bonus, 120% Global Recharge 82% Fury Dam Procs Rech End Crushing Impact 2.158x +14.36 /3.120 /1.477 Mako's Bite 2.111x +14.36 /3.300 /1.663 Oblits (PBAoE) 2.138x +14.36 /3.460 /1.186
~190 with Glad -res, since it's hard to leverage long term without fast repeating attacks.
~210dps ST for WM as a Brute, no -res needed.
~220dps ST for WM as a brute with Glad -res, again it's hard to leverage long term without fast repeating attacks.
On average the sets should be even at ~82% fury, it seems it's been slightly nerfed in the conversion, but I will double check the numbers later. Unless you want to repost the numbers here for me. Base damage, Base Recharge, Base Endurance, Base Activation (specify if it includes or excludes arcanatime)
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In my experience, for WM/SD/Body (or energy, as it was in the case with my brute) - you will most likely want to go Cardiac.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
I'm definitely taking the Spiritual Alpha for War Mace, that's for sure.
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The endurance use is pretty heavy for this set, and you will most likely end up with at least 1 or 2 Obliteration sets for Melee DEF in the PBAoEs.
Play with it, you might have a different take on the build - but that's my advice from playing it.
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Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
IO Build, Spiritual Core Paragon, 17.5 Global Damage Bonus, 120% Global Recharge
On average the sets should be even at ~82% fury, it seems it's been slightly nerfed in the conversion, but I will double check the numbers later. Unless you want to repost the numbers here for me. Base damage, Base Recharge, Base Endurance, Base Activation (specify if it includes or excludes arcanatime) |
Unless you are soloing and are under optimal conditions, 82% Fury is a fantasy for a Warmace Brute (I can do it in the AE with ambush heavy missions, in fact I can reach 90% with a claws brute under those conditions).
I have about a half dozen mid/high to top end brute builds and my WM/SD consistently comes out at the bottom for Fury generation.
On teams/trials, for the average player, 60-75% is the more likely range for Fury generation.
WM is a slow set overall, and ST chaining something like Shatter doesn't help.
82% Fury? Yeesh. I can never get that under normal playing conditions.
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67% Fury is dead even for War Mace with the numbers and the IO Build above. However, I'm almost certain I've calculated other sets in the past and the break even was 82%. Either I've mis-remembered, those sets are overpowered as brutes, or this set is underpowered as a scrapper. Once this goes live I may re-run spread sheets and charts for all the melee sets scrapper vs brute.
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Also keep in mind AAO. This is the main reason I will reboot as a Scrapper, as it will easily see the Scrapper pull far ahead. The other will be critcal hits with Crowd Control and Clobber, which should be pretty nuts.|
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
67% Fury is dead even for War Mace with the numbers and the IO Build above. However, I'm almost certain I've calculated other sets in the past and the break even was 82%. Either I've mis-remembered, those sets are overpowered as brutes, or this set is underpowered as a scrapper. Once this goes live I may re-run spread sheets and charts for all the melee sets scrapper vs brute.
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Let me know if you do those calculations, I'd love to see them. One thing to definitely take under consideration is crits should be calculated at 10% (or 15% for the select T9s that get that).
I don't know if the source numbers included crits or not, so I didn't include them. If they did not include crits, did not include arcana time, etc ... Then since this is dpa over the long term averaging bonuses, you should be able to simply multiply by 1.10x for the answer.
1.1x for crits would put you right back at 200 dps, or very close to the higher end number for Brutes.
This was all based on an FA build, so SD would futher leverage the scrapper numbers and likely end up ....
Saturated AoA on WM/SD scrapper with crits ~= 260 ST dps on the above referenced build parameters and assuming the numbers posted on the first page do NOT include crits. Saturated DM/SD is over 300 for comparison. I don't recall the exact number.
However, with a cost of -4.1 eps and a recovery of (+3.68 - 1.25 = +2.43) net endurance is -1.67 for a burn time of 70s. Without any form of endurance recovery tools, you're gonna see problems. So if you stick to Spiritual, you'll almost have to take Ageless +recovery, which means no rebirth, which means no healing other than green candy. That's not really a spot I'd like to be in, Stuck between needing Green to stay alive long term or blue to keep fighting long term. Which is why I stuck in on a /FA for comparison, and to further leverage AoE with Burn complimenting the 3 WM AoEs. Alternately I'd stick it on /ELA, or /ENA. i21 /ENA is looking pretty, but I really like the AoE in /FA, and I like the T9 availability of /ELA along with it's damage aura. I did not include the damage auras in the calculations, but I did include burn if it's ST dpa warranted, but I think that only applied to BA.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hnQ0E&hl=en_US
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I can say with certainty that my WM/SR brute absolutely burned endurance and had serious problems til the Power epic with the 2 endo powers. Maybe it's easier for Scraps with conserve power. But there is an argument perhaps to go Cardiac?|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
I'm definitely taking the Spiritual Alpha for War Mace, that's for sure.
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I guess it depends on the recharge needed for what the gurus here figure out the top DPS chain is. I know chaining the AOES -- Shatter, CC, Whirling -- absolutely kills the blue bar.
Jawbreaker, Clobber, and Shatter is the next best I think. 257% and 250% for Clobber and Shatter.
That first chain should put it easily with FM, if not better. Can't wait to see the set in action.
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