Hero vs Villain Epics
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-08-04 10:47 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
You are supposed to be able to do the morality on the 2nd day as soon as your fame bar fills (although sometimes I've found it wouldn't drop for a long time so I waited another day).
And no the devs haven't said anything about changing this.
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Huh? If you choose to be a villain in the tutorial, does this not dump you in the Rogue Isles afterwards? No side switching needed for villain epics.
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
Has anybody heard if the devs are planning changing the way you can access the villain epics in the next issue? It seems that if you can choose villain out of the tutorial it would come as a disappointment to many players that later on they have to switch sides temporarily just to get access to the villain epics.
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Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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... except you don't have to wait a day to run the morality mission.
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
I know lots of people argue its not that hard to do, but at a minimum it takes a minimum of 5 days to switch sides completely. Day 1 - 5 Alignment Missions, Day 2 - 5 More Alignment Missions, Day 3 - Morality Mission,
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Well since all ATs (except EATs) have equal access (APPs immediately, PPPs if you are villain alignment) I doubt they are planning to make changes. Now I'd like it if they changed it but I'm not expecting them to do so.|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
Has anybody heard if the devs are planning changing the way you can access the villain epics in the next issue?
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I've seen the idea of a Hero themed PPP before and that is one option but in many ways I'd just like to see more APPs for all ATs.
Ok so 4 days.. For some reason I thought you had to wait for one of your bulbs to be empty to run the morality. Either way if you come out on hero side, its still a PITA to go over and come back.
I only mention it because I am dealing with it as we speak with my demons / therm MM. I just got done bringing it to hero side and now I discover the EPICs on hero side stink so I have to go back. It just seems like an unnecessary barrier. I know the villain epics are tied to a story, but it just seems really unfair for heroes.
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I would also settle for hero themed PPPs.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well since all ATs (except EATs) have equal access (APPs immediately, PPPs if you are villain alignment) I doubt they are planning to make changes. Now I'd like it if they changed it but I'm not expecting them to do so.
I've seen the idea of a Hero themed PPP before and that is one option but in many ways I'd just like to see more APPs for all ATs. |
You can switch in 3 days.
Do 5 tips, wait 1 day, do 5 tips+ morality. Wait 1 day, do 5 tips, wait 1 day do 5 tips+ morality. Assuming you play at the same time each day, you can switch sides in 72 hours after you start the first tip. Then double that plus 1 more day of waiting to get back for 7 days round trip.
I also would prefer a ppp equivalent on hero side
I'd like to see a heroic arc where you battle your choice of Arachnos Patron and are awarded some of their powers (i.e., unlocking Patron Pools) for defeating them in the end. Perhaps the infusion of power is granted through the malfunction of one of Dr. Aeon's devices? *scratches chin*
... Huh. I think I just got inspired to write something for the Mission Architect.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Unfair was not being able to get the other side's epic pools at all. Sure, we could say it's technically still not quite 100% fair to require the arc for access to villain pools and not hero pools, but... meh. I tend not to care about pushing the devs to fix things I can easily enough fix myself. I've got bigger fish I'd rather have them frying.
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
I only mention it because I am dealing with it as we speak with my demons / therm MM. I just got done bringing it to hero side and now I discover the EPICs on hero side stink so I have to go back. It just seems like an unnecessary barrier. I know the villain epics are tied to a story, but it just seems really unfair for heroes.
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Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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As a side note (having recently done this on a few characters) while you are there consider picking up some Accolade powers. Demonic is a lot easier to get than Archmage and having it will automatically award you Archmage when you switch back. Born in Battle is also potentially worth getting if you already have Adamant/Ironman. Invader and Force of Nature are technically easier to get than their Hero equivalent if you do Mayhem missions while leveling up but probably not worth it if you didn't. Marshal I would say is harder than Atlas Medallion while High Pain Threshold and Megalomaniac are about the same on both sides (yes, I find killing 1000 Rikti Monkeys to be about the same effort as killing 200 Shivans).
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
I only mention it because I am dealing with it as we speak with my demons / therm MM. I just got done bringing it to hero side and now I discover the EPICs on hero side stink so I have to go back. It just seems like an unnecessary barrier. I know the villain epics are tied to a story, but it just seems really unfair for heroes.
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Still 4 days. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
You can switch in 3 days.
Do 5 tips, wait 1 day, do 5 tips+ morality. Wait 1 day, do 5 tips, wait 1 day do 5 tips+ morality. Assuming you play at the same time each day, you can switch sides in 72 hours after you start the first tip. Then double that plus 1 more day of waiting to get back for 7 days round trip. I also would prefer a ppp equivalent on hero side |
Unless I am severely missing something.
Day One: 5
Day Two: 5+Morality
Day Three: 5
Day Four: 5+Morality
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In terms of elapsed time, that's 3 days. It takes 1 day to get to day two, another day to get to day three, and a 3rd day to get to day four. It's like how on Monday it's three days til Thursday - you don't have to go through Thursday itself (the 4th day), just get there.
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Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
Still 4 days.
Unless I am severely missing something. Day One: 5 Day Two: 5+Morality Day Three: 5 Day Four: 5+Morality |
I don't understand why people would want to keep this flawed system and continue it with Hero PPPs. They need to just make the Patron Powers accessible at level 40 without forcing you to run the story arc. You can already respec into another Patron's powers without having to run their arc. Might as well just unlock them for all and not tie these specific powers to in game lore.
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Your numbers there show you spending a whole 24 hours doing the first 5 tip missions (or 24 hours on the last 5+1 depending how you look at it). Really you do them in a couple hours, then 20 hours later you are already on the next 5.|
Originally Posted by Atomic_Toy_Guy
Still 4 days.
Unless I am severely missing something. Day One: 5 Day Two: 5+Morality Day Three: 5 Day Four: 5+Morality |
Basically the waiting timer starts after you have beat the first tip and ends when you beat the last morality. ~72 hours or 3 days from the moment you start the first tip.
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By that same argument, I could say it only takes four hours to switch between Hero and Villain, because I don't have to be playing the game during the cooldown times. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Your numbers there show you spending a whole 24 hours doing the first 5 tip missions. Really you do them in a couple hours, then 20 hours later you are already on the next 5.
Basically the waiting timer starts after you have beat the first 5 tips. |
You're arguing pure semantics here; you say three days, other people say four days, but you all mean the same thing... you're just not counting the first day, when most people do.
The point is, it takes about four* calendar days to fully switch from Hero to Villain. You do your first 5 on Monday, second 5 + Vigilante Morality on Tuesday, third 5 on Wednesday and the last 5 + Villain Morality on Thursday.
* Unless you have an unlimited time to play, no social/occupational obligations and can jump on exactly 20 hours after your tips cool down... in which case you could have everything done in a little more than 60 hours.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Precisely, I am counting days that I spend playing. I only get to spend about 2-3hrs a night 3-4 days a week in the first place playing this game. Basically just enough time to get my 5 tips done. Knowing that I basically have a week of "work" just to get access to something that I should be able to get from either side irks me. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
By that same argument, I could say it only takes four hours to switch between Hero and Villain, because I don't have to be playing the game during the cooldown times.
You're arguing pure semantics here; you say three days, other people say four days, but you all mean the same thing... you're just not counting the first day, when most people do. The point is, it takes about four* calendar days to fully switch from Hero to Villain. You do your first 5 on Monday, second 5 + Vigilante Morality on Tuesday, third 5 on Wednesday and the last 5 + Villain Morality on Thursday. * Unless you have an unlimited time to play, no social/occupational obligations and can jump on exactly 20 hours after your tips cool down... in which case you could have everything done in a little more than 60 hours. |
It makes me wish I had the devotion to this game I used to playing 30+ hours a week. But alas life has other plans.
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I edited my post while you were typing, but its close enough. The way I look at it, for the whole 4th day (after 72 hours) you can play as the desired alignment. Takes 3 days to get there, but yeah it is semantics /perspective. If you start Mon morning, thurs morning you are done and thrashing heroes the rest of the day.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
By that same argument, I could say it only takes four hours to switch between Hero and Villain, because I don't have to be playing the game during the cooldown times.
You're arguing pure semantics here; you say three days, other people say four days, but you all mean the same thing... you're just not counting the first day, when most people do. The point is, it takes about four* calendar days to fully switch from Hero to Villain. You do your first 5 on Monday, second 5 + Vigilante Morality on Tuesday, third 5 on Wednesday and the last 5 + Villain Morality on Thursday. * Unless you have an unlimited time to play, no social/occupational obligations and can jump on exactly 20 hours after your tips cool down... in which case you could have everything done in a little more than 60 hours. |
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Not that I care if they do or don't, but what exactly would be "flawed" about requiring a story arc to unlock epic pools?
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
I don't understand why people would want to keep this flawed system and continue it with Hero PPPs.
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Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Easiest way to fix that flaw is to not allow a respec into a different PPP, the way the used to do it. Maybe make a level 50 or 45-50 contact that will let you forsake your previous choice in order to run a different Patrons arc, and at that point get the respec and be locked into the choice, unless you talk to the aforementioned contact yet again.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I don't understand why people would want to keep this flawed system and continue it with Hero PPPs. They need to just make the Patron Powers accessible at level 40 without forcing you to run the story arc. You can already respec into another Patron's powers without having to run their arc. Might as well just unlock them for all and not tie these specific powers to in game lore.
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I'd love for a system like that to be added heroside for heroic PPPs. But, barring that obvious logic hole, any heroic PPP with an attached arc would be nice.
I wouldnt mind getting hero patron pools, but I'm fine with the hassle of having to go redside for villian patron pools.
Fits thier theme imo.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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I agree. Want the toys from the RI? Gotta go get/earn them.
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I wouldnt mind getting hero patron pools, but I'm fine with the hassle of having to go redside for villian patron pools.
Fits thier theme imo. |
I am also of the opinion we should be able to get the Patron Powers from the hero side just to avoid the aggravation of having to wait four days (I do have work) just cause you want Soul/Mu/Mace/Lev Mastery. I also think they should STILL be tied to an arc. I would propose that this arc be delivered by one of four Freedom Phalanx members ; Synapse, Positron, Manticore or Sister Psyche as suggestions, and would have your character infiltrate the Rouge Isles on a recon/infiltration mission. Each FP member would be responsible for getting info on one of Lord Recluse's generals. At the end of the arc you would fight said general and gain information about their particular mastery powers, letting you use them for your own. Of course unlocking one will unlock all of them for you. This way you can nab the Patron Pool Powers, run a cool arc and not have to leave Paragon City if you don't need to.
I think PPPs should be a redside only thing. Heck, it's one of the only "advantages" there is to playing redside rather than blue.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
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Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
I think it's silly that everyone so far is approaching the alignment system all wrong for this "problem".
If you know that you're going to be taking Villain Epics, or even think it's possible, you switch over to Rogue while you're leveling, then do 10 villain tips (switching to villain is not necessary at this point. As long as you don't do a Morality Mission, those 10 villain points will sit there forever). Once you're 40 or higher, do your villain morality mission and 5 Rogue tips, then do your Patron arc. Next day, do 5 more Rogue tips and your Rogue alignment mission, and head back to the blue side. Do Hero tips for the next 2 days while playing TFs, Scanner missions, or other peoples' missions.
Total time spent "stuck" with villain only content: 2 days.
Total time spent switching sides: 4 days, plus a few extra missions during the leveling process.
@Roderick
Has anybody heard if the devs are planning changing the way you can access the villain epics in the next issue? It seems that if you can choose villain out of the tutorial it would come as a disappointment to many players that later on they have to switch sides temporarily just to get access to the villain epics.
I know lots of people argue its not that hard to do, but at a minimum it takes a minimum of 5 days to switch sides completely. Day 1 - 5 Alignment Missions, Day 2 - 5 More Alignment Missions, Day 3 - Morality Mission, and then Back again. Kinda of a PITA, thats not even counting the time it takes to run the dang arc.
I would much rather see those arcs grant a badge and an accolade power, rather then access to what is for some archtypes the best Epic pools available. I mean heck the Master Minds can't even get a Shield in all but one epic pool on hero side.