Underwhelmed by AT specific IOs


Aura_Familia

 

Posted

Screenies gleaned from a Victory thread here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...+costume+slots


First of all, brute, increased health, decent, increased recharge, excellent

defense, resist and damage, however, might as well not be there for the impact this set would make...and the bonuses, save for the recharge, are no better than mid level IO set bonuses anyway

really, +End, +Recovery and +Regen would have been better



dominator, gets recharge and accuracy, everything else here is rather blah

the bonus acc and rec though, are nicely high



Tanker, health and recharge again....everything else is meh...would much rather have see +End, +Rec, +Taunt or +Regen



I like the idea of a range set bonus, but given the ONLY set bonus that increases range is this one, I have to say that it should be a higher number to be useful

accuracy and recharge, good again, much everything else is blah, though at least you can add in that dam bonus to other dam bonuses...still, isn't anything more than what you could do with normal IOs



like a blaster but they took the acc bonus?? why???



almost exactly the same dominator...acc, recharge is good....everything else is meh


the attuned thing is nice, if you're lucky enough to get them before level 15-20, otherwise, that's also somewhat meh

the procs look promising, but I'm reminded of the chance for self-heal proc that never goes off and the fact that most procs have deliberately mediocre performance in addition to being rare to go off...

describing the stats to my brother, who is much more into number crunching and build design than I am, his response was "ker toss"

really, unless the basic enhancement is much higher than a normal enhancement for its level, or those procs happen more often or with greater effectiveness or both...then these sets are rather blah

it isn't quite the "dart board" selection method of set bonuses we see in the majority of IOS (ie, it looks like set-bonuses were chosen by throwing darts at a labeled board) but it's still mediocre


Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

Yeah, really; I see higher numbers on my Frankenslotted IOs.


 

Posted

Yet they'll *always* be even-level to you, if you read more than just the set bonuses. With their effectiveness increasing as you level. They're going to have a tradeoff for that. And increased fury generation? Increased resistance?

Interesting concept.


 

Posted

SOA's?

Kelds?

TBH tho I would rather have more Targeted AOE sets, and Purple sets for the categorys that don't have them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Yet they'll *always* be even-level to you, if you read more than just the set bonuses. With their effectiveness increasing as you level. They're going to have a tradeoff for that. And increased fury generation? Increased resistance?

Interesting concept.
I did read more than the set bonuses....but until I know more about the procs and what the numbers here compare to numbers on other IOs....I'm not going to be enthused

it is an interested concept and one I've had before...but what it looks like now is a mid-range IO set with unique and "Account based" slapped on it to prevent the players from filling up everything with them and/or selling them....

right now the only really interesting thing about them is that they go up in level with you and that's only interesting to me if they turn out to be common enough that I can slot them all in one power by the time I hit mid teens

I'm just not sure the "Attunement" thing equals "Unique" and "Account Based"


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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

I don't think the ranged sets are all that bad.

Look at the popular Thunderstrike set.

However, these are all unique IOs (like the Purple Sets) and I would like to see some changes to them.

First off, all defense bonuses, I would like to see wrapped up into a flat 3% Defense across the board, especially on the range ATs. Blasters get into melee (look at their secondary) and I know my Dual Pistol users get into melee.

Same with Resist bonuses. 3-5% across the board.

I'm pretty fine with the range bonus, but that's because I'm not worried about it either. Though bumping it to 10%, but that's my Mr Monk kicking in on bonuses I don't think will make that big of a difference (I could be wrong on this though).

Same goes for duration on Mez's, like the range bonus.

I'd love to see a +5% Increase on Damage for Tankers, as I just feel when playing them, they could use all the +dmg they can get.

On the blaster set, I'd like to see something a bit different, but that suggestion may be to powerful.

Remove the +DMG, move all the other bonuses down, and then add in +2-3 Mez Protection.

I'd love to see it on the Corrs as well (and Defenders), as a small but still easily beatable mez protection, but that's because I don't think much of the +DMG bonus myself, when one AT is heavy damage, and the other two have debuffs to increase their damage.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight View Post
SOA's?

Kelds?

TBH tho I would rather have more Targeted AOE sets, and Purple sets for the categorys that don't have them.
These can't go into Targeted AOE powers?

These looked like they could go into any power that does damage, but limited to ATs.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

I wouldn't be complaining about it terribly if it weren't for the unique/account based bits

the only thing attunement does for you is save influence and that's relatively easy to get a hold of...

most of the procs are nothing special....I have no idea how the fury bonus will work

having chance for type-damage I'm ambivalent about..I have controllers that have nothing psychic at all about them, and blasters that are the opposite of fire....would prefer have other proc chances in there

also procs in single target attacks are somewhat unreliable....

all in all...barring some revelation about the procs being better or the base numbers being higher, like say instead of getting +18% at level 37 on a split-three enhancement, you get +22%...or if it ignored a percentage of ED

then it's not something I'm going out of my way to get or pay for

if it is incredibly easy to get, however, I wouldn't mind slotting them...

it's just that it seems like a good concept which they did poor execution on

(also, would prefer to power-based IOs....for example, a set based around fire-users or dark-users)


Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

Unless I'm mistaken, they're only account based because they're store items, aren't they? So they kind of have to be account based, or the markets will lead to them being direct conversions of cash -> influence thanks to the markets.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Yet they'll *always* be even-level to you, if you read more than just the set bonuses. With their effectiveness increasing as you level. They're going to have a tradeoff for that.
The even level part comes with all purchased enhancements. If you buy a set of Thunderstrike from the store, it'll always be even level (but you won't be able to slot it until level 27). The set is otherwise functionally identical to the invention set Thunderstrike.

I have to disagree with the analysis of the set bonuses though.

2.5 Smashing/Lethal defense is really nice to have on Brutes, especially since it's a set with a recharge bonus too. There is no other melee set that gives defense and recharge. Every one of those set bonuses is more useful than 1.77% immobilization resistance, for example.

The Tanker set, well, it's my experience that the +1.88% health bonuses are pretty easy to get, and so another set with the same bonus isn't going to be terribly helpful. Smashing/lethal resistance isn't helpful to Major Decoy, but it could be nice for my Electric Armour tanker. It wouldn't hurt to have a larger bonus though. The Psionic and Toxic resistance offered doesn't seem to be terribly helpful either. Again, every bonus is better than % status resistance.

Really, how do you decide which bonuses are useful and which aren't?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, they're only account based because they're store items, aren't they? So they kind of have to be account based, or the markets will lead to them being direct conversions of cash -> influence thanks to the markets.
yeah, account-based is there specifically so you can't sell them, hadn't heard if these were pay-for items or not

I certainly wouldn't pay money for them, can tell you that...

it does say any damage power or control power etc

makes me wonder...because procs in AoEs and passives actually usually are worth it....if I put the chance for Res(all) in an AoE, would it proc off of each target or off power activation

if Chance for REs(all) procs off activation, it'll be pretty much worthless since it won't go off often enough to really matter...if it procs off targets the way damage procs do, then would I get multiple increased res for multiple targets?

I am reminded, again, of the sleep proc "chance for self heal" that I put in frozen aura on an ice tank and which never went off even once in 2-3 years of having it slotted.


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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
However, these are all unique IOs (like the Purple Sets) and I would like to see some changes to them.
Yes, they are unique, but they're also purchased items (or so I believe because it looks like they have the same border as the set I purchased at Comic Con).

As purchased items, they should be nice, but they shouldn't be awesome. They shouldn't be as good as purples.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanus View Post
I certainly wouldn't pay money for them, can tell you that...
Well, I s'pose the idea is that different people would want to buy different things.
Speaking personally, I admit I might, if the price was right. And by right...maybe like 100 points/set? I'm sure they'll end up being higher than that, though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, they're only account based because they're store items, aren't they? So they kind of have to be account based, or the markets will lead to them being direct conversions of cash -> influence thanks to the markets.
If they're account bound, and bought through the store, and have the changes I mentioned, I'd consider buying a set for each character.

As it is with the current bonuses, I'd have to take it on a case by case basis, and this is with the thought that the set bonuses are always active.

Like the dominator and troller sets, I may not be interrested in, and could just go use other sets I don't need to pay actual money for (not that the +RCH isn't nice it is, but that's one bonus).

Still all wait and see. Out of all my suggestions I do hope the Defense and Resistance changes happen, so it doesn't limit one to trying to stay at range for power sets that like to get up close, and we could just use some more +resist period.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

From what I see I'm okay with the blaster set. I can sub it in on my main character to boost my recharge by just a little bit putting me at about 3-4% off of permahasten while maintaining my current 81% above ED or 181% damage powers and get a range boost. Actually I'm more than okay with it. Its almost like that set was tailor made for my main.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Speaking personally, I admit I might, if the price was right. And by right...maybe like 100 points/set? I'm sure they'll end up being higher than that, though.
If I remember correctly, Thunderstrike was 100 points/enhancement, or 480 points for the whole set.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Yes, they are unique, but they're also purchased items (or so I believe because it looks like they have the same border as the set I purchased at Comic Con).

As purchased items, they should be nice, but they shouldn't be awesome. They shouldn't be as good as purples.
Hmmm...I don't know. Paying real money for them and all.

I'm not saying have them give the +15% ACC or +10% RCH. So those would stay lower.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
If I remember correctly, Thunderstrike was 100 points/enhancement, or 480 points for the whole set.
Hmmm, at $6/set, yeah, in that case, doubt I'll be buying them, either. The Brute set is nice, but I don't have any Brutes I care enough about to twink to that level, if there's a real cost associated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post

Really, how do you decide which bonuses are useful and which aren't?
Recharge, Acc, End and Recovery are useful to most classes

Health and Regen is generally only useful if you have high health or regen to start

Defense is mostly useful if you can stack a lot of it together or if you already have a fair amount of Defense in your powers to begin with....3% defense to one specific attack type is statistically insignificant...BrandX is right, it should be a flat defense bonus to all types of attack, not just one type...

Resistance is even less useful because there's less of it out there to build on...it takes too much effort to get a statistically significant amount of resist out of set-bonuses...if you have a resist heavy set, then it really doesn't add that much, if you have very little resist, then it really doesn't add that much...

Damage bonuses are like candy, they taste good but have no substance, an extra 2-3% damage isn't all that useful, even a standing 15% increase isn't enough to bother going to the expense that getting all the necessary set recipes would require...

Status resist, as someone noted, is worthless

increased control duration is like damage bonuses, sounds good in theory, but doesn't add enough to really make a difference.

look for acc, recharge, recovery, health, regen and end....if you have a set with a specific hole in its defense, then look at defense (which is why Kinetic Combat is popular right now, it fills a hole in S/L defense), but unless you only have one hole, you're not going to be able to focus enough to actually fill it....and forget about resist...as said, not enough out there and what is there is largely too hard to get to make what you'd lose worth it.


Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
The even level part comes with all purchased enhancements. If you buy a set of Thunderstrike from the store, it'll always be even level (but you won't be able to slot it until level 27). The set is otherwise functionally identical to the invention set Thunderstrike.
Um... no, they don't.

If you buy a set of level 30 thunderstrikes, they maintain level 30 values. (Making up numbers, if they're 20% acc/20% damage at level 27 when you slot them, they'll still be 20%/20% at level 50. They don't increase in effect, they just don't expire.)

These, if you slot at 30, give level 30 values from what I'm reading - then level 31 when you go up a level, level 32 values after that, etc. They're getting more powerful as you level.

(Unless you're talking external store, in which case I still doubt it unless there are specific 'character bound' ones as well when you DO buy them from there. Have we had specific (and non-beta-NDA'd) word on that?)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Hmmm, at $6/set, yeah, in that case, doubt I'll be buying them, either. The Brute set is nice, but I don't have any Brutes I care enough about to twink to that level, if there's a real cost associated.
Is the 8.75% stackable to 5? Cause if it is some of my toons WILL be getting these.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Is the 8.75% stackable to 5? Cause if it is some of my toons WILL be getting these.
Given that they're unique enhancements, I doubt you'll be able to stack them unless there's some other new sets out there, too.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Is the 8.75% stackable to 5? Cause if it is some of my toons WILL be getting these.
yes, it is, you can have 5 5%'s, 5 8.75% (if more than this exist) and 5 7.5%

you can get some truly massive recharge bonuses...which is why I said the recharge on these sets is excellent


the increasing as you level thing almost made me drool too....then I got a look at what the sets were, compared to performance of other sets I've seen and suddenly everything was "meh"


Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanus View Post
Damage bonuses are like candy, they taste good but have no substance, an extra 2-3% damage isn't all that useful, even a standing 15% increase isn't enough to bother going to the expense that getting all the necessary set recipes would require...
Gotta agree and disagree with this statement. 2-3% isnt all that useful but when you build for it you can reach some ridiculous amounts of power. For example a full breakdown of my blaster's extra damage. He has 40.5% from set bonuses, 10.5% from assault, and 30% from musculature core paragon. 81% extra damage on all powers does in fact have substance.


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