Petition to remove AE from Atlas Park
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2011-07-19 09:02 in Suggestions and Ideas
Pretty sure the "first zone" they'll be seeing is the Galaxy City under attack tutorial.
/unsigned.
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Free accounts can join AE teams and run missions, but they get no XP or other rewards.
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Originally Posted by Irish Fury
Not to mention that if I understand the free player access correctly, free players can not join AE teams.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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This is interesting. I must have missed that announcement. Do you have a link? Not that I doubt you, I am just curious if there is other info on free/premium access I missed.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Free accounts can join AE teams and run missions, but they get no XP or other rewards.
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They bug you? Put them on ignore.
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Not at all. I enjoy AE as much as anyone. Both as a place to enjoy story arcs, and to speed through a few tough levels. I think you may be missing the point of my post. My concern was that the new players would only see the powerleveling side of the game and miss out on the dev created content and the joy of leveling a character through mission contacts/TFs. I also thought they could not play AE which would have excluded them from a large portion of teams being formed, however, it seems I was mistaken about that bit.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
They bug you?
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Might want to give this a read.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=231133
Specifically 5.3
Do not create threads/posts to “petition” for game features, additions, changes, or other issues.
Also, you're a few years too late. This type of idea came up back when AE first started to become a farming/pl tool, and for the reasons you've stated(Other than the F2Pers point). New player zones in, and sees lots a PL broadcasts for AE had been a concern then, and for some still is.
Also, it's not like that on every server. I play on Virtue, and I rarely see any broadcasts for AE farms when I'm in Atlas. Do they happen? Sure. Do I see it everytime? Of course not. I've been on Freedom and left, because that was what I saw. Mostly people asking for farms to get PLed. If that's the server you're seeing this on, and it bothers you that much, try a different one.
I was thinking much along this line myself this weekend that the AE building should be removed from Atlas Park from Issue 21 on.
Granted it's not going to be the 'first' zone a new player/character zones into, but Atlas will be the first zone a 'hero' will zone into after the Galaxy City Tutorial, wherein the player will get a greater first impression of the community.
Why do this? I don't want the vitriol and constant streaming of AE free farm, paid farm, and PL requests inundating our new player's broadcasts when most of these new players are looking more to learning the game in an environment that isn't a drudgery of AE profiteers espousing the bypassing of the content and context of what this game is about. To me, that sets a pretty negative first impression to those wanting to learn the game.
I do agree with the removal of the AE building from Atlas, but I'm not sure if a 'petition' is an allowable methodology to use here on the forums.
Best practice, in my opinion, is to set this concern to the forums as suggestion and/or discussion item, and, if so desired, send the Devs and OCR Team a PM stating why you think the AE building should be removed from Atlas, as well as provide an applicable solution (such to the extent wherein my solution would be to allow the one existing in King's Row to take up the reigns of the AE Building low-level center of farming and PLing, since it'll be the easiest-accessible AE building a new character will be able to get to if the AE building in Atlas goes away).
Do I agree with the AE Building's removal from Atlas? Yes.
Do I agree to petition it here on the forums? No.
I didn't realize I was stepping out of bounds by using the term "petition" and I offer sincere apologies for that faux pas. Is there a way for me to change the thread title to indicate this is a suggestion?
Again, I would like to stress that I am not bothered by the broadcasts for farming. It is your $15, do whatever you want. I also recognize that this is much more prevalant on the Freedom server, but given the "CoH:Feeedom" name, I imagine most of the new folks will start their toons on that server. Major Deej made the case for this much more elloquently that I did.
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It was on the Freedom Friday thing on Facebook the week before last. |
Originally Posted by Irish Fury
This is interesting. I must have missed that announcement. Do you have a link? Not that I doubt you, I am just curious if there is other info on free/premium access I missed.
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Originally Posted by Unknown_User
Q. Can you describe the exact limitations for premium players on auctions, mission architect and inventions?
A. For Mission Architect, VIP players will have the exact same experience. Premium players, depending on their Paragon Reward status, may be able to earn rewards and XP while playing through Mission Architect arcs, and might also be able to publish their own arcs. Free players will have access to Mission Architect, but will not earn rewards or XP. |
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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How about no.
There are arcs there specifically designed as replacement for the low level (1-10) arcs in game. They shouldn't have to run through a higher level zone to run them. It'd be as silly as coming out of the tutorial on the far side of Talos and being told you have to reach the train to reach Atlas Park to level.
The farm spam is, frankly, a Freedom server issue. I rarely if ever see them anywhere else.
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Nope. You can't change the title of a thread. I'm sure the Forum mods will see that you weren't looking to form an actual petition to get signatures from players to attempt to force a change to be made. I imagine the reason to can't change the title is to prevent someone from starting a flaming post, and then edit it after it's been read, but before it's been modsmacked. Just my theory though.|
Originally Posted by Irish Fury
I didn't realize I was stepping out of bounds by using the term "petition" and I offer sincere apologies for that faux pas. Is there a way for me to change the thread title to indicate this is a suggestion?
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| Again, I would like to stress that I am not bothered by the broadcasts for farming. It is your $15, do whatever you want. I also recognize that this is much more prevalant on the Freedom server, but given the "CoH:Feeedom" name, I imagine most of the new folks will start their toons on that server. Major Deej made the case for this much more elloquently that I did. |
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Thanks, Chad! |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
It was on the Freedom Friday thing on Facebook the week before last.
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| There are arcs there specifically designed as replacement for the low level (1-10) arcs in game. They shouldn't have to run through a higher level zone to run them. It'd be as silly as coming out of the tutorial on the far side of Talos and being told you have to reach the train to reach Atlas Park to level. |
I'm hoping that the I21 lowbie zone revamp will indeed remove the AEs from those zones.
The fact the low level arcs are getting completely re-done (as far as I know from reading Dev posts etc) negates the replacement arc argument.
The reason AE was/is so popular, especially blue side, is that the low level content there is utter, utter dross. I, for one, have often wished I could just skip to level 22, where the fun actually started. Praetoria disqualified itself, for me, for using too much hax (cheaty mobs, constant ambushes, annoying mob placement etc)
Hopefully the new lowbie content puts all those faults to the torch in a new golden age...heh. I hope.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
It was on the Freedom Friday thing on Facebook the week before last.
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Even though I pride myself on trying to keep in the know about what is going on with this game via Forums, social media, chats, UStreams, etc, I have to admit, this is the first I've heard that Freebies with not get rewards or XP for playing AE mission.
Interesting.
Would be nice if the OCR maybe did a 'crazy' thing like conjoin all the week's hints and cross-media info into a (gasp) weekly summary...(hint).
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completely disagree. The lowbie arcs getting redone is all fine and good, but once you've seen them ONCE they are no longer new. Unlike the devs the AE can have a constant stream of NEW lowbie arcs. Much faster than the devs can add new lowbie arcs.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm hoping that the I21 lowbie zone revamp will indeed remove the AEs from those zones.
The fact the low level arcs are getting completely re-done (as far as I know from reading Dev posts etc) negates the replacement arc argument. The reason AE was/is so popular, especially blue side, is that the low level content there is utter, utter dross. I, for one, have often wished I could just skip to level 22, where the fun actually started. Praetoria disqualified itself, for me, for using too much hax (cheaty mobs, constant ambushes, annoying mob placement etc) Hopefully the new lowbie content puts all those faults to the torch in a new golden age...heh. I hope. |
Also unless I'm mistaken the revamp is ONLY for Atlas and Galaxy, which is no where NEAR level 22 levels of content. I've not even seen anywhere where they said they are also re-doing content in the Skyway/Steel Canyon/Talos range. And I don't think they've said they are doing anything to King's Row or Perez partk. So yeah, I still think the AE will be useful for low level stuff.
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Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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True. However, I can run Holllows->Faultline->New Talos arcs till the cows come home.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
completely disagree. The lowbie arcs getting redone is all fine and good, but once you've seen them ONCE they are no longer new. Unlike the devs the AE can have a constant stream of NEW lowbie arcs. Much faster than the devs can add new lowbie arcs.
Also unless I'm mistaken the revamp is ONLY for Atlas and Galaxy, which is no where NEAR level 22 levels of content. I've not even seen anywhere where they said they are also re-doing content in the Skyway/Steel Canyon/Talos range. And I don't think they've said they are doing anything to King's Row or Perez partk. So yeah, I still think the AE will be useful for low level stuff. |
Why? Because they are good. They are well written and engaging with decent mission layout, more so for the new Talos arcs especially (IMO).
The current blueside low level stuff is utter dross. It has no plot. It is nothing more than a string of random missions thrown together with bad writing.
So, new players can be forgiven for thinking 'I can't stomach that for x many levels, PL time for me!' and lunging at the AE.
And, speaking of the AE, I for one find it incredibly hard to find quality stuff in there as compared to streams of utter dross.
Maybe time for a much updated interface update, because I know that doesn't make life easier...
My point is, however, that players should NOT be introduced to a zone where the norm they first see is AE spam (a problem thankfully absent on Union, but that doesnt stop it obviously being a problem elsewhere.) They should know that the rest of the game is out there and is as fun and 'better' than PLing through to 50 and then grumbling and quitting.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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While we're discussing removing AE buildings from zones, I suggest the AE building should be removed from Rikti War Zone because:
- It's a hazard zone with a war going on.
- Surrounding buildings are besieged by villains/partially demolished.
How does it make sense that, in the middle of a war zone, a new, high-tech entertainment skyscraper was constructed, requiring complex infrastructure to maintain operation, and it remains pristine, untouched, while surrounded by warring villains and partially demolished terrain?
A roleplay rationale could be devised, something like:
- That's why Dr. Aeon is a super-genius; he devised some way to keep his building safe.
- It's like a USO show for troops in real-world war zones. Vanguard and the other troops in RWZ need entertainment to keep up morale.
- The Rikti and other villain groups, for some reason, support the AE building in the zone.
However, none of these rationales ring true.
The AE building does not belong in Rikti War Zone and should be removed.
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Yeah I don't find the Hollows that impressive. And that zone is not any more new than the ones I'm mentioned. Faultline is great but even now it's showing it's age. The new talos ones are pretty good, but there's still the issue of leveling enough to actually get to them, unless you come from Failtoria.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
True. However, I can run Holllows->Faultline->New Talos arcs till the cows come home.
Why? Because they are good. They are well written and engaging with decent mission layout, more so for the new Talos arcs especially (IMO). The current blueside low level stuff is utter dross. It has no plot. It is nothing more than a string of random missions thrown together with bad writing. So, new players can be forgiven for thinking 'I can't stomach that for x many levels, PL time for me!' and lunging at the AE. And, speaking of the AE, I for one find it incredibly hard to find quality stuff in there as compared to streams of utter dross. Maybe time for a much updated interface update, because I know that doesn't make life easier... My point is, however, that players should NOT be introduced to a zone where the norm they first see is AE spam (a problem thankfully absent on Union, but that doesnt stop it obviously being a problem elsewhere.) They should know that the rest of the game is out there and is as fun and 'better' than PLing through to 50 and then grumbling and quitting. |
I do see your point. Perhaps moving it to Kings Row (which is still NOT USED that much) would help?
Honestly (like you alluded to) I think it's only Freedom that has this issue. I barely see any Atlas AE spam on any of the other servers.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
@Todogut
While, for In Character reasoning I would agree with that, OOC I have to say nay. For one reason; RWZ AE is the ONLY Co-Op AE available. I still think one should be put in PD, but apparently...well, theres SOME reason, likely having to do a zone re-design.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I THINK it's in there cause it's one of the few co-op zones we have. Cim being the other one, would make EVEN LESS sense for it being there.
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Originally Posted by Todogut
While we're discussing removing AE buildings from zones, I suggest the AE building should be removed from Rikti War Zone because:
- It's a hazard zone with a war going on. - Surrounding buildings are besieged by villains/partially demolished. How does it make sense that, in the middle of a war zone, a new, high-tech entertainment skyscraper was constructed, requiring complex infrastructure to maintain operation, and it remains pristine, untouched, while surrounded by warring villains and partially demolished terrain? A roleplay rationale could be devised, something like: - That's why Dr. Aeon is a super-genius; he devised some way to keep his building safe. - It's like a USO show for troops in real-world war zones. Vanguard and the other troops in RWZ need entertainment to keep up morale. - The Rikti and other villain groups, for some reason, support the AE building in the zone. However, none of these rationales ring true. The AE building does not belong in Rikti War Zone and should be removed. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I think at least AE terminals should be in PD.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
@Todogut
While, for In Character reasoning I would agree with that, OOC I have to say nay. For one reason; RWZ AE is the ONLY Co-Op AE available. I still think one should be put in PD, but apparently...well, theres SOME reason, likely having to do a zone re-design. |
Just like Arena terminals are there.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Having one in Kings is fine, IMO. It's not THAT high a level, and it's also very close to clear roads and the tram station. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yeah I don't find the Hollows that impressive. And that zone is not any more new than the ones I'm mentioned. Faultline is great but even now it's showing it's age. The new talos ones are pretty good, but there's still the issue of leveling enough to actually get to them, unless you come from Failtoria.
I do see your point. Perhaps moving it to Kings Row (which is still NOT USED that much) would help? Honestly (like you alluded to) I think it's only Freedom that has this issue. I barely see any Atlas AE spam on any of the other servers. |
And while the other zones may not be new, I still find their content preferable to the dross given by starter contacts and their contact chains. YMMV, but I find dribbling candlewax into my ear while watching paint dry more fun and engaging than the content thats not so much legacy as pre-historic
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Honestly I find the Hollows just as annoying.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Having one in Kings is fine, IMO. It's not THAT high a level, and it's also very close to clear roads and the tram station.
And while the other zones may not be new, I still find their content preferable to the dross given by starter contacts and their contact chains. YMMV, but I find dribbling candlewax into my ear while watching paint dry more fun and engaging than the content thats not so much legacy as pre-historic |
But everyone has their pet peeves.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Heck, make some of the random Portals in PD actually DO something and use them as teleport gateways to an up-rooted and free-floating AE on the other side of the club from the chalet. That would look quite awesome, and also stop the outside looking so barren outside of Xmas.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I think at least AE terminals should be in PD.
Just like Arena terminals are there. |
Heck, you could do a double-win and let people outside that way to get the Trucker badge outside ski season!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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With what will hopefully be a flood of new players coming with the release of CoH: Freedom, I think it is worth considering the removal of the AE building from Atlas Park.
This thought came to me while I was carrying some LotG Rech IO's from Fort Trident to WWs and watching Atlas broadcast. It is a never ending stream of power level advertisements and requests. While I have no issue with people choosing to use the AE to power level their toons, I do not think that this is the first side of the game new players should be exposed to. Not to mention that if I understand the free player access correctly, free players can not join AE teams. Imagine how frustrating that would be. You load in to the first zone and find that you can not participate in 90% of the teams being formed. Remove AE from Atlas Park and the power levelers can move their operations to Steel Canyon (which has better facilities anyway with the university crafting tables right next to WWs.)