Now that All ATs Can Go Either Way in I21...
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-17 10:01 in Suggestions and Ideas
Rage is a power in the Super Strength set, that Tanks had years before Brutes even existed. I suspect you mean Fury, which fits perfectly with the Brute concept. And if you don't think that terms like "Brute" "Rage" and "Fury" fit with heroes, I'd like you to speak with my friends Wolverine, The Hulk, Mister Furious, and all sorts of berserk, raging heroes.
Corruptors are definitely more "evil sounding", but ultimately, the name is not all that important. We've had heroes using evil sources of power (Dark everything, maybe?) for years now. I really don't think that changing the names of the ATs is going to change anything that's really relevant.
@Roderick
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In a game where players shorten most of the Archetype names to 1-2 syllables or an abbreviation, I don't think the full name is particularly relevant.
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Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
How the AT's are presented is important to the player's concept of the game.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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That's what she said! | Now that All ATs Can Go Either Way in I21... |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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/unsigned
That's just the name of the ATs. It doesn't mean anything. In fact, it should have always been an OOC thing that none of the NPCs should of mentioned and should of stayed just a MMO mechanic.
They mean nothing.
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And Scrappers and Stalkers.
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Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
Blaster, Controller, Tank, and Defender ... Mastermind, and Dominator ... Brute, ... Corrupter ...
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@Johnstone & @Johnstone 2
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All my characters
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I would agree that the Devs probably -should- have come up with AT names that were a bit more "neutral" in terms of alignment. But I'm of the opinion that since the proverbial damage was done years ago there's really no justifiable reason to change them now. It'd be far too much work for far too little benefit.|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
The names of the AT's should reflect a more neutral position.
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Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
The real stickler is Corrupter which is too obviously evil.
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Meh, a 'Brute of a man' can be a Hero or Villain. In the same way that the giant in black and red can actually be Captain Stalwart the Hero, while the cute little girl in the frilly pink dress is actually Evil Emily the dangerous demon summoner.
A 'corrupted' thing is not necessarily evil, either. If a metal is 'corrupted' it simply means that it's not 100% pure anymore. So, a Corr can 'corrupt' an enemies defenses, resistance or buffs and make them not as 'pure' as they were.
Works fine for me, so /unsigned
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You are correct in respect to your comment that any change to an MMO is going to tick some people off. It doesn't matter if that change is good or bad. Some players are simply calcified and don't adjust well to any change.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I would agree that the Devs probably -should- have come up with AT names that were a bit more "neutral" in terms of alignment. But I'm of the opinion that since the proverbial damage was done years ago there's really no justifiable reason to change them now. It'd be far too much work for far too little benefit.
Sure one could make the case that the name "Corruptor" sounds too evil for a hero. But the real irony is that there's probably as many people who'd be pissed off to have their current AT name changed from Corruptor to Crusader as there would be who'd actually want their AT name to be changed to Crusader in that case. Changing fundamental things that have been in place for years will always be very problematic for a MMO like this no matter how well intentioned the change would be. *shrugs* |
So, I think the argument that some people are going to be upset by a change in nomenclature, while true, is not a reason to not do something that would clarify the roles and make the majority of players identify with their AT's better.
The real issue here is the majority of the population of COX is Blue side. As a hero I'd like my Hero to have an AT that at least sounds Heroic. So if I want to play a defender type character which has more offensive punch--because we all know that defender damage for the most part sucks--I'd rather not be called a Corrupter.
The ideal thing would be for them to make AT's so you can choose which set is your primary and which set is your secondary. But that's not going to happen.
More importantly, the lame excuse not to port Empathy to corruptors is dead.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
/unsigned as unnecessary.
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To the more practical end, people are familiar with archetype names. Changing those just adds an extra layer of confusion. ...And let's be honest, in almost all the time in CoH/V, archetype names are a meta-game designation, having far less to do with your character and/or their personality than telling other players that you control/debuff/blast/melee/etc.
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True, but since the devs specifically made Pain Domination as an Empathy replacement set I doubt they will ever port either Empathy or Pain Domination.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
More importantly, the lame excuse not to port Empathy to corruptors is dead.
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It's not a matter of being calcified and not liking change. It's a matter of fact that these changes wouldn't mean anything. It's the same thing that comes up when people ask for new Origins.|
Originally Posted by Cptn_Courageous
You are correct in respect to your comment that any change to an MMO is going to tick some people off. It doesn't matter if that change is good or bad. Some players are simply calcified and don't adjust well to any change.
So, I think the argument that some people are going to be upset by a change in nomenclature, while true, is not a reason to not do something that would clarify the roles and make the majority of players identify with their AT's better. The real issue here is the majority of the population of COX is Blue side. As a hero I'd like my Hero to have an AT that at least sounds Heroic. So if I want to play a defender type character which has more offensive punch--because we all know that defender damage for the most part sucks--I'd rather not be called a Corrupter. The ideal thing would be for them to make AT's so you can choose which set is your primary and which set is your secondary. But that's not going to happen. |
There's no functional benefit that forcing a name change on everyone who picks that alignment would bring, that telling the people who want a different name that they can think of their AT as whatever name they wish wouldn't do without the confusion and disruption.
There's a reason they got rid of End Gain and End Drain enhancers and made them End Mod. They were functionally the same and having 2 different names was needlessly complicated and confusing. Same thing applies here.
I don't need a name to feel heroic of villainous. My alignment is determined by my actions and attitudes.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I could be wrong, as I didn't listen first-hand, but I think the Ustream chat from a couple weeks ago said that Pain Dom was on the table for potential proliferation in the future.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
True, but since the devs specifically made Pain Domination as an Empathy replacement set I doubt they will ever port either Empathy or Pain Domination.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3728315
Actually, I re-read that, and it was said the other way around--they may proliferate Empathy to Masterminds.
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| Masterminds getting Kinetics? Eventually. They still have Cold Domination, Kinetics, and Radiation and some other stuff. Maybe Empathy. Zwill thinks that would be pretty cool. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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That's fine with me as long as Defenders and/or Controllers get Pain Domination in return.
The names of the AT's should reflect a more neutral position.
Blaster, Controller, Tank, Scrapper and Defender are all pretty neutral
Mastermind, and Dominator are pretty neutral too. Dominating is not necessarily an evil thing it just means you own the battlefield. The domination mechanic would have to be re-explained.
Brute, might be neutral enough to pass but might be changed to something like Berserker to explain their fury component... or Avenger and call their Fury-> Vengeance. Of course then you might want to call a tank a Guardian.
The real stickler is Corrupter which is too obviously evil. Perhaps they might be a "Crusader" which would fit into the whole idea of having a scourge. Another possibility would be Rogue which sorta fits with the AT's image of doing more damage and less support than a Defender. Rogues can be good guys too, they're just trickier about it.
Anyway it's something to think about.... and yes I realize it would take some time to go through change all the text. Would it be worth it? I'm not a developer, but I think so. How the AT's are presented is important to the player's concept of the game.
I don't think Stalker is the best term for a hero, but I haven't come up with an alternative... yet.
Editied: for nominclature.