Quote:
For you studying pleasure:|
Originally Posted by dragonwing
I recently had a character hit Level 50 and I'm trying to learn about IO's and slotting them. The character is a level 50 Katana\WP. I'm not sure what to slot and how the universal componants of the IO's work. I will be greatful for any explantions on how it all works and suggestions as to what kind to slot and why. Thank you!!!!
 |
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Inventions.
Also highly suggest picking up Mids Hero Builder if you don't have it already. You can pick it up here:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....c&topic=4049.0
IOs aren't terribly difficult to get the hang of, nor is using Mids once you get the hang of it. For your particular character, you want to strive for hitting the softcap for defense to Smash/Lethal/Energy/N. Energy. You then want to work on global recharge (recharge that affects all of your powers) in order to achieve an optimal attack chain.
Building with IOs can become quite expensive, so your budget will make a large impact on what you can build now and what you can build down the road. If you have a more limited build (say a few hundred million influence) I would recommend frankenslotting at least your attacks. This entails mixing IOs from different sets and common IOs in order to get optimal enhancement in your powers - mainly your attacks.
This method doesn't focus on acquiring set bonuses - the buffs you get from slotting multiple IOs from the same set into the same power. Preferably you want to start with getting multi-aspect IOs (those that enhance acc/dmg/end/rech or some combo like this) and then fill in gaps with commons for damage or recharge, for instance.
If you do have the budget to slot sets for bonuses, keep in mind that while they are stackable, you can only stack 5 of the same bonus. For example, you slot multiple sets that give a 5% recharge bonus (Crushing Impact, Obliteration, Doctored Wounds, etc.). You will only receive the benefits of 5 of those 5% bonuses. If you go over that, you won't get the bonus.
If I missed anything else I'm sure other forumites will chime in to fill in the blanks.
Good Luck!
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
I just want to point out one mistake that a lot of new builders tend to make: Chasing set bonuses and ending up with poorly slotted powers. I see a lot of people doing things like only 4-slotting their best attacks with Kinetic Combats for the defense bonuses - great if you're going for Smashing/Lethal defense, but those attacks will have piss-poor accuracy and middling damage. The Obliteration PBAoE set with its yummy melee defense bonuses looks great for damage auras - except it's awful on endurance reduction, and those damage auras take a LOT of end to run.
Players just starting out with creating builds will do well to figure out how best to enhance their powers first, and *then* worry about chasing set bonuses while maintaining as much of that enhancement as possible. Don't ruin your best tools.
Also, with IOs higher level isn't always better. If you run lower level taskforces or exemp down to play with friends, you definitely want to get lower than level 50 IOs.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
Well, only if you want your bonuses while exemplared. Lower level content is pretty easy without IOs and without your bonuses, your powers are still slotted more optimally than they would be on pure SOs. Getting those lowbie IOs can be a huge pain, though. Both in time and Inf investment.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Also, with IOs higher level isn't always better. If you run lower level taskforces or exemp down to play with friends, you definitely want to get lower than level 50 IOs.
|
That said, one of my long term projects is to have my Ice tank kitted out (pretty much the same build, just for exemplaring) for lowbie TFs and the same with my mind/psi dom (hello perma-dom at level 25). Both are 2nd/3rd builds, of course.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
I've always been hesitant on the invention system outside of common IOs because trying to learn all the rules of sets and bonuses made my head spin, but now I'm thinking about diving in and making a build. I plan on using only the "enhancement" IOs like Acc/Dam, Dam/Rech/End, etc (ie none of the special +Recovery, or +Stealth, or Chance for Build Up, or what have you) and then mixing and matching with other enhancements (other "enhancement" set IOs, common IOs and HOs). I'm not worried about bonuses, I know I'll get some but they won't be anything I rely on. In this situation, do I need to worry about the level of the IO and losing power when exemplaring?
Quote:
If you are looking for more of a frankenslotting of powers, then you can get rather low in terms of what level you will be slotting. If you are using dual enhancements, level 24 gets you +3 SO values, ie 2 acc/damage, 2 damage/end, and 2 damage/recharge will get you 1 SOs worth in acc, recharge, end and 3 SOs worth in damage. Level 24s are annoying to get, but you can play around with the levels to get the numbers you want. Also note the above slotting could be done from two sets so you get three set bonuses from two different sets. To me it's a cheap way to IO out a build for lower level content.
|
Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
I've always been hesitant on the invention system outside of common IOs because trying to learn all the rules of sets and bonuses made my head spin, but now I'm thinking about diving in and making a build. I plan on using only the "enhancement" IOs like Acc/Dam, Dam/Rech/End, etc (ie none of the special +Recovery, or +Stealth, or Chance for Build Up, or what have you) and then mixing and matching with other enhancements (other "enhancement" set IOs, common IOs and HOs). I'm not worried about bonuses, I know I'll get some but they won't be anything I rely on. In this situation, do I need to worry about the level of the IO and losing power when exemplaring?
|
Quote:
FALSE.|
Originally Posted by Infini
Well, only if you want your bonuses while exemplared. Lower level content is pretty easy without IOs and without your bonuses, your powers are still slotted more optimally than they would be on pure SOs.
|
When you exemplar down two things happen. First you lose set bonuses. Second the % enhancement is reduced.
I don't know about you, but I like having enough accuracy slotted in my attacks, and I don't tend to go crazy overslotting it. So if I have enough to hit 95% of the time at level 50, and I drop to run a citadel, I might only be hitting 74% of the time, and that's a big differnce.
If, instead of level 50 IOs I had slotted 43 triples, or 24 duals, I'd still have the exact same % accuracy at 25 or 30 as I do at 50.
The magic numbers for exemping:
Level 50 Quads
Level 43 Triples
Level 24 Duals
Anything that level or lower will not be reduced in bonus when you exemplar unless you go to level 20 or lower. So you have a huge chunk of the game you can run with solid numbers.
And IOs get better than SOs way lower than most people think. Sure the single attribute IOs need to be level 35, but a triple gives more than 38% total bonus at level 17. From that point on anything you slot is better than a SO.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I'm not following why level 24s are better than level 50s
Quote:
They're only better when you exemp. |
Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
I'm not following why level 24s are better than level 50s
|
When you exemp down, your higher level IOs will lose some of their percentage of enhancement. Level 24s will stay at the same percentage when you exemp, because that percentage is lower to begin with.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
But would you lose enough off of the level 50 to where it would be worse than a level 24 when you exempted down? If it does, then that makes no sense.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
They're only better when you exemp.
When you exemp down, your higher level IOs will lose some of their percentage of enhancement. Level 24s will stay at the same percentage when you exemp, because that percentage is lower to begin with. |
I love how everytime GavinRuneblade starts a post with a quote and "FALSE", everything he says after that is wrong.
Maybe this is some kind of japanese reading thing and you're supposed to read from bottom to top. 
Quote:
About to say... Have never had a problem with anything while exemplared on my 50s with higher level IOs. >.> Just don't have the bonuses. :::shrug:::
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I love how everytime GavinRuneblade starts a post with a quote and "FALSE", everything he says after that is wrong.
Maybe this is some kind of japanese reading thing and you're supposed to read from bottom to top. |
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
As an example, have a full set of Obliteration in Eviscerate, all level 50s. I've never done an exemplar calculation, and Mids' doesn't do it for me, so forgive me if I mess up. I'll show my work.
At 50: 66% acc, 96% dam, 19% end, 90% rechAt level 21, my scaling factor is .587, maximum bonus cap is 41.5%, and these do NOT affect any benefits of 20% or less.
I have a quad of 18.55%, which isn't reduced, so 18.55% add/dam/end/rech. I have a straight damage of 42.4%, which is reduced to 41.5%, then multiplied by my scaling factor to get 24.36% dam. Acc/rech of 26.5% goes to 15.56% acc/rec, and the same procedure gives me 15.56% dam/rech. Finally, a 21.2% acc/dam/rech turns into a 12.44% add/dam/rech. Add it up and.. our damage is over the ED cap, but it'll round off the same.
At 21: 47% acc, 71% dam, 19% end, 62% rechNow, let's slot 50 quad, 43 triple, 24 dual, 50 single. Well, Obliteration doesn't go to 24, but for the sake of argument let's say it does. Only the single is reduced, and to 24.36% like before. However, we'll be ED capped on damage by a little. Not showing my work this time.
At 50: 58% acc, 95% dam, 19% end, 76% rechSo the point is that you're better at low levels with the lower level enhancements, even apart from the set bonuses. But with the lower level IOs:
At 21: 58% acc, 81% dam, 19% end, 76% rech
acc: -8% @ 50, +11% @ 21Unless you're spending half your time at really low levels, it doesn't seem like you'd want to make that trade off if we consider only enhancement values. Most exemplaring probably isn't all the way to 21, so the loss would be less. Upper level content should also be a little more challenging than lowbie content. I really don't think enhancement values is much of an argument unless it's an exemplar-specific build. I think the main argument in favor of lower level IOs is preserving set bonuses while exemplared.
dam: -1% @ 50, +10% @ 21
end: no change
rech: -14% @ 50, +14% @ 21
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Thank you, Nihilii, for demonstrating once again that the only thing better than being ironically incorrect is being incredibly pedantic while being ironically incorrect.
I think "YMMV" goes without saying on this kind of thing but I will add that I've taken to slotting level 27 to 32 IOs where possible. This has two advantages: the most obvious one is that you get to keep more of your bonuses while exemplaring. As Infini said, you don't actually need this, but I say why not be s/l softcapped on citadels, sutters and most of the ouro arcs worth running? Especially if you plan to go all the way and use purples, well, one of the selling points of those is that their bonuses work at any level. How silly not to capitalize on something you've already invested so heavily in.
The other thing is that this means you can begin buying your final IOs starting from level 24 to 29. I don't know about anyone else but I personally enjoy surfing through the ho-hum 30s on a wave of invented mayhem. The mid level villain groups are categorically not designed to be a threat to IOed players so abusing them is endlessly amusing. Again, maybe that's just me.
Quote:
The tip system makes it a lot easier. Originally all you could do was farm and farm, spend 200-400mil on LoTG:GR easily. Now days, they're still expensive but four days and you got yourself an easy set to fill in. In a month you'd likely hit Ultimate Rech, ACC, health easy for DEF.
|
Originally Posted by evertheskeptic
I've always been hesitant on the invention system outside of common IOs because trying to learn all the rules of sets and bonuses made my head spin, but now I'm thinking about diving in and making a build. I plan on using only the "enhancement" IOs like Acc/Dam, Dam/Rech/End, etc (ie none of the special +Recovery, or +Stealth, or Chance for Build Up, or what have you) and then mixing and matching with other enhancements (other "enhancement" set IOs, common IOs and HOs). I'm not worried about bonuses, I know I'll get some but they won't be anything I rely on. In this situation, do I need to worry about the level of the IO and losing power when exemplaring?
|
Quote:
Blame the wiki because I trust it? But awesome concept! =)|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I love how everytime GavinRuneblade starts a post with a quote and "FALSE", everything he says after that is wrong.
Maybe this is some kind of japanese reading thing and you're supposed to read from bottom to top. |
Quote:
|
* Due to Step 1, you can use up to level 25 Dual-Aspect IOs, level 43 Tri-Aspect IOs, and level 50 Quad-Aspect IOs and suffer no bonus reduction unless you Exemplar to level 20 or lower. (Those breakpoints are only accurate for Schedule A benefits. Schedule B's are higher, C's and D's are lower.) Example: Slotting Aimed Shot with Ruin - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40 Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 43 Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 43 Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 43 Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 43 gives a total bonus of: 93.18% Accuracy, 93.57% Damage, 76.8% Endurance Reduction and 93.18% Recharge Reduction at full effect from level 21 to 50. |
Quote:
| Unless you're spending half your time at really low levels, it doesn't seem like you'd want to make that trade off if we consider only enhancement values. Most exemplaring probably isn't all the way to 21, so the loss would be less. Upper level content should also be a little more challenging than lowbie content. I really don't think enhancement values is much of an argument unless it's an exemplar-specific build. I think the main argument in favor of lower level IOs is preserving set bonuses while exemplared. |
Also, I was mostly commenting on the use of the word "only".
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
New builders? I see veterans do this and swear their toons are the greatest because of their sky high defense. Great, but you can't do damage for ****.
|
Originally Posted by Selina_H
I just want to point out one mistake that a lot of new builders tend to make: Chasing set bonuses and ending up with poorly slotted powers. I see a lot of people doing things like only 4-slotting their best attacks with Kinetic Combats for the defense bonuses - great if you're going for Smashing/Lethal defense, but those attacks will have piss-poor accuracy and middling damage.
|
NITES, FTW
50s: BS/Inv Eng/Eng Blaster Grav/Rad Fire/Stone Brute AR/Kin Emp/Arch Mind/Sonic Dark/Dark Stalker Fire/Kin Thugs/Poison EM/Inv Dark/Thermal
In works: WP/SS Tank Demon/Dark Claws/Elec Brute Elec/Psi Dominator
Quote:
I do see veteran builders do this, but it's often because the underslotted powers are being used as set mules and aren't actually part of their optimized attack chain, which *is* slotted very well. New builders are probably more likely to underslot unintentionally; experienced builders are more aware of the tradeoffs they're choosing.|
Originally Posted by esseff1
New builders? I see veterans do this and swear their toons are the greatest because of their sky high defense. Great, but you can't do damage for ****.
|
Of course, nobody's perfect.
Quote:
Veteran builders make intentional trade offs. That's a very different animal than basic build mistakes. If you consider low damage in and of itself a build mistake, then choosing a Tanker instead of a Scrapper or Brute is a similar mistake. I notice you're working on a Tanker.
|
Originally Posted by esseff1
New builders? I see veterans do this and swear their toons are the greatest because of their sky high defense. Great, but you can't do damage for ****.
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Thank you to everyone one, I think I'm getting an idea of a starting point with working with IO's! 
And remember everyone after level 10 has 2 potential builds. Use one for a build you are comfortable with and know how it works even if it's an SO build.
Then take build number 2 and learn with it ... you've always got build number 1 to fall back on.
And last there's the Test server (and/or at times the Beta server) where you can copy and try things all sorts of ways.
I recently had a character hit Level 50 and I'm trying to learn about IO's and slotting them. The character is a level 50 Katana\WP. I'm not sure what to slot and how the universal componants of the IO's work. I will be greatful for any explantions on how it all works and suggestions as to what kind to slot and why. Thank you!!!!