When claws was ported to brutes, the powers team increased the base recharge of some of the attacks. This caused the damage and endurance costs to also go up. And then there's the funky claws specific damage/activation equation that got slapped on.
End result? Brute claws was better by a bit than scrapper claws.
Then fury got smacked with the nerf bat. Now? Brute still wins but not by nearly as much.
On the WP side, I'd say brute wins for no other reason by the higher base HP.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Thanks Bill!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
When claws was ported to brutes, the powers team increased the base recharge of some of the attacks. This caused the damage and endurance costs to also go up. And then there's the funky claws specific damage/activation equation that got slapped on.
End result? Brute claws was better by a bit than scrapper claws. Then fury got smacked with the nerf bat. Now? Brute still wins but not by nearly as much. On the WP side, I'd say brute wins for no other reason by the higher base HP. |
Just the sort of info I was hoping to get. Couldnt ask for a more informed source to help me! Guess I will go Brute.
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When you say wins do you mean ST DPS? I didn't realize that, and would be slightly encouraging for my Claws/Invuln who I've been considering deleting.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Then fury got smacked with the nerf bat. Now? Brute still wins but not by nearly as much.
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On a side note, in a different thread someone mentioned that once i21 comes out you will be able to make a brute on hero side without having to change alignment. Does anyone know if this is true? I have looked over any i21 notes I can find, havent seen this listed any where.
Thanks,
JV/Val
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I'd say both ST and AoE. Brute Claws Spin is... amazing.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
When you say wins do you mean ST DPS? I didn't realize that, and would be slightly encouraging for my Claws/Invuln who I've been considering deleting.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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It's true.|
Originally Posted by JusticeValkyre
On a side note, in a different thread someone mentioned that once i21 comes out you will be able to make a brute on hero side without having to change alignment. Does anyone know if this is true? I have looked over any i21 notes I can find, havent seen this listed any where.
Thanks, JV/Val |
They've said that all ATs share a tutorial (Galaxy City) and that where you go after the tutorial is determined not by your archetype but by your choice.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Everything is better as a brute.
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Awesome, thanks for the response. First time I read that, I missed the "not" in the "not by archetype" which totally threw me off.
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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
It's true.
They've said that all ATs share a tutorial (Galaxy City) and that where you go after the tutorial is determined not by your archetype but by your choice. |
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Originally Posted by Colossal
Everything is better as a brute.
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Wellll... a dm/sd scrapper is going to push out much higher damage than a dm/sd brute due to the way damage buffs and AT mods work.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Heh well there goes actual facts raining on my hyperbole's parade.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Wellll... a dm/sd scrapper is going to push out much higher damage than a dm/sd brute due to the way damage buffs and AT mods work.
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Oh I know that, I'm just loving Brutes since the Fury change, that was more of a 'I support this' response. But I didn't even think about rerolling my fm/sd scrapper into a Brute (AAO, dmg cap on SCharge, you know this stuff better than me |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Wellll... a dm/sd scrapper is going to push out much higher damage than a dm/sd brute due to the way damage buffs and AT mods work.
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).
I miss old fury to be honest but I always built to hit that 90% fury mark. I can't get near that now without that villain alignment power.
And yea, I like brutes more as well. It's been a daily question on deleting my main and remaking him.... but instead, I'm going to move him to the VIP server when I-21 goes live so that I can remake him without killing him.
Be well, people of CoH.
The reason I don't miss it is that while the 90% fury moments were glorious, they were just moments to me. Because if I had to walk a short hallway (and I lose myself easily in caves) I started doing crap damage again. And since I had a long hiatus and the only high level (38, not exactly very high) I'm playing is a Stone/Elec Brute I am now able to tank with him when needed (Fault makes any secondary able to tank) and still doing very high damage because I can get the bar up with only my blows, I tanked SFs before my hiatus with her (because I was requested to, few buffs, many squishies) and I never had fury. I've been teaming with a BS/Regen scrapper and while subjective, I don't feel I'm doing less damage than him, not to any point it looks significant to me, but I'm not the kind that soloes pylons and stuff, I like teams.
Claws is better on brutes, and WP is better on brutes. Claws/WP is better on brutes.
I appreciate all the response and discussions going in this thread! Pretty well decided that I will delete my Claw/Regen scrapper, wait til i21 and remake him as Claw/WP brute. Pretty sure I am going to try and build a DM/Regen brute too. I have PLed a DM/WP brute, but have yet to enhance her. Think I will leave her as is, and try out the DM/Regen brute once I have it leveled. Hoping I will like Regen more with a little breathing room (HP) then the scrapper is now. My unoriginal Claw/Regen scrappers was created in the hay-day of pre-nerfs, he doesnt play anything like I want him to.
JV/Val
Why wait till 21? Roll a lowbie and start one shotting white minions with unslotted swipe at level 1!
This will make me sound lazy, but I dread going through the alignment switching. Anything villain side I find to be a PITA. At the moment I have over 20 L50's, with only like 12 being completely IOd and playable. I have plenty to keep me busy til i21.
Do Praetoria then?
I was able to get a Claws/WP brute through the Praetoria missions solo with no deaths early after release.
MA/SR Scrapper .. not so much.
Claws/WP brute really is very good right from level 1.
Bill (and everyone else),
When you say Claws is better on a Brute, is that at ALL recharge levels and/or throughout normal gameplay when you are just cruising on generics? Or is it endgame when you may have a ton of global recharge and etc? Or is the (slight) advantage at all levels and all price points? 
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Claws for brutes is awesome as soon as you get Spin and it only gets better from there. It's great to level up with and great at high end.
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Bill (and everyone else),
When you say Claws is better on a Brute, is that at ALL recharge levels and/or throughout normal gameplay when you are just cruising on generics? Or is it endgame when you may have a ton of global recharge and etc? Or is the (slight) advantage at all levels and all price points? Lewis |
Thanks!
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Bill is waiting until I21 so he can recreate his main with the exact same name without deleting the original. The original is being moved to the VIP server.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Why wait till 21? Roll a lowbie and start one shotting white minions with unslotted swipe at level 1!
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
The reason I don't miss it is that while the 90% fury moments were glorious, they were just moments to me. Because if I had to walk a short hallway (and I lose myself easily in caves) I started doing crap damage again. And since I had a long hiatus and the only high level (38, not exactly very high) I'm playing is a Stone/Elec Brute I am now able to tank with him when needed (Fault makes any secondary able to tank) and still doing very high damage because I can get the bar up with only my blows, I tanked SFs before my hiatus with her (because I was requested to, few buffs, many squishies) and I never had fury. I've been teaming with a BS/Regen scrapper and while subjective, I don't feel I'm doing less damage than him, not to any point it looks significant to me, but I'm not the kind that soloes pylons and stuff, I like teams.
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While I think the new fury mechanics are an overall improvement for the majority of players and are also more team/trial friendly - I was one of the players that could maintain a fairly solid 90% Fury, and I did this on teams.
So to me, it was effectively a nerf.
I have mixed feelings about it still.
I think the Fury degradation is much better now, and I think about how trials are played and how old Fury might have been a huge disadvantage.
On the other hand, I still feel like I should be able to access the last 20-25% of my Fury bar if I play hard enough/fast enough/good enough and not only when Frenzy is recharged.
That last chunk of Fury is about consistent Damage, and Frenzy is less about giving you a "Burst" of extra damage (which doesn't happen due to how Brutes and damage bonuses work) as is more of a Fury recovery or instant-fury power in situations when you need it.
The problem is it takes 3s to cast, and I don't usually need more than a handful of seconds to generate fury by diving into enemies anyway. So
Back on topic.
I'm kind of Surprised at Claws still being better DPS on the Brute side, but I'm very willing to take Bill Z's opinion on it as it concerns his main character.
Bill, have you copied your main to test and rebuilt a Brute version over there using all the stripped out IOs to test the ST DPS? I'd love to see a side by side of the two vs. each other if you have any details.
I have an OLD (issue-2) L50 claws/regen scrapper. I am very tempted to delete him and remake him as Claws/WP, but I am not sure if Brute or Scrapper would be better. I would guess Brute for Fury + Larger health pool, which is the way I am leaning atm. Some people still love regen, but when it comes to my melee toons I like set-it-and-forget-it. I play alot of support toons where I am healing/buffing/debuffing alot, so I like my melee toons to be alot more brainless if you can understand what I mean.
Would love to hear some opinions, or pros/cons when it comes to this.
Thanks in advance,
JV/Val