Quote:
A nice summation. Please allow me to respectfully present a rebuttal. I must do this here because I no longer have the option to do so in VB 09.|
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Since the full channel issue has apparently been resolved, Victory Badges 2009 has been retired. Please use '/chainjoin "Victory Badges"' to join Victory Badges instead.
Brief FAQs: 'What's the 'full channel issue'?' -- Before the /chantimeout command was implemented (and broken and refixed) Victory Badges had the maximum number of players join... including those who had inactive accounts and could not be removed from the channel. No new players could join unless someone left. 'Why Victory Badges 2009?' -- That's what a GM suggested. We had no clue at the time it would take so long to get the issue dealt with. 'Why close the channel at all?' -- We took an informal poll around the time the /chantimeout command was first implemented and about 2/3rds of both channels' population preferred to close VB09. |
The basic issue, for me, comes down to the last point of the informal poll. Now I concede that it would be impossible to reach everyone, let alone a consensus. Still, as I was sick with chicken pox for basically the last 2 weeks, I was online a LOT of that time and never saw a discussion about VB 09.
Be that as it may, if you don't want to use VB 09, why take away the rights of others to use it instead of leaving yourselves? I can't (and wouldn't) stop you from having conversations elsewhere. Why are you stopping mine on VB 09?
In all earnest seriousness, the rights of assembly and free speech are VITAL parts of a free society. Currently MULTIPLE wars are being fought over these [Arab spring]. And quite bluntly, silencing and kicking folks on VB 09 without proper warning was QUITE poor handling of some folks wanting to be elsewhere. A notice in the MOTD that didn't elaborate how and when this would happen was insufficient in my view. If I had known how this was to go down, I would have gone on Ghide for a week and had the channel to myself and whomever else might have wanted it. But I was denied even that option. I and several others.
Now I don't like to talk about a problem without suggesting a solution when I can. Fortunately there IS an easy one here. 3 easy steps in fact.
1. Unsilence EVERYone in VB 09.
2. If no existing channel mod wants to remain, then you can promote me. I'll handle it if you folks don't want the burden.
3. If you don't want to be there, leave. Your participation, and/or lack thereof is voluntary.
There is still a chance to make this right folks. Please take it.
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
I still see no reason to. It was made as an extension of VB, not as a separate channel itself. Now that that extension is no longer necessary, there's no reason to keep the channel (thus splitting up groups of players). It's bad enough if you're in Victory Forum, Global, Badges, Limitless, and any other private channels you may be in, having to broadcast in each one of those is a pain.
This has nothing to do with free speech. It's about efficiency. Losing the channel is more efficient.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
 |
^Professional Katana/regen build thread
Quote:
But no one is forcing you to spam those channels. Until the silencing began, I was completely unaware of Limitless for example. Never missed it and got teams just fine without it.|
Originally Posted by Elegost
I still see no reason to. It was made as an extension of VB, not as a separate channel itself. Now that that extension is no longer necessary, there's no reason to keep the channel (thus splitting up groups of players). It's bad enough if you're in Victory Forum, Global, Badges, Limitless, and any other private channels you may be in, having to broadcast in each one of those is a pain.
|
Quote:
| This has nothing to do with free speech. It's about efficiency. Losing the channel is more efficient. |
Now I was on the channels I wanted to be on. Someone decided to silence everyone and then started to discuss the option of kicking, in case you weren't online when this went down. Again rather plainly my freedoms of speech and assembly were infringed.
Also again, my main complaint is that this was handled badly and that I wasn't the only one to notice. Correcting this is still simple.
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
Quote:
I do understand your issue, somewhat, but if you want to be taken seriously, you have got to get away from this entirely. It has absolutely nothing to do with this.| Again rather plainly my freedoms of speech and assembly were infringed |
Whoever started the channel has the "right" to do with it whatever they want (in accordance with the rules and regs of the company allowing him to have created and use the channel in the first place). Personally, I'd take it to PMs and discuss with @Hamster (moo).
I've already forgotten about most of you
Quote:
And I understand that that is your perception and that you have your right to it. My perception differs.|
Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
I do understand your issue, somewhat, but if you want to be taken seriously, you have got to get away from this entirely. It has absolutely nothing to do with this.
|
Quote:
| Whoever started the channel has the "right" to do with it whatever they want (in accordance with the rules and regs of the company allowing him to have created and use the channel in the first place). Personally, I'd take it to PMs and discuss with @Hamster (moo). |
(No I don't think that kicking was mentioned in any way meant to intimidate. Nor do I think that anyone involved is a baby-eating nazi. I am simply expressing a disagreement and suggesting a solution. Honestly, I've teamed with most all of you at some point and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. But the way this was handled honestly touched a nerve completely unique to me and my history on Victory. It upset me in a way which I have no reason to think anyone would expect. So much that after kicking was mentioned I went into /Ghide and logged into another server on a toon without any Victory channels in the tabs.)
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
Quote:
........ yeah. Ok. | And I understand that that is your perception and that you have your right to it. My perception differs. |
GL / HF
I've already forgotten about most of you
Does it even matter? The same people who were on VB09 will be back in VB.
Quote:
Now THIS, this is a valid point!|
Originally Posted by Vivace
Does it even matter? The same people who were on VB09 will be back in VB.
|
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
Quote:
I'm the voice of reason in Victory. |
Originally Posted by ImpulseKing
Now THIS, this is a valid point!
|
But... if it doesn't matter, why the large rebuttal?
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Quote:
Shh Mental, shh...
|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
But... if it doesn't matter, why the large rebuttal?
|
Quote:
We're doomed.|
Originally Posted by Vivace
I'm the voice of reason in Victory.
|
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
We're doomed.
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! |
Aww, come on Chad. I'm one of the more level-headed ones here.
Muaha. Hahaha. MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Oh.
Retired.
Thought you said something else.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
Quote:
But... but.. |
Originally Posted by Vivace
Shh Mental, shh...
|
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
Quote:
Don't make me bust out the gags. He conceded...now shh....
|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
But... but..
|
Quote:
After some overdue sleep, I still think this is a valid question. (NOT here to continue the argument folks.|
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
But... if it doesn't matter, why the large rebuttal?
|
) Since, as it will become clear, I'm unlikely to get around to telling MG ingame, I'll answer here. The short answer is because that's how I think. In large, over-analyzed chunks of information.You wouldn't really have any way to know this because, by and large, I actively choose not to engage the Victory community in general. Now the folks that caused me to feel this way have been out of the game for about 2 years or so. So while the reasons for this behavior aren't really valid anymore, the feelings are something I haven't been able to shake. (For those that may care to know more my AE arc, Anti-harassment tutorial, may still be in the system.)
So when I said participation and/or lack thereof is voluntary, I was stating a standard I hold myself to. From my current behavior, you would never guess that I used to be the activities director for a large coalition of VGs. Many of which still are in the top 100.
So in closing. Hello, my name is ImpulseKing and I'm perhaps the most verbose person you've never heard of.
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
A few observations, if I may.
1. I dont know when youre on 09 but I very rarely saw any conversation in there ,about anything, prior to the silencing.
2. From what I saw every one that was in 09 was in the original.
3. Since 09 was created due to a technical issue that no longer exists and you can enjoy the exact same freedom of speech in VB any way, what exactly is the big deal?
Something witty and profound
You know what? Ive put too much time thinking about this and heres a few questions.
What the hell is our server population? A hundred or so? Why the hell do we need more than one global channel? How many global channels do we have, even? Its not like the old days when thered be off topic conversations thatd go for hours. No spamming or trolling now. Doesnt it make sense to consolidate all the channels down to one or two?
Shouldnt we as a low pop server try to stay together?
Something witty and profound
Quote:
It might be nice, but a couple of reasons this isn't happening. Some factors include things like not everyone who plays on our server a) posts in this forum b) even reads this forum section or c) reads the forums at all. And this facet has been going on since the game's' (extra 's for lego's benefit) inception. Having a built in community collaboration doesn't even get used automatically.| Shouldn’t we as a low pop server ™ try to stay together? |
Different personalities, different levels of interaction, different cliques and clacks, and different levels of perceived control status all contribute to a realitively small group of people not all using 1 channel. And I don't even mean exclusively either. These types of things happen all the time, in any "social" circumstance, but they get more pronounced with smaller groups of people. A lot of people don't see it as a problem / doesn't bother them because all they can see is that they have the level of interaction they want.
/2 cents
I've already forgotten about most of you
VoodooCompany is right on the money here. And in addition, let's not sell short the fact that we all seem to more or less get along pretty well. I haven't seen any open hostilities on our server in YEARS. This has value that is difficult to appreciate until we lose it. If the price of that is several global server channels, it's WELL worth it.
It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.
I refrained from commenting until now. I support Hamster's right to close the channel as he sees fit(I wouldn't have, but I support his right to), however, I too was irked with the implementation.
Quote:
Prior to the silencing, there was very often more conversation in VB09 then in VB.|
Originally Posted by Fista
A few observations, if I may.
1. I don’t know when you’re on ’09 but I very rarely saw any conversation in there ,about anything, prior to the silencing. |
Quote:
| 2. From what I saw every one that was in ’09 was in the original. |
Quote:
| 3. Since ’09 was created due to a technical issue that no longer exists and you can enjoy the exact same freedom of speech in VB any way, what exactly is the big deal? |
Quote:
|
You know what? I’ve put too much time thinking about this and here’s a few questions. What the hell is our server population? A hundred or so? Why the hell do we need more than one global channel? How many global channels do we have, even? It’s not like the old days when there’d be “off topic” conversations that’d go for hours. No spamming or trolling now. Doesn’t it make sense to consolidate all the channels down to one or two? Shouldn’t we as a low pop server ™ try to stay together? |
As far as PUBLIC global channels, since VB 09 is gone, there are 3 active ones: Victory Forum, Victory Badges, Victory Limitless.
I suppose if we were to close all of these channels and make a new one (Victory Chat or Victory Teaming or something) it could work... however the Victory server is a server of very opinionated people who purposefully and kindly stay away from those they don't get along with.
For example:
Victory Forum- made largely up of forum regulars. People who post on the forums tend to have shall we say... strong opinions about things. Not everyone wants to be around people like that. Also certain personalities in VF are very "love them or hate them" type.
Victory Badges- things have gotten a bit more relaxed in this channel, but I know I have seen a few dozen times: "Badges! Keep on topic" when someone talked about something RL or non badge related or whatever. (note- I am NOT saying this is a bad thing, I am just saying that it is specifically a BADGE channel and more of a GAME related channel than a chatting channel)
Victory Limitless- the new kid (full thread here). There have been many times when builds were being discussed in VF and VB and people were told to "take it to tells." Or when someone had an awesome TF time and posted it and was later called a braggart. Victory Limitless is for speed runs, power gaming chat, hard core challenges, build chat, mentoring, helping those who want to get better, and a place to be able to boast your latest accomplishment without feeling judged. (in a lot of ways, I think some of these things are the purpose of many private channels, but I felt we needed a public channel for it)
So as you can see... all three channels are very different. I would not be surprised if everyone reading this belonged to 2 or all 3 channels because forum goers usually want to be a little more involved. There is something for everyone on Victory whether you are hardcore, casual, or in between. You can pick what you want and stay away from what you do not want. There are dozens of other public channels like Victory Monsters that are not really used anymore, but I don't think 3 is too much. We are Victory, we love each other, we hate each other, and lord help anyone who tries to mess with us, cause we will band together and destroy them lol.
~*~Madame Pistacio~*~
Guardian of CHRYSALIS
Victory Limitless- /chanjoin "Victory Limitless"
P.E.R.C. First Chair- P.E.R.C. Site, Victory Over Hamidon
Guardian of CHRYSALIS
Victory Limitless- /chanjoin "Victory Limitless"
P.E.R.C. First Chair- P.E.R.C. Site, Victory Over Hamidon
Newest event- The Great Makeover
Lol, amen MP. We may stand apart, but we never stand alone.
Quote:
Transformers Transformers Transformers STET! (:P @ viv)
|
Originally Posted by Vivace
Lol, amen MP. We may stand apart, but we never stand alone.
|
-------
Hew in drag baby
Since the full channel issue has apparently been resolved, Victory Badges 2009 has been retired. Please use '/chainjoin "Victory Badges"' to join Victory Badges instead.
Brief FAQs:
'What's the 'full channel issue'?' -- Before the /chantimeout command was implemented (and broken and refixed) Victory Badges had the maximum number of players join... including those who had inactive accounts and could not be removed from the channel. No new players could join unless someone left.
'Why Victory Badges 2009?' -- That's what a GM suggested. We had no clue at the time it would take so long to get the issue dealt with.
'Why close the channel at all?' -- We took an informal poll around the time the /chantimeout command was first implemented and about 2/3rds of both channels' population preferred to close VB09.