City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Not a pure fan of F2P

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-06-26 24:18 in Player Questions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaris View Post
I think you can add me to the list of people who see this as a good thing and are honestly puzzled by 'moral stand' opposition to it.
I hope I clarified suitably in the previous post. I needless confused the topic, to my great chagrin, and then didn't realize where the disconnect was soon enough, apparently...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radionuclide View Post
So on your little exit poll of this small subsection of quitting customers, what was the percent that might be persuaded back if the game was free? What I am getting at is that the "moral" (really poor choice of words here) decision to leave may be more an issue of an unwillingness to continue to pay for XYZ content, direction, lack of attention, etc but, they may decide to comes back and very casually play if they don't have to pay for it.


--Rad
On the topic of my tiny exit poll.... And yes, it may be utterly worthless, but until I see a larger exit poll, it's all I have to work with...

It was meant to illustrate that I think most of the people departing aren't at this point, doing so because the cost if prohibitive..

I've heard many reasons.
1) New SO thinks MMOs are for nerds...
2) Double shifts leave no time.
3) Going back to school while working, leave no time.
4) It's so awesome a game I've become addicted and afraid I'll turn into a Gollum type creature chanting, "My precioussssss," if I don't leave now while I have a shred of willpower.
5) Bad run-in with customer support/tech support.
6) I've even heard people leaving based on a moral stance (Over a differnt topic altogether, and that's where this came up, it wasn't that anyone, certainly not me, claimed F2P was morally objectionable).

But the top 2 reasons by far have been
Boredom with the grind or lack of fresh content and
Didn't like the changes in the games direction....

F2P doesn't address most of these issues, and quite frankly, nothing CoH can reasonably be expected to do can address a lot of them.

But, F2P seems directly counter-productive to addressing one of the top 2.. Now, the new special story content in it could very well address the other of the top 2. Not sure which way that will swing, but, I would think adding in that special story stuff without going to F2P would be a better way to address people leaving.

 

Posted

Great points, all. Thank you. I appreciate the well thought out reply. I'd like to touch on this one part, though..

"be that advertisements on free games..."

I'd actually be totally in favour of the billboard space and other parts of the city where one expects to see marketing contain actual marketing.. I don't know mow much revenue this would allow, but I'd be totally in favour of. I *think* that it was originally designed as such, but had an option to turn it off, and thus maybe most people did. But, I'd be fine and dandy with having that option disappear. Or maybe disappeared unless I paid an additional surcharge, which I personally wouldn't bother with. I ignore the billboards on the way to and from work for the most part, so it wouldn't hurt me to ignore in-game billboards.. I would NOT be a fan of an add banner above or below my screen, however....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaris View Post
And it's actually even less than that if you pay annually, as I think most veteran players do at this point, though I can see how a newcomer might not want to commit to that great a span of time before they know how well they like the game.

I think for many people reluctant to pay it's not so much the money itself, since this game compared to other forms of entertainment is extremely cost-effective, but rather an ongoing paradigm shift in the minds of gamers themselves - there are still significant pockets of resistance to the basic concepts behind MMOs and DLC-type content.

In other words, we still have gamers who expect to pay a single sum once and have a complete game which they can enjoy without spending any further money. While this model does still work for many games, MMOs and to an extent other games designed around having ongoing expansions/DLC use a different model with evolving content over time and this evolving content requires development time which in turn requires continued investment on the part of the player in some form. However, players (some of them, at any rate) see this as a 'ripoff' or an incomplete game, as something that should have been included in their original purchase price because "I already bought the game, why should I have to buy it again?"

The fact that the initial purchase for most MMOs is trivial as well, particularly if you aren't coming in right after any major expansions (you could pick up GvE for $10 or less and I'm sure the same will be true of GR somewhere in the not too distant future), is often ignored because the argument isn't framed in terms of how much the player is paying/has paid but rather on the idea that the player shouldn't have to pay any more, period, unreasonable as that is in this context.

While this perspective does essentially miss the point of the MMO model since it is unavoidable that some kind of revenue stream (be that advertisements on free games, micro-transactions, subscriptions or some hybrid of the above) continues to the development team in order to produce timely new content, it becomes another example of customers wanting to have their cake and eat it too - to have all the benefits of evolving content without having to subsidize that content beyond their initial purchase.

A hybrid model, hopefully, allows players to sample the benefits they can get and encourages them to pay for what they want when in a strict subscription model they would probably pass altogether. So again, I see it as a good thing and potentially something that may help some people change their perspective.

 

Posted

It disappeared not because everyone turned it off, but because no companies were willing to spend money on adspace just to get seen by a few thousand gamers. Thus, no additional revenue.

"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
It disappeared not because everyone turned it off, but because no companies were willing to spend money on adspace just to get seen by a few thousand gamers. Thus, no additional revenue.
Ah well. Bummer that.

Wonder if that's still the case. I've seen a few free games that can't have more than a couple thousand players, and likely a lot less, and they seem to have ads aplenty. I guess they could be giving away the ad space, but that seems... odd.. if true..

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickAT View Post
I know that eventually "Captain America" will air on free TV, but that doesn't mean I won't hand over ten bucks to see it at a theater without feeling the least bit "cheated." Ther's always a cost associated with "now" vs "later."
Would you feel a little cheated if you plunked down your ten bucks to see the movie in the theater, then they said anyone who wants to see it can walk into the theater for free a few weeks later? Because that's a little closer to how I feel about it.

I'm less annoyed now that I understand better how it works. Namely, the fact that if you paid for GR you keep access to it if you drop to being a Premium member, but f you got it free with your subscription you don't keep access to it. (at least that's the gist of it I got, if I'm mistaken please mention it).

The couple extra character slots are nice as well.

I'm still mildly annoyed about it, but it's nothing that's going to have me calling for anyone's head or anything. In other words, not a deal breaker for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
But, F2P seems directly counter-productive to addressing one of the top 2.. Now, the new special story content in it could very well address the other of the top 2. Not sure which way that will swing, but, I would think adding in that special story stuff without going to F2P would be a better way to address people leaving.
Didn't they basically try this with AE? Getting guest mission authors etc?
Far as I could tell it didn't do much of anything.

Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
On the topic of my tiny exit poll.... And yes, it may be utterly worthless, but until I see a larger exit poll, it's all I have to work with...

It was meant to illustrate that I think most of the people departing aren't at this point, doing so because the cost if prohibitive..
My point wasn't whether it was cost prohibitive. It was that a customer may be unwilling to pay for something due some reason they give but, may very well decide to use it if there is no cost to them.

Quote:
I've heard many reasons:
1) New SO thinks MMOs are for nerds...
2) Double shifts leave no time.
3) Going back to school while working, leave no time.
4) It's so awesome a game I've become addicted and afraid I'll turn into a Gollum type creature chanting, "My precioussssss," if I don't leave now while I have a shred of willpower.
5) Bad run-in with customer support/tech support.
6) I've even heard people leaving based on a moral stance (Over a differnt topic altogether, and that's where this came up, it wasn't that anyone, certainly not me, claimed F2P was morally objectionable).
1) Yeah the SO is a difficult thing to overcome. And not just the nerd thing... But, this reason will not really be overcome by it being free or paid. I would agree with you here. Though it is easier to hide your playtime if you don't have to explain the charges :P
2&3) These are prefect examples of what I mean. Why pay for something you may not use or may use so rarely? In this case there is no value is paying $15/mo for that time to go unused. For me, I may have the money to spend but, why if I can't play ways. It's not cost prohibitive, but, I cannot justify the expense. I would consider coming back online during the few snatches of time I may have if I don't have to pay for that time That is much more appealing from my point of view.
4) See #1.
5) You are correct here. This is the same for any product though and isn't really a reason to based the business decision on. They are not your customers or potential customers. You have already lost them. It does not matter what your business model is.
6) IMO, F2P is not a moral choice. It is not right or wrong. But, to each their own. If someone sees a subscription model in such absolute black and white as to be an ethical choice, then you are correct here. You have lost them as a customer or potential customer. I no evidence to back this statement up other then other successful F2P games, I think this is a small enough minority to not base business decisions on.

Quote:
But the top 2 reasons by far have been
Boredom with the grind or lack of fresh content and
Didn't like the changes in the games direction....

F2P doesn't address most of these issues, and quite frankly, nothing CoH can reasonably be expected to do can address a lot of them.

But, F2P seems directly counter-productive to addressing one of the top 2.. Now, the new special story content in it could very well address the other of the top 2. Not sure which way that will swing, but, I would think adding in that special story stuff without going to F2P would be a better way to address people leaving.
All I can really say here is that going F2P gives those who quit because of these reasons an easier ability to comeback, try and see if the game has improved. They do not directly address those issues surely enough. But, the do provide an opportunity of someone to try it again cost free. This is a perceived value. Those who feel this way may not feel that $15 is worth trying the game again. But, they may do so for free. And really that is what I mean by the exit poll question. How many of those that you have heard these reason from would be completely unwilling to try the game again at anytime they wish for free? The reasons they quit may or may not hold up with a deterrent to return with the incentive of the game being free. Because even if the reason is not due to cost, cost may factor in the decision to return.

--Rad

/whereami:

 

Posted

My sister currently plays LOTRO with us. She can't justify in her budget paying for another MMO right now.

When CoH goes F2P, she will be playing that with us too. She won't be a "n00b", a gold seller, one of the "unwashed masses", or any of the other stereotypes bandied about. She will be a player, just like the rest of us.

Sounds good to me.