Unemployment hits Coh/Cov


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

About 1 1/2 years ago I made my favorite toon. It was moonbeem my dark/empath defender.

I loved playing the team support in a group and found the need to be great.
The number of empaths online were few and when on team missions I always had lots to do.
It was the hardest toon I had to level as half of my powers don't really help me but support the team.
I still managed to slowly get to level 50 and enjoy all the wonderful team support powers.
I found no trouble getting into a team as they really needed a good healer.

Then a few months ago I noticed many team members were becoming so self sufficient with inspirations to heal,buff and rez.
They were also very skilled at slotting recipies and it made me seem less needed but I still found many opportunities to apply my empath powers.

Then the incarnate powers came and it took the coh/cov world little time to embrace all the power it offered.
It was then that I started to notice a terrible trend.
The empath wasnt really needed much anymore.
The new trial tf's tin man, apex, lambda, and baf all had hospitals with insperations to fill up on.
If the tf was hard and people did die (as in the battle maiden fight) it happened so fast the empath had a hard time keeping up the healing and the dead would just hosp it.
Or they wouldnt get hurt much at all so the empath would fall asleep from boredom.
Then the league was created but the empath could only focus his powers mostly on his team and not the other league teams.
Unfortunatly it seemed extremely difficult to keep track of where your team mates were when trying to heal or buff and be within range during big fights.
So if you did get lucky and find someone that needed your help (rez or healing) you had to get to them in under 1-2 seconds or they hosp it.

Then just the other day I heard the call to do a statemans tf.
I was so excited.
Finally I can play my empath and heal and buff a lot ; especially at the end with me and the tank against lord recluse.
Well the first 30 sec were a blast! The tank took lots of dmg and I would heal and buff.
Then it happend,the tank stopped getting hurt and what little he did get hit with he could deal with on his own.

I was so depresseed.
I actually had to ask the tank to get hurt so I had somthing to do.
So sad!!!
At that moment I recevied my pink slip.

I have no idea what the devs can do to fix this horrible trend as I fear
pandoras box has been opened and will be impossible to close again.

So there you have it the pratorian war has already had its first casualties!
The end of the empath!


 

Posted

Were your Buffs and Blasts broken for some reason?


Edit : Also, how come it's always the Empaths giving out about Incarnate powers rendering them obsolete? I never see Blasters posting about how the Empaths are running around with incarnate nukes on a 90 second timer or Scrapper moaning about all the Empath summoned Vickies running about making them obsolete in terms of single target damage...


 

Posted

A defender is NOT a "healer"!

I will repeat for emphasis.

A DEFENDER IS NOT A "HEALER"!

Got it?

You're a buffer/debuffer and blaster with some handy team heals that can be, on occasion, useful. If the heals aren't needed, you can buff/debuff to boost kill speeds. Also, since you don't need to constantly be buffing/debuffing, you can also blast away to boost kill speeds as well.

What you're asking to do is the equivalent of playing 18 holes of golf with nothing but a putter.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
I have no idea what the devs can do to fix this horrible trend as I fear
pandoras box has been opened and will be impossible to close again.
If by pandora's box you mean a healer thread, and by impossible you mean it'll take a while, then yes I agree.


Healers died a long time ago, long live Empathy. See the video in my sig as an example, and take extra notice at how many times I heal.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
A defender is NOT a "healer"!

I will repeat for emphasis.

A DEFENDER IS NOT A "HEALER"!

Got it?

You're a buffer/debuffer and blaster with some handy team heals that can be, on occasion, useful. If the heals aren't needed, you can buff/debuff to boost kill speeds. Also, since you don't need to constantly be buffing/debuffing, you can also blast away to boost kill speeds as well.

What you're asking to do is the equivalent of playing 18 holes of golf with nothing but a putter.
To the OPs credit, Empaths are the 'healers' of the game.

Otherwise, yeah. TV Tropes entry on City of Heroes described the Defender pretty well.

Defender (Primarily powers aiding (buff) allies or weakening (debuff) foes, backed up by medium-damage ranged attacks, defenders are among the hardest to quantify because each primary set is aimed in almost different directions ranging from the heal-tastic Empathy to the debuff kings and queens of dark)

(Not the links given lead to 'Healing Hands', 'Status Buff' AND 'Standard Status Effects')


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat View Post
To the OPs credit, Empaths are the 'healers' of the game.
No they are not! Empathy has nine powers. Three of them heal. The secondary includes nine additional powers. Your character has 24 power picks total. Three of them heal.

Empathy does not a healer make.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

This thread would have fit in perfectly about, ohhhh, five years ago.

Nice try, though.


 

Posted

Listen to the zombie, Healing bubbles will be all the rage, and you can feel like the special little gem you want to be.


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat View Post
To the OPs credit, Empaths are the 'healers' of the game.
Because they have three powers that qualify as heals? Why not just ignore the other 2/3rds of the powerset? Oh wait, there are people out there that do!



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Time to respec or use one of your two other builds and make an Offender.

Or, wait til the Keyes Trial.... healing will be much, much, much sought after.

Cue a Kevin Smith monologue about "Rockin' the Aura".



Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Just to clarify,

My post was to point out the lack of need of all the empathy powers in the teams and tf,s that I have currently been on.
Other may have been on teams which do need it and that is ok but I have not.

Endo needs. dont see em much anymore
defense needs. dont see em much anymore
healing or regeneration needs. dont see em much anymore
status protection needs ( aka-clear mind). dont see em much anymore.

The problem is the lack of need because most other toons have other ways of getting it on their own. which makes empathy dead weight and a defenders dmg (especaily dark like mine) is underwhelming in teams compared to most other archtypes. So I end up playing a different toon that has more effect on the team which brings me to my posting point.
unemployment for the empathy toon.


 

Posted

Your original post(pre-edit) had little to no mention of buffs, so I don't think you should expect people to understand that.

Anyway, nothing is needed anymore. DPS? Got dem lore pets. Debuffs? Got mah Reactive and -res procs. AoE damage? Got me dat Judgement nuke. A little bit of everything I just mentioned? I have my Blasts.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
Endo needs. dont see em much anymore
You are referencing the end game, which is challenging content where people have level 50s built with IOs. One of the first things you take care of in a build is managing your endurance. Adrenaline boost will still buff recharge, and is a great buff to keep on the team's blasters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
defense needs. dont see em much anymore
Actually you do. The raid content you seem to have issue with has enemies with higher than average tohit. Even the softcapped characters aren't anymore and need some help covering the gaps.

Even if defense wasn't needed, the +tohit and +damage from Fortitude is a very welcome buff against enemies that are higher level. Particularly to the teammates who don't have all of their level shifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
healing or regeneration needs. dont see em much anymore
These were never really needed in high level play anyway. Sure, in the low levels, healing is king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
status protection needs ( aka-clear mind). dont see em much anymore.
Clarion destiny is the source of this. It's very popular because mez is such a problem. Guess what? That means there's more time for you to use your blasts.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

... not to mention the OP seems rather unaware of the secondary effects of his/her blasts. "My damage is underwhelming!" Maybe, but you're also hitting them with a -res/-tohit/-acc/-def/-whatever in larger amounts than another AT that may have the same sets... bringing a benefit to the entire league. You can even see it yourself, solo, in sonic with Scream (believe that's the DOT) which, on its own, will have more damage at the last DOT than it did with the first.

Short form, yes, "healers" are useless. Defenders aren't.


 

Posted

If you love to spam heals on people who need heals then I know of a server. They're about 5 years behind everyone else so you've got 5 years of pure joy. You'll have to email me for the server name.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Well, at least you could have been more screwed by rolling FF instead.


 

Posted

Team with blasters they are still gimped. (If you can find people playing them at 50+)


 

Posted

Defenders are not useless!
In fact its my favorite toon type.

I currently use my rad/rad defender more than my dark/emp now due to the issues i have mentioned in my earlier posting. It is much more effective with its debuffing, ab buff is awesome , and the one healing power it has is usually more than enough for most teams I am on.

I do admit that this entire issue does revolve around the endgame.
Under level 50 the emp finds its services much more needed and is a blast to play.

I didnt get to level 50 though only to lower myself all the time just to be useful on a team.

But if you have several toons to choose for a mission and you know that your emp is not really needed then you may be like me and just not play it for one that has more to offer a team and still be fun to play.

For me fun is the key word. I dont get on teams to sit idle i want to participate and feel like I am contributing. The lvl 50 empathy toon has just hit a brick wall and lost its luster for fun.

Its the same feeling ive seen when a lonely scrapper gets on a team of ranged squishies and they kill all the baddies before the scrapper can run up to them and slice em. After doing that through the whole mission the scrapper gets a bit demoralized as he realizes he wasnt needed at all.

And yes ive seen it happen a few times even b4 the incarnate stuff and yes the scrapper is quite verbal about it.

I dont blame him. They just made him obsolete for that mission. Fortunatly that doesnt happen often on the teams I tend to get on.

If you want to play a toon with empathy be my guest. I would rather switch to a more usefull toon like my rad/rad def.
More fun and still needed!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
Its the same feeling ive seen when a lonely scrapper gets on a team of ranged squishies and they kill all the baddies before the scrapper can run up to them and slice em. After doing that through the whole mission the scrapper gets a bit demoralized as he realizes he wasnt needed at all.
This "what happens if everything is dead" gets held up a lot in talks about who's redundant. Let me set this straight: if you are on a team and that team is vaporizing every spawn before you can get to it, its not that they don't need your scrapper or your defender or your controller, its that they don't need *you*. Even if you swapped in a fire blaster you'd only be fireballing things that would have died immediately anyway whether you chose to shoot or not. I suppose you can self-deceive yourself into thinking you're helping because you see floating damage numbers, but in actuality what you are really doing is probably slowing the team down slightly by generating slightly more lag.

As to healing and other mitigation buffs, if you find the team literally not needing them at all, its probably because the team already has an overkill level of those buffs. So its not just you that is redundant, most of the people you think are making you redundant are also redundant. That's what overkill means. Most players don't mind occasionally contributing to overkill, both for damage and for mitigation.

As to the higher end content like the trials, or even most task forces, I have yet to be on one with my controller where I wasn't using heals at least occasionally. If you think healing has become completely redundant, I invite you to take radiant aura completely out of your rad/rad's tray while you play.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
This "what happens if everything is dead" gets held up a lot in talks about who's redundant. Let me set this straight: if you are on a team and that team is vaporizing every spawn before you can get to it, its not that they don't need your scrapper or your defender or your controller, its that they don't need *you*. Even if you swapped in a fire blaster you'd only be fireballing things that would have died immediately anyway whether you chose to shoot or not. I suppose you can self-deceive yourself into thinking you're helping because you see floating damage numbers, but in actuality what you are really doing is probably slowing the team down slightly by generating slightly more lag.

Funny story, I took Ionic Judgement when I knew it was bugged and was going to get hammered just because having a crashless nuke doing 1200+ points a hit just had me giggling. Funny part of the story, I was having trouble buffing up fast enough so I could cast it and still have things to hit, or even have my target still alive.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeem View Post
Endo needs. dont see em much anymore
defense needs. dont see em much anymore
healing or regeneration needs. dont see em much anymore
status protection needs ( aka-clear mind). dont see em much anymore.
See, now this is just plain wrong. I play squishy characters and I LOVE receiving buffs of pretty much any type. They make me feel all warm and toasty. Then I go out and make the enemies dead.

For Empathy in particular:
Adrenalin Boost: Ok, I don't need the recovery to much but +100% recharge is beautiful on any character and the strong regen buff helps keep me alive.
Fortitude: The defense boost is wonderful. I build for defense but I don't have enough to soft cap me in Incarnate content and extra is better anyway to combat debuffs.
Clear Mind: What squishy character does not want mez protection? Even on my Trappers Clear Mind is nice to close the sleep hole in my own mez protection.
Recovery Aura: I don't need this most of the time but it is useful against those annoying IDF guys with EMP bullets (hate them so much).
Regeneration Aura: No matter how many buffs I have, sooner or later I take damage. More regen means I recover from it faster.


So yes, as others have said. Use your buffs, they are appreciated by anyone who has any sense. If in doubt, find a nice Blaster buff him up and then laugh maniacally as he tears through everything in his path.

Once you've done that, rejoice in the fact that so few people need healing and focus on blasting your foes. Yes, Defender damage is about half that of a dedicated damage character but so what? Damage is damage, it doesn't matter whether an enemy is defeated with X powerful attacks or 2X weak attacks. The important thing is that they are defeated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Funny story, I took Ionic Judgement when I knew it was bugged and was going to get hammered just because having a crashless nuke doing 1200+ points a hit just had me giggling. Funny part of the story, I was having trouble buffing up fast enough so I could cast it and still have things to hit, or even have my target still alive.
Back before the nerf, the majority of Lambda's first part was about who can Ion the mobs first.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Back before the nerf, the majority of Lambda's first part was about who can Ion the mobs first.
I am confident that, that situation occurred often. On the teams I was playing on, even without ION and the other new nukes the 5-6 seconds it was taking to buff target and cast was enough time for a good portion of the spawns to evaporate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
No they are not! Empathy has nine powers. Three of them heal. The secondary includes nine additional powers. Your character has 24 power picks total. Three of them heal.

Empathy does not a healer make.
Eh, I think you might be overstating it a little here. Six of the empath's powers fit the "healer" mold, including the first 5 they get, not 3. Healing status afflictions, boosting regen and resurrecting are all things healers/priests/white mages do. There's more to empaths than healing, sure, but if someone asked what the healing class in CoH is then it'd more accurate to say empath than to say there is none.