Decent current-generation card?
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2011-06-13 02:44 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I'm no expert, but I do believe people will be able to provide a much more helpful advice if you provide your system specs and PSU output so they know what is actually compatible with it.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Hi Sam.
If you have to buy right now.
Nvidia: "GTX 560 Ti" seems to be the card to get right now. Although there are people who would make a case for going for the more expensive GTX 570 or spending less on the GTX 460 1GB and OC the card. There is a GTX 560 but it isn't as good as the Ti version.
ATI: Lots of tough choices. "Cheap" would be the 6850 or more expensive would be 6950.
If you have a PSU that can handle a GTX 285 then power isn't an issue and given how huge that card is, size of video card shouldn't be an issue either.
Personally, I would go with the 6950 but all of those cards are very good.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I have a question that's sort of short notice: I have a chance to snag a new video card, and I wanted to ask what a good, strong one is for the current generation of cards. I'm looking at an nVidia card, just to specify.
I haven't kept up to date on video hardware for some time now, ever since I got a GTX 285 that seems to be able to run most everything, so I haven't the foggiest as to what's current and what's a scam. Any advise on the subject is very welcome. P.S. I'm swapping out of this one because it has a hardware gremlin somewhere that I'm tired of trying to fix. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
The power supply should be sufficient, I've had it special-ordered. But if it isn't, I can get a new one. This isn't a problem. As for power specs, I have an I7 processor (4 physical cores, 4 extra virtual cores) though I'm not at my home machine and I don't know the clock speed off-hand. I have 8 GB or ram, so that shouldn't be an issue for the time being. The rest of the hardware should be up to scratch, really. Hell, the video card is pretty decent, too, but it has hardware problems of some kind, and I don't want to deal with sending it away for a week to contest a problem that's hard to reproduce.|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
I'm no expert, but I do believe people will be able to provide a much more helpful advice if you provide your system specs and PSU output so they know what is actually compatible with it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
Nvidia: "GTX 560 Ti" seems to be the card to get right now. Although there are people who would make a case for going for the more expensive GTX 570 or spending less on the GTX 460 1GB and OC the card. There is a GTX 560 but it isn't as good as the Ti version.
|
I made that mistake once upon a time of going from a 6600 GT to an 8500 plain and saw a loss of performance.I'd actually be willing to buy an older-generation card that's more powerful than shoot for the newest-latest. As a hypothetical question, what's the beefiest 400s card that's still not astronomical in cost and how does that compare to a GTX 285?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Sadly, the marketing doesn't keep with a consistant system. They also try rebadging an old chip as a new one. Example AMD/ATI 5770 -> 6770 same chip same performance.
At least on nvidia cards its currently like that in the US. (GTX 560 TI)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130604
The 400 series cards are slower and hotter than the 500 series cards. There is currently a fire sale on GTX 460 cards. Some cases in the $120 range for the 1GB card. (About 1/2 the price of a 560 Ti but with OC'ing can give the 560 a run for its money). The 570 and 580 are certainly better if you are shooting for high end. Lower end 560/560 Ti its not so clear.
Go here and compare.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU11/188
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Its always best to find a tech site with benchies so you don't get ripped off by marketing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
This reminds me to specify just a little bit. If I recall correctly, nVidia card numbers list the card generation first, then the card's class second, so a 285 would be a 200-generation 85 card. As such, wouldn't going to a 460 or 560 be a step down, or do the extra letters like "Ti" and "GTX" make up for that?
I made that mistake once upon a time of going from a 6600 GT to an 8500 plain and saw a loss of performance.I'd actually be willing to buy an older-generation card that's more powerful than shoot for the newest-latest. As a hypothetical question, what's the beefiest 400s card that's still not astronomical in cost and how does that compare to a GTX 285? |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
I always find this to be the best objective source:
Tom's Hardware Graphics Card Gamer Index
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
From all accounts I've been able to find, the 60 cards are more towards the lower end and the 70 and 80 cards are more towards the upper end. I happen to have a dealer I can trust to deliver quality and put up with customer whims, so I'll have to consult the guy in charge there, as well, but from what I'm hearing so far, I should be shooting for a 400 or 500 card that's 60 or up.
Also, the comparison site proves what I'd feared - the 80s of even the previous generation are faster than the 60s of the next one, as a 480 scores significantly higher than a 560Ti. And it also proves that the 400 cards do run much hotter. Thanks for the help. I have something to work with, which I needed by the end of the day
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Okay. The 560 cards are mid-range. They have all the features of the higher-end cards, just fewer execution units.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
From all accounts I've been able to find, the 60 cards are more towards the lower end and the 70 and 80 cards are more towards the upper end. I happen to have a dealer I can trust to deliver quality and put up with customer whims, so I'll have to consult the guy in charge there, as well, but from what I'm hearing so far, I should be shooting for a 400 or 500 card that's 60 or up.
Also, the comparison site proves what I'd feared - the 80s of even the previous generation are faster than the 60s of the next one, as a 480 scores significantly higher than a 560Ti. And it also proves that the 400 cards do run much hotter. Thanks for the help. I have something to work with, which I needed by the end of the day |
Once you start dipping into the 550 and lower, you get into budget and mobile solutions.
The 560 Ti is a damn fine card and I'm happy with mine (especially since I got it on the EVGA Step Up program for $30). Go for the "Ti" branded ones. Difference between the Ti 560's and the non-Ti 560's.
Ti: Slightly lower GPU and memory speeds, with 384 execution units.
Non-Ti: Slightly higher GPU and memory speeds, but only 336 execution units.
Basically anything that PUSHES the card will perform better on the Ti units.
Zotac has a 560Ti for $230 (bought cost) right now with a $30 mail-in rebate.
If you want crazy performance, go for the GTX 580. Highest single core performance on the market as of right now. Just be prepped for sticker shock.
Zotac has a 580 for $470 (bought cost) right now with a $40 MIR.
Would recommend against the 590 series. CoH's handling of SLI is iffy at best, and several people with single-card, multi-GPU setups have reported problems running the game (both on the nVidia side and the AMD/ATI side).
If you're going to go with a generation older, and get a 460, make sure you get a 460, not the 460 SE. The difference between the two is more or less the same as the difference between the Ti and non-TI 560s.
And yes, the *80's of one generation DO run faster than the *60's of the next generation. Their clock speeds are usually comparable and they usually have more execution units. So they work better in parallel.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
SLI on a GT285 seems to have longevity
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by afocks
|
One, this game itself has problems with single-card, multi-GPU setups. It's a known issue. As such, the 285 really isn't a viable suggestion. Nor is the 590. Nor the various AMD/ATI (DAAMIT?) multi-GPU solutions.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
You are correct in that many games and not only CoH have issues with SLI/crossfire. Crossfire reputedly less so. A single Gfx card is the best bet in my opinion. The SLI 285 provides the best overall stats for the current choices but, as you say, there are issues such as micro stuttering on multiple cards.
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
One, this game itself has problems with single-card, multi-GPU setups. It's a known issue. As such, the 285 really isn't a viable suggestion. Nor is the 590. Nor the various AMD/ATI (DAAMIT?) multi-GPU solutions.
|
Quote:
I think I may consider going one generation older and shooting for a very high-end 400 card. I spotted a few 480 cards that seemed to perform exceptionally and didn't lag TOO far behind the 580 cards the sites had to compare with. Would that be a wise decision? I don't think I can afford the "latest greatest" at any rate, and I'd rather have yesterday's greatest than today's mid range |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
If you're going to go with a generation older, and get a 460, make sure you get a 460, not the 460 SE. The difference between the two is more or less the same as the difference between the Ti and non-TI 560s.
And yes, the *80's of one generation DO run faster than the *60's of the next generation. Their clock speeds are usually comparable and they usually have more execution units. So they work better in parallel. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
It's tough to get an estimate on performance between the GTX 285 and the current crop of nVidia cards. My usual references for such things rarely go back beyond a generation. However I did find the GTX 580 and 285 on the same chart here which has the GTX 285 as 61% the speed of the GTX 580 at 1920x1200 or almost 64% faster. Now if you use the GTX 580 as the standard, then the GTX 570 would be 42% faster and the GTX 560 TI as 22% faster than the GTX 285 based on the 560 Ti and 570 data on this chart.
For power the GTX 560Ti actually is rated as using 13 watts less than the GTX 285, the GTX 570 uses 36 watts more and the GTX 580 uses 61 watts more (at 244 watts). This is based on the max wattage listed for each card at GPUReview.
Now it's a matter of price. The 560 Ti is targeted in the $200-250 market segment. If that's "lower end" as you put it then just remember it's still faster than the card you have. If you have the bucks and don't upgrade frequently then buy the fastest you can afford, whether that's the GTX 570 or the 580.
Edit: Let me point out that the GTX 570 has identical performance to the GTX 480 but uses 30 watts less.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Sam, if you are going for 400 series I have to agree with Hyperstike, 460 1gb is the way to go. Avoid the 460 SE (suck edition). Abuse the card for a couple of months and be happy you spent just over $130 when you read about the GTX 680 just being released.
Otherwise, 560 Ti, 570 and 580 are a good nvidia choices. (or heck 560 if you can get it really cheap)
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Keep in mind that higher power draw means more heat; The advantage of the newer generation video cards isn't just expressed in terms of speed, it's expressed in terms of heat and power for performance.
480s run hotter than 570s. You'll need to keep that in mind if you're going back a generation, and plan to make sure that your computer's case can handle it.
Quote:
This is no lie! I kept my window open and the heater vent closed all winter with my 480 running. 99C while gaming pumping out the back of my rig.... It'll handle anything that I throw at it though. |
Originally Posted by Starcloud
480s run hotter than 570s.
|
Quote:
The 460 is about on par with the 285, both usually benching between 5% of each other going either way. It would be a waste of money to side grade.
|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
Sam, if you are going for 400 series I have to agree with Hyperstike, 460 1gb is the way to go. Avoid the 460 SE (suck edition). Abuse the card for a couple of months and be happy you spent just over $130 when you read about the GTX 680 just being released.
Otherwise, 560 Ti, 570 and 580 are a good nvidia choices. (or heck 560 if you can get it really cheap) |
Pinnacle server
just another random dude
Quote:
You're missing the point. The 285 and the 590 *ARE* SLI cards. What's more, they're *SLI on a single card* cards. Even now, some systems and games STILL have problems with such cards.|
Originally Posted by afocks
You are correct in that many games and not only CoH have issues with SLI/crossfire. Crossfire reputedly less so. A single Gfx card is the best bet in my opinion. The SLI 285 provides the best overall stats for the current choices but, as you say, there are issues such as micro stuttering on multiple cards.
|
The 285 and the 590 are "gimmick" cards. They're for people who want SLI as simply as possible but don't understand the compromises that have been made to bring SLI to a single card (like the memory and GPUs being down-clocked to stay within the PCI-E power envelope).
If you are trying to use a 285 or a 590 for CoH, you would be better served by a 280, a 470, a 480, a 560 (for the 285), a 570 or a 580 (for the 590).
You'll pay less and your performance will be equivalent or better.
A GTX 285 USED is still going for $300+.
A brand new GTX 560Ti goes for $230 before $30 MIR. And for CoH's purposes, it's a better card performance-wise. the only time
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Ah, the 285 is a single GPU card, a faster clock, lower power version of the GTX 280. Created to compete with the HD 4870 X2 in performance and price.
The GTX 295 is the dual GPU card of that generation.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I intend to upgrade now and not touch it again any time soon. The last time I upgraded was I think either a year or a couple of years ago, and I wasn't planning on upgrading so soon anyway. Yeah, next-gen games are getting fatter and fatter, especially with the Unreal folks releasing ever more unnecessarily-detailed engines, but I feel that I shouldn't need much more processing power in the future if I get something decent now.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Now it's a matter of price. The 560 Ti is targeted in the $200-250 market segment. If that's "lower end" as you put it then just remember it's still faster than the card you have. If you have the bucks and don't upgrade frequently then buy the fastest you can afford, whether that's the GTX 570 or the 580.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vorac
This is no lie! I kept my window open and the heater vent closed all winter with my 480 running. 99C while gaming pumping out the back of my rig.... It'll handle anything that I throw at it though.
|
I seem to have gotten something of a small, cramped case, so I'll have to speak with the manufacturer to see what can be a good fit in there, but I'll shoot for something powerful, I think, and see if I can't spend the extra money now and save myself more shopping in the future. The rest of my system should be pretty solid for a while more.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I have some new information after consulting with my supplier and my benefactor, and I've received the following four offers, which will probably be negotiable if I want to go for it:
1. GTX 560, nVidia GeForce N56GOC, 1Gb GDDR5, 256 bit, 2xFAN, GIGABYTE
2. GIGABYTE nVidia GeForce GTX480, 1536Mb GDDR5, 384 bit, DVI
3. GIGABYTE GTX 560,nVidia GeForce N56GOC, 1536Mb GDDR5, 384 bit, 2xDVI, mini HDMI, 3xFAN
4. nVidia EVGA e-GeForce GTX580 SU, 1536Mb SCC
That's quite literally all the information I'm given on each of those, and I'm not sure I can parse it all. Since my budget is flexible for the moment, I at first thought of just shooting for the 580, but it's actually a cheaper card than the 560 which shows up before it. I don't know what the SU in "GTX580 SU" stands for and I don't know what an "e-GeForce" is, but I fear those may be some of the "catches" I was worried about to begin with, since the 580 is about the same price as the 480 listed above.
At this point I think I'll just go ahead and shoot for a GeForce GTX580, but I want to know what KIND of 580 I should be looking out for, since there seem to be types and types and types. I looked through the links previously in the site, but none of them seem to list what I'm being offered. Maybe it's a local thing? Anyway, I'd really, really appreciate any additional info on those four you guys can give me, as well as any info on whether I should be looking for a fifth option.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Ah, the 285 is a single GPU card, a faster clock, lower power version of the GTX 280. Created to compete with the HD 4870 X2 in performance and price.
The GTX 295 is the dual GPU card of that generation. |
Ooops! My bad.
Oh boy! Approaching senility!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
The 580 is your best bet. It's the fastest single-GPU solution extant right now.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
4. nVidia EVGA e-GeForce GTX580 SU, 1536Mb SCC
|
Not sure, but you probably have typo'ed or in-house stocking info for the card and not the EVGA model numbers.
The SCC is probably SC (short for SuperClocked). Essentially it's factory overclocked for an extra +20Mhz on the GPU and an extra +50Mhz on the memory.
Here's a comparison of the extant models on Newegg. Including a model designed specifically for water-cooled systems (you'll see the inordinately high clock speeds on that one).
Internal EVGA numbers look like:
015-P3-158#-AR. With the final # being between 0 and 9. (The 1589 is the highest clocked one and the one that's watercooled.)
The 1580 and 1584 are base-spec cards.
The 1582 and the 1587 are Superclocked.
The 1580 and 1582 show up on Newegg as having Limited Lifetime Warranties.
Anything with an -AR designation is supposed to be eligible for EVGA's StepUp program.
StepUp is thus. If you buy a card, and within 90 days, EVGA releases a new lineup of better cards, you can put in for a StepUp upgrade, pay the price difference between the two cards, send in your old card, and they'll send you the newer card.
I did this when I bought my GTX460. The new 560Ti debuted. I paid $30 and upgraded to the 560Ti.
It's possible the SU designator means that your supplier got the card as part of a StepUp deal.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Actually, it turns out I have a mistyped card name on the other big one, the 560. My benefactor pointed out to me today that while the name said GTX560, the catalogue number said "580" and looking that up through a Gygabit retailer revealed that this was, indeed, a 580 card, and the price even matched what I was given. So that's the model names and numbers sorted.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Not sure, but you probably have typo'ed or in-house stocking info for the card and not the EVGA model numbers.
|
I also spoke with my supplier to clear out the confusion and pin down what they can even acquire to sell, and I what everyone seems to be suggesting the most heartily is a Gygabit 580 card. It's a little more expensive than I'd have hoped for and I have some concerns as to whether it will physically fit inside my machine, but my supplier has promised to handle that. And I'm pretty sure that this will more or less end my PC spending for at least a couple of years, and I mean ANYTHING large-scale. The odd mouse or keyboard doesn't really count if I don't need to buy any expensive high-tech hardware, which I probably won't.
So, yeah, thanks for the assist, guys. I really appreciate it
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I have a question that's sort of short notice: I have a chance to snag a new video card, and I wanted to ask what a good, strong one is for the current generation of cards. I'm looking at an nVidia card, just to specify.
I haven't kept up to date on video hardware for some time now, ever since I got a GTX 285 that seems to be able to run most everything, so I haven't the foggiest as to what's current and what's a scam. Any advise on the subject is very welcome.
P.S. I'm swapping out of this one because it has a hardware gremlin somewhere that I'm tired of trying to fix.