Quote:
Emphasis added.|
Originally Posted by FallenValkyrja
Honestly, yes I have seen broadcasts on Virtue that have stated that they were looking for a PB or WS. I was never on mine to join up so I have no idea why. One was an ITF.
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They probably were doing a wedding RP session and needed Photon seekers to replace the rice. Either that or it was Sushi night in Steel Canyon.
Nobody's enthusiastic about it because not that many forumgoers care much about SO-based performance. I'd tend to agree with you that the kheldian inherent will need to change if the ATs' powers are going to be improved on, because the devs at least pay lip service to SO-based balanced. I'd also expect warshades are going to get slapped with power nerfs if and when that happens.
But I also think that unless the overhaul takes IOs into consideration, kheldians will at best end up the 'dual pistols' of AT choices - looking cool, but at best mediocre performers in the end game. The reason scrappers are the gold standard for performance comparison and set the baselines for pylon times or AV soloing or so on isn't because of what they can do on SOs. And the incarnate trials seem to very explicitly acknowledge IOs, such as by increasing their NPCs' base accuracy and giving them autohit debuffs and special 'boss fight mechanics' to their AVs.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Quote:
Actually they fit into several parts of that sentence. The support roles and, to some extent, crowd control are beyond Kheldians but damage dealer and tank certainly aren't. Kheldians spend a large part of the game outdamaging Blasters and retain better survivability right through 50+. They can also perform tanking duties for most content you're gonna come across. The hitch is that they're not as good in those roles as the specialist ATs that are designed to handle them. But that's because they're not supposed to be. Being top dog in one area is sacrificed in exchange for the ability to perform well in several. That's the entire concept behind a hybrid class in any game.|
Originally Posted by Crysys
"Defender/Corrupter" or "Controller/Dom" or "Damage Dealer" or "Brute/Tank" in place of the word Kheldian before. Teams know what they want/need. Kheldians, especially Kheld PB's, just will NEVER fit into that sentence.
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As for the idea that the Kheldian inherent is somehow "selfish" I'd like to point out that all of the inherent powers are. Name one inherent that directly benefits team mates. You can spin 1,000 anecdotes about how Stalkers' higher chance to crit or Defenders' End discount helps the team in a roundabout manner but the fact is there isn't a single inherent power in the game that makes team mates more survivable/deal more damage/be less stupid (
)The comparison to VEATs has been going on since I12. While it's true that their Tactical Training powers directly effect team mates, saying that they're somehow "less selfish" or more team oriented is a major stretch. Yes, that VEAT is providing buffs to your Defense, ToHit and Damage (Provided they've taken and are running all three toggles. I hardly ever do when I'm playing either of mine. Guess that makes me selfish
) but they can't turn into an offtank (Look it up if you're not familiar with the term. It's a much more accurate descriptor for Dwarf) and yank those mobs off your squishy @ss or, better yet, send them straight back to hell in a shower of energy. It's a trade off, sure. But it's one I certainly enjoy 
(Oh, and yay for higher DPS numbers! Even if they are before IOs come into play)
Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
Quote:
Well that's an interesting notion. Just how easy is it for a scrapper to reach the damage cap? Let's take an SO build dm/shield scrapper. IF AAO can keep 10 targets in its 8 foot radius then that will give the scrapper an 81% damage boost. If Soul Drain is fully saturated with 10 targets you're looking at 100% added to that for a total of 181% to add to the 194% damage already given by a fully-slotted attack power. That's 375%, which is 125% less than the scrapper damage cap of 500%. That's self buffing at fully maximized potential.|
Originally Posted by teflonshugenja
Yeah, I have to admit that I am skeptical. The Kheldian damage modifier is significantly lower than the Scrapper which means while 60% might close the initial gap, any further buffs from teammates will benefit the Scrapper far far more than they will the Peacebringer, who will hit his lower ceiling faster. So the PB might be realizing a greater % of his damage potential by himself thanks to the Inherent, but the Scrapper still has a higher top-end performance, which he is more likely to achieve since the only time this comparison happens is on large teams which are likely to have external buffs. And of course, if you're on a team large enough and well balanced enough to actually be receiving these bonuses, chances are you're steamrolling content anyway. Which means the only time you really wring any benefit out of Cosmic Balance is when that benefit matters less.
tl;dr the numbers might be correct but I'm not sure they're important. EDIT: Joe's numbers. Again, it's nice to see that a PB might be able to hit their (lower) damage cap all by themselves, but if anything that just means that they are losing out on external buffs from their teammates that the rest of the team is benefiting from. I'm not convinced this is actually a strike in the PB's favor. |
A peacebringer with just three defense archetypes on a team is getting a 60% boost to damage. Add 194% for the attack and 72% for build-up and you've got a total of 326% damage. Keep in mind we're not talking about three defenders; we're talking about a mix that can be pulled from tankers, corruptors, masterminds and defenders. In other words, it's not such specific circumstances, and since the buff is given without these other players having to DO anything, I'd argue that this too is self-buffing (while teamed).
So the scrapper at maximum self buff potential is going to get to 375% out of a total of 500% possible damage buff, or - to put it another way - 75% of the way there.
A peacebringer, by contrast, only needs what could be called average teaming conditions to get 326% out of 400%, or 81% of the way to the damage cap.
In the race to the damage cap, peacebringers win by about six percent.
Throw in a few teammate buffs, now. If an emp is on the team, then fortitude gives 31% more. If a thermal controller is there, then forge gives 40. Siphon power gives 25, and world of pain gives 16. There are others (and I'm deliberately leaving out fulcrum shift), but let's use fortitude and forge. Together, that's 71% more damage given to each, leaving the scrapper at 446% damage, or 89% of the way to the cap. The peacebringer is sitting at 396% damage now, which is obviously 99% of the way to the cap.
Even with buffers, the peacebringer reaches the cap faster.
But it's not really about the cap, is it? It's about overall performance. So let's take both of these theoretical archetypes and compare their overall performance. First, we need to deduct 194% from both of them for their attack damage, which will be represented in dps.
Next, let's take out build up and soul drain, which are both normalized and represented in their respective attack chains. AAO should be normalized too, so let's take that out.
This leaves us with 130% damage buff for the peacebringer and 71% for the scrapper.
Bill Z used three targets for soul drain, so let's use that for AAO as well and add it back to the scrapper's buff for a total of 104%.
So that's a 130% buff for the peacebringer and 104% buff for the scrapper. With me so far?
According to the best chain Bill Z and company could come up with for an so'd dark scrapper, the top dps was 141.6 add in a 104% damage buff and you've got 289 dps.
Peacebringer dps has three numbers:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 111.51
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 109.9
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 86.51
Add in 130% damage buff and it looks like:
Human damage potential (expressed in dps): 256
Nova damage potential (expressed in dps): 253
Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 198.9
So, 289 for the scrapper and 256 for the peacebringer.
Scrapper wins, obviously.
BUT that's only accounting for three other people on the team for the peacebringer. The scrapper has - unless another buffer or two is added - just about tapped his potential for damage outside of inspirations, even though he's not at the cap. The peacebringer has four other teammates from which to draw some sort of buff that - while it won't increase his damage - can potentially make him more survivable than that scrapper.
But having said all that, you are quite right about the advantages of having a higher cap. However, what we're seeing here is what many would consider a pretty balanced picture, and if we're trying to make the argument that peacebringers need help, then we'd best do it with the inherent in mind, don't you think?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Nobody's enthusiastic about it because not that many forumgoers care much about SO-based performance. I'd tend to agree with you that the kheldian inherent will need to change if the ATs' powers are going to be improved on, because the devs at least pay lip service to SO-based balanced. I'd also expect warshades are going to get slapped with power nerfs if and when that happens.
But I also think that unless the overhaul takes IOs into consideration, kheldians will at best end up the 'dual pistols' of AT choices - looking cool, but at best mediocre performers in the end game. The reason scrappers are the gold standard for performance comparison and set the baselines for pylon times or AV soloing or so on isn't because of what they can do on SOs. And the incarnate trials seem to very explicitly acknowledge IOs, such as by increasing their NPCs' base accuracy and giving them autohit debuffs and special 'boss fight mechanics' to their AVs. |
Speaking as someone whose peacebringer tanks both trials, I can honestly say I have no idea where you get the notion that khelds are having difficulty completing them. With the exception of the lamda split team insanity, I rock through them with around 100-120% damage buff and capped resistances. I can count the times I've died on one hand, and have had zero problem with feeling gimped.
I am, of course, IO'd. So I'll tell you what. Bill Z did another thread giving scrapper and brute top-end dps chains. If you good folks can agree upon a top end Peacebringer build and a top end Warshade build, I will plug those into the spreadsheets and give data from there. Hell, let me get home and I'll throw my own peacebringer build up and you can decide if it's worthy to punch in (although I'll warn ya, it's as quirky as I am).
Will that finally put the high end game argument to rest?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I didn't say 'kheldians have difficulty completing trials' I said that the trial content seems to take at least some level of IO build into account in its difficulty tuning.
Meaning that the dev statement of 'the game not being made harder for IOs' is IMO now, 'the existing game wasn't made harder for IOs, but the new trials are.'
As for the high end build thing? Sure, I'll still take your challenge up. I seriously doubt we're going to see PBs pulling down 300-400 dps even in theory, while being softcapped (let alone 59% softcapped) and also having status protection, though. And 300-400 dps is the -practical- dps (ie, pylon measuring DPS) of endgame scrappers, who are surviving tanking said pylon at the same time. But I can't even get a softcapped PB that isn't a seriously convoluted build, let alone one that's softcapped and does 200+ DPS. And contrary to what some posters might have you think, defense outstrips resistance in actual gameplay because of the debuff avoidance it affords.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Quote:
Are you sure about that? Do we have a dev statement on that?|
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
I didn't say 'kheldians have difficulty completing trials' I said that the trial content seems to take at least some level of IO build into account in its difficulty tuning.
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See, I'd say it's more "The trials have the fact their rewards can, and probably will, lead to massive buffs and level shifts built into its difficulty setting" than anything about IO builds. The trials are Incarnate trials - and based around people with Incarnate powers. They were a bear to complete the first few days, then - as more people, including khelds tyvm, got level shifts and other powers on top of familiarity - became routine.
The biggest challenge with them at this point is lag, with team coordination - not IO builds or AT selection - in second.
As the biggest fan of SoA (all 4 branches), I can tell you I never knew what PB was doing on the team except for knocking things back. I've even tried to pay attention to their damage but it didn't seem that high to me.
Warshade, on the other hand, looks a lot more flashy with those dark clouds/smoke and pets and they seem to survive better (in human form that is). I frequently see WS running ahead of everyone but PB mostly just stay on the back in human/nova form.
I recently started the project on Human PB and now Human WS. I want to level both of them so I can compare to my Fortunata and Bane/Soldier.
I really don't judge an AT based on what people request in broadcast. I think most people are narrow-minded. However, I think some people don't advertise for HEAT is that you may face Dark Crystal. I find them fun to kill but I remember several years ago, it used to summon soooo many clouds and we got team wipes all the time if we weren't prepared. And I used to hear people yell out "Quantum/Void". I didn't know why. I don't play on hero side much, period.
My Warshade is only lvl 22 but I can see the potential. Peacebringer has very little potential. It just doesn't stand out in any category except in knockbacks. I changed my Human PB to mostly Dwarf/Nova and I like it a lot more because many teams look for tanking.
After reading those numbers, I am going to pay more attention to who's on my team. I'll probably invite more "defense" oriented AT so I get more damage buffs. hehe
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Level shifts may be baked into the difficulty by the enemies being +4.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Are you sure about that? Do we have a dev statement on that?
See, I'd say it's more "The trials have the fact their rewards can, and probably will, lead to massive buffs and level shifts built into its difficulty setting" than anything about IO builds. The trials are Incarnate trials - and based around people with Incarnate powers. They were a bear to complete the first few days, then - as more people, including khelds tyvm, got level shifts and other powers on top of familiarity - became routine. The biggest challenge with them at this point is lag, with team coordination - not IO builds or AT selection - in second. |
I don't see level shifts as a particularly good explanation for the enemies having auto-hit debuffs and auto-hit powers, or 14% higher base accuracy, or being able to do enough damage in a single hit to one-shot code a 1500 health character. Those are all things that counter "characters that are only hit by one attack out of 20 on average normally." Ie, defense builds.
Considering how the devs have been using lots of words to say nearly nothing, or just plain saying nothing, ever since Castle left? I don't expect any official statements either way, and neither should anyone else.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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You'll note I said "Massive buffs and level shifts," not just "level shifts." They're designed to offset things like Barrier (which gives a nice big buff,) or be able to fight through some of the Interface debuffs. |
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Level shifts may be baked into the difficulty by the enemies being +4.
I don't see level shifts as a particularly good explanation for the enemies having auto-hit debuffs and auto-hit powers, or 14% higher base accuracy, or being able to do enough damage in a single hit to one-shot code a 1500 health character. Those are all things that counter "characters that are only hit by one attack out of 20 on average normally." Ie, defense builds. . |
No, level shifts themselves aren't enough to make enemies tougher - but buffs giving big chunks of +Def, +res, +HP, +regen and the like are - enough to ignore the "IO'd or not" question. They're still supposed to present SOME sort of challenge to 8-24 Tier-whatevered Incarnates, after all. Even ones still on SOs otherwise.
You have something of a point, but at least until the AOE buffing change goes live and people actually start using buffs more often, I don't see buffing as very prevalent in trials, beyond toggle (leadership or big bubble) and PBAOE type buffs (AM, mindlink, RA, etc). Heck, in normal content I'm pleasantly surprised when I run into buffing set characters who even have their buffs, let alone actually make a serious effort to buff me consistently for an entire mission.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Quote:
... |
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
You have something of a point, but at least until the AOE buffing change goes live and people actually start using buffs more often, I don't see buffing as very prevalent in trials, beyond toggle (leadership or big bubble) and PBAOE type buffs (AM, mindlink, RA, etc). Heck, in normal content I'm pleasantly surprised when I run into buffing set characters who even have their buffs, let alone actually make a serious effort to buff me consistently for an entire mission.
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You don't see people firing off Barrier and the like constantly in iTrials?
Really?
I'm not talking FF. I'm talking the *incarnate buffs.* The ones that provide massive (as in "Hey, look, capped!") buffs, the gaining and slotting of which are rather the *point* of the trials.
Quote:
I think those fall under the "PBAoE" category Flux mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
...
You don't see people firing off Barrier and the like constantly in iTrials? Really? I'm not talking FF. I'm talking the *incarnate buffs.* The ones that provide massive (as in "Hey, look, capped!") buffs, the gaining and slotting of which are rather the *point* of the trials. |
Quote:
From his comments, he's thinking Force Field and the like, not the Incarnate buffs. There's no reason, after all, that the *incarnate* trials would be balanced in any way around mind link, force field and the like, or even IOs (at which point, do you focus on commons, cheap sets, or purpled out monstrosities? There's no way they could realistically do so) - but they WOULD be created with the Incarnate system de/buffs in mind.
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Originally Posted by Zenyth
I think those fall under the "PBAoE" category Flux mentioned.
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Quote:
No, from his comments, he thinks its rare to see anyone doing single target buffs consistently, but "set and forget" and "drop in the clump and push for buff" arent. the Incarnate buffs are "drop in the clump and push for buff" in their intent. Though more of a "drop in the general vicinity of the clump and you're probably good" sorta way.
| I don't see buffing as very prevalent in trials, beyond toggle (leadership or big bubble) and PBAOE type buffs (AM, mindlink, RA, etc). |
Quote:
I'm looking more at the specific buffs he mentions. |
Originally Posted by Zenyth
No, from his comments, he thinks its rare to see anyone doing single target buffs consistently, but "set and forget" and "drop in the clump and push for buff" arent. the Incarnate buffs are "drop in the clump and push for buff" in their intent. Though more of a "drop in the general vicinity of the clump and you're probably good" sorta way.
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The point - which we seem to have gotten off of here - is that his statement:
Quote:
| I said that the trial content seems to take at least some level of IO build into account in its difficulty tuning. |
Using the Incarnate mobs as an argument that they "don't balance around SOs" any more, or that doing so is a bad policy/bad design/obsolete, isn't really an argument that can be supported.
Quote:
At the same time I don't think its a coincidence that the enemies in trials all conveniently have accuracy above the defensive softcap. Abnormal enough that the players asked them about why that was. I dont recall the answer the devs gave to that question, but I imagine one was given.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
While you *can* get some decent self-buffs going via IOs, the devs *cannot* balance around that - as some of us do, after all, use SOs. (Heck, finished the Trapdoor mission on my Ice/Psy Dom on SOs.) They *can,* however, start balancing/creating mobs to counter the buffs earned via the incarnate system, and that's likely what they're doing.
Using the Incarnate mobs as an argument that they "don't balance around SOs" any more, or that doing so is a bad policy/bad design/obsolete, isn't really an argument that can be supported. |
Also are you really gonna fault him for not listing every exception he could think of by name? Really? I didnt know we took ourselves that seriously around here.
Balancing the trials around incarnate powers would've presented a catch-22 on their release: you'd need the powers to do them, but need to do them to get the powers. The likely outcome of that paradigm would be people failing numerous trials and progressing based on ixp and the astral merits from what stages they could complete, before succeeding at all, like in progression raiding in ye olde 'other mmo that was really really popular 10 years ago.'
Instead, at least in my circle of friends, we were consistently succeeding at both trials from day 1 onward after only a few failures to start, during which we gained sufficient familiarity.
As for actual incarnate buff usage, I generally see three types of people with them in trials: 1 - people using them off cooldown no matter what; 2 - people using them on an occasional basis, most often to try and buff the league or else gain burst survivability like a tier 9 defense; and 3 - people not using them at all for some reason, including 'not having them yet.'
I do not see people making a concentrated effort to coordinate destiny buffing of the whole league to any effective level on a consistent basis. The amount of effort it would take to do so would be prohibitive anyway, given approximately 1 minute of high-efficiency buffing per destiny power. The league would have to group hug and the designated people use their destiny every minute. You can't even get people to stand still long enough to get 2 bubbles cast on them every 4 minutes normally.
And meanwhile, the form that the incarnate content difficulty takes is fairly closely focused on accuracy and defense-busting. There's not nearly as much -resist, -regen, or -recovery as there is -defense and +tohit. Considering that directly addresses one of the biggest disparities between heavily IO'd characters and lower-tier builds, I don't think it's a coincidence. Edit: You're free to disagree, and I've never presented this as anything but an opinion. It's my observation that the trials include a lot of defense-busting enemies. It's my analysis of that observation that this is a counter-measure to 45% soft-capping IO builds. Amusingly, this counter-measure comes down even harder on non-defense characters, in my experience. My softcapped widow survives much better in the trials than my non-softcapped willpower brute or my fire armor brute. Or my 2 friends' peacebringers, or one friend's warshade.
The higher accuracy of trial mobs was noted, and asked about, in the testing phase. There was no dev comment on it, at least so far as I remember.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Quote:
Lemme save you some time, you're gonna be disappointed. Why? Because without the forms you won't be realizing the full potential of either. It's apples to oranges anyway but you're definitely gonna have a skewed view if you run Human only builds.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I recently started the project on Human PB and now Human WS. I want to level both of them so I can compare to my Fortunata and Bane/Soldier.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
The higher accuracy of trial mobs was noted, and asked about, in the testing phase. There was no dev comment on it, at least so far as I remember.
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Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
Okay, here's my build - it's not the best build coming or going, but there it is. Anyone got a better one post it here. I'm sure someone does, BUT if I don't hear back in a reasonable amount of time I"ll just use this one.
|MxDz;1558;698;1396;HEX;|
|789C6594DB4E13511486D7B4D3567AA0142894931C0484028 5466E8D01C18458A009|
|C6DBA6C04027942999162277BE85575C19F58AF80C3E1082A 251C3C9B5D73F2DC374|
|27F075FFF3ED3DABFBD0D5774B51A2F72F88DA5F968BD56A2 16F14B78C4DDBB4760D|
|3BB456AC1DDAC57264D136774BB56AAD62EF878868CC2D15D 677760CAB6A1E1999DC|
|E1BE69550EAB85459EAA36FAC05A329AAC059E3BB162950CD BB06A99FA8770BE5229|
|67360E0C633B211F57AC23B36A6E9A65B3761C97246714B70 DBB5A320F62D27FA5AA|
|E3D7F42D1F985B99B7CB0B6F0A39E3C82CD64A45ABB0CAA51 8F6718AEBCEF0DFBF00|
|35DA1D373A7305298D284C579C68D2F76B9FF97F967C1F814 F02FD8BE09C353F34FF|
|141E00C15137AE59735E11F8E053C90D77431818DA11E7D12 E600AC27B8C091A61A7|
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|D9AF35F560765553DB3FBB86DEBADC956C5E7ADDDEFDE8F40 66761CF067DF706E7AE|
|0057F3A291F834FC266587C885FF7A45E1E1|
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
I'll take your word for it. Lord knows my brain isn't up to slogging through them right now. |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
SO MANY NUMBERS
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It's nice to see that at least one aspect of PBs isn't as bad as it has been made out to be.I do wonder how relevant balance concerns that revolve around SOs are in the current environment, though. I'd love to believe that it's still a useful baseline of comparison, but at this point the Invention system has been around long enough that it seems odd not to acknowledge that it has altered performance expectations across the board.
I really would love to go back and pick up my PB again. I like the character. I just can't stand playing him anymore and I have no idea how to build him well or whether it's even possible for him to operate on a level with my other 50s. So he sits on a shelf at the moment.
Quote:
Peacebringers play much better without forms.
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Originally Posted by Timeshadow
Lemme save you some time, you're gonna be disappointed. Why? Because without the forms you won't be realizing the full potential of either. It's apples to oranges anyway but you're definitely gonna have a skewed view if you run Human only builds.
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Quote:
Well, think about it - |
Originally Posted by Zenyth
At the same time I don't think its a coincidence that the enemies in trials all conveniently have accuracy above the defensive softcap. Abnormal enough that the players asked them about why that was. I dont recall the answer the devs gave to that question, but I imagine one was given.
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Creating these trials, they *knew* nobody would be at top (or even "mid-incarnate") power. At best, somebody would have a Tier4 Alpha.
Do they balance at that point? No. Why? Because in very little time - as has been shown multiple times - players are going to work their way up. If they don't leave it at a challenging level, but at that *base* level - where accuracy above softcap, for instance, seems "abnormal," then the content itself will be trivialized in a matter of days, with multiple players having the powers to counter that - and by dint of playing with others, raising others to those same levels.
So, no, it certainly wasn't a coincidence. It was absolutely by design - but not to counter IO-softcapped/etc builds, but to offset the very powers they're granting to multiple players at once in those self-same trials. Softcapped builds may hit those same numbers, sure, so they're effective versus them - but I see that more as a (happy or not, depending on your stance on it) side effect as opposed to a root cause.
Quote:
| Also are you really gonna fault him for not listing every exception he could think of by name? Really? I didnt know we took ourselves that seriously around here. |
And if I can snag his later comment:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Flux_vector
I do not see people making a concentrated effort to coordinate destiny buffing of the whole league to any effective level on a consistent basis. The amount of effort it would take to do so would be prohibitive anyway, given approximately 1 minute of high-efficiency buffing per destiny power. The league would have to group hug and the designated people use their destiny every minute.
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So, there's no need to call for a "group hug." The points come up naturally.
Quote:
... er.... sure. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Peacebringers play much better without forms.
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Peacebringers have more flexibility in not *using* the forms, I'll grant - I even make mention of it in my guide. Peacebringers give up status protection, a resist boost and second heal (dwarf) primarily.
I've run triform and human form to 50. Human's easier to slot. I don't think, though, that I would agree they play "much" better without forms. They play differently - but they're not at the (lost second mire) disadvantage of Warshades without them.
What I have experienced is: "I had no idea that ((PB/WS)) could lay out that much hurt."
My PB is still my fastest toon to 50. She did solo missions and I teamed with my SG to run TFs and other missions such as the Maria Jenkins arc. Human only and she has been a lot of fun to play. I am currently trying to rework her build since it has not been updated in some time (pre AE).
As far as the inherent goes, it has worked for me so far. It would be nice to have a little bit of extra defense to go with the resistance plus some extra damage.