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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
| Dwarf damage potential (expressed in dps): 291.01 |
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Your Warshade Human ST chain appears to be using Grav Well>Grav Snare*3 without including the recharge time you will need to wait for Grav Snare to recharge between uses. (If I am reading it right).
You could fix this by using Grav Well>Grav Snare>Ebon Eye>Grav Snare, for a minor loss in dps I think.
If I am totally off here, disregard; spreadsheets are not my thing.
Edit: Question, is your Fluffy dps per fluffy or per average number of fluffies you could keep out? Looks like it's for ~3 fluffies.
Edit2: Your WS Nova ST chain would be better as Blast>Emanation>Blast>Detonation, which does ~133 dps from your spreadsheet, as opposed to the 128 you currently have. It also allows for the whole chain to recharge in time; as you have it, Detonation does not have time enough to recharge.
Edit3: How many enemies are you counting as having mired for Dwarf's single target chain?
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I'm coming off of 21 straight days at work, so I might be a little bleary-eyed. I'm also not the best at attack chains.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Your Warshade Human ST chain appears to be using Grav Well>Grav Snare*3 without including the recharge time you will need to wait for Grav Snare to recharge between uses. (If I am reading it right).
You could fix this by using Grav Well>Grav Snare>Ebon Eye>Grav Snare, for a minor loss in dps I think. If I am totally off here, disregard; spreadsheets are not my thing. |
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| Edit: Question, is your Fluffy dps per fluffy or per average number of fluffies you could keep out? Looks like it's for ~3 fluffies. |
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| Edit2: Your WS Nova ST chain would be better as Blast>Emanation>Blast>Detonation, which does ~133 dps from your spreadsheet, as opposed to the 128 you currently have. It also allows for the whole chain to recharge in time; as you have it, Detonation does not have time enough to recharge. |
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| Edit3: How many enemies are you counting as having mired for Dwarf's single target chain? |
For this spreadsheet, however, it takes teammates into account, and so I assumed three targets hit by the mire across the board (both dwarf and human)
At least, I hope I remembered to change the figures in all places.
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That's because the dwarf has enough recharge in its mire to maintain a consistent double mire buff. I didn't see anywhere that it doesn't stack with itself, but I could be wrong on that. And don't forget three fluffies contributing damage.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Hmmm. Loaded the build you're using in mids, toggled on Human mire with three, Dark sustenance with 3, and Dwarf Mire with 6, and I'm not getting the damage numbers for the Dwarf attacks listed.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
That's because the dwarf has enough recharge in its mire to maintain a consistent double mire buff. I didn't see anywhere that it doesn't stack with itself, but I could be wrong on that. And don't forget three fluffies contributing damage.
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Originally Posted by _Dawun_
Would there be a problem if the Dev's swapped a portion of the +dmg bonus from the inherent and in order to add more damage to Kheldian powers across the board?
They could do a fix similar to what was done for dominators instead of defenders. Dominators had the extra damage from domination removed and added to their powers. I don't want our damage buff removed completely, but the Devs could cut our 20% dmg buff by 5-10% and add more damage to all powers to balance this loss. We would have more consistent damage instead of allowing random players to sway our inherent boost from 0-140%. We wouldn't need 3 team members of a specific type to break even with other damage dealers and it would give us better damage while soloing. |
yup! I'd take me some of that.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Dangit! Lemme go back and check...|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Hmmm. Loaded the build you're using in mids, toggled on Human mire with three, Dark sustenance with 3, and Dwarf Mire with 6, and I'm not getting the damage numbers for the Dwarf attacks listed.
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EDIT - Okay, here's what I did. Let's take Black Dwarf Smite for an example. In Mids, it does 145.3 points of damage.
Okay add 60% damage for dark sustenance and you've got 232.48, right?
Now we weight it for Sunless Mire. What I mean by weighting it is taking a sampling of the power's damage over a period of time when Sunless Mire is up and not up. To find its uptime, I took its duration of 30 seconds, divided that by its recharge and multiplied that result by the damage buff from three enemies (33.75%)
(30/50.72)*.3375=.199
...or a 20% average overall damage boost. Add that to the damage total and you've got 278.9 damage.
Am I doing this right so far?
Because I could be wrong. Wouldn't surprise me.
ANYWAY, let's look at that dwarf attack chain, which begins with Black Dwarf Mire. BDM gives an 11.25% boost to damage for every enemy hit that lasts for ten seconds. As the attack chain is 6.4 seconds long, the first mire buff will be active when the second one begins, and will last up until the last attack activates, or just long enough to apply the boost before expiring.
So add a 22.5% damage boost to that 278.9 damage and you've got 341.75 points of damage which is well past the 400% damage cap, so the power caps out at 293.6.
Now the damage cap, according to Paragon Wiki, includes 100% for the power's unenhanced damage, and then whatever enhancement is put in the slots. So before the warshade was teamed or mired the power was sitting at 191.99% damage. Add in 33.75% buff from sunless mire, 22.5% buff from a double dwarf mire and a 60% inherent buff and boom. You're over the cap.
Unless, of course, I'm doing that wrong. In which case: boom. Joe is wrong.
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Joe, you're gonna laugh when you realize what you did. You are taking the damage value of Smite with IO's in it for your base value instead of the actual base value of the power. Smite with the IO's in that build and just the 60% from dark sustenance is coming out to 189.4. Everything from there on just magnifies the discrepancy. If I count the value with IO's as the base damage, adding 60% to it gives me the number you had.
To clarify for those who don't know, damage buffs work off of your base damage value, not after enhancements/other buffs are added. Joe is just having a sleepy moment ;D
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The recharge+activation of Sunless mire on that build is 37.608; not sure where the 50.72 you have is coming from. Your equation should end up (30/35.608)*.3375=.28 |
Now we weight it for Sunless Mire. What I mean by weighting it is taking a sampling of the power's damage over a period of time when Sunless Mire is up and not up. To find its uptime, I took its duration of 30 seconds, divided that by its recharge and multiplied that result by the damage buff from three enemies (33.75%) (30/50.72)*.3375=.199 |
Edit: And actually, for Sunless mire with forms, you should add in the form shift animation with recharge/activation so... (30/37.825)*.3375=.27
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Ack! I knew better than that, too! Laugh is not a word I would use for my reaction.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Joe, you're gonna laugh when you realize what you did. You are taking the damage value of Smite with IO's in it for your base value instead of the actual base value of the power. Smite with the IO's in that build and just the 60% from dark sustenance is coming out to 189.4. Everything from there on just magnifies the discrepancy. If I count the value with IO's as the base damage, adding 60% to it gives me the number you had.
To clarify for those who don't know, damage buffs work off of your base damage value, not after enhancements/other buffs are added. Joe is just having a sleepy moment ;D |
Sigh. Alright - I'll fix as I get time. Thanks for catching that.
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The recharge+activation of Sunless mire on that build is 37.608; not sure where the 50.72 you have is coming from. Your equation should end up (30/35.608)*.3375=.28 Edit: And actually, for Sunless mire with forms, you should add in the form shift animation with recharge/activation so... (30/37.825)*.3375=.27 |
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It's ok, I just realized I messed up the correction I posted by not including the SM activation time |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
And here we have the perfect example of why Smiling Joe should not do spreadsheets at 2 in the morning after working all day. I have no idea where that 50.72 comes from either. I either mistyped or looked at something else. Ugh. It all looks the same when you're tired.
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It should be (30/39.862)*.3375=.25
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We should be counting Orbiting Debt in wshuman as well. Also, a better chain for wshuman ST would be something like G.Well>G.Snare>Shadow Blast>G.Snare, and we could put Shadow blast in that build without really changing anything. Sorry Joe, I'll go away now 
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With the "Coming Storm" slated for Issue 21 (and probably beyond) and Kheldians being heavily tied into the story behind it, I hope the Devs see this as a great opportunity to do something about the Kheldian issues.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
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Dont we all...|
Originally Posted by Ashlocke
With the "Coming Storm" slated for Issue 21 (and probably beyond) and Kheldians being heavily tied into the story behind it, I hope the Devs see this as a great opportunity to do something about the Kheldian issues.
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But since silence and the same old runaround ("We'd love to work on you when we have time") is all we usually get, I'd not advise holding your breath.
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Could have been an all Kheldian Task Force..
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Originally Posted by FallenValkyrja
Honestly, yes I have seen broadcasts on Virtue that have stated that they were looking for a PB or WS. I was never on mine to join up so I have no idea why. One was an ITF.
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Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
Ok here is an idea
Currently the more team mates the more we get buffed
How about we ask that we keep that part
But ask for a mirror image added to the inherent
That allows us to debuff the enemy
But that power gets weaker with each team added
That way we are not overpowered whem on teams
But able to solo better
Make the warshade and pb debuff different things so tjat if the 2 of them duo they would debuff everything
Example
WS -dam, -regen, -res
PB -def,-to hit, -end
Laserblitz
"Kicking digital a$$ and taking "trademarked by NCsoft" names since 2007"
If you see a rainbow costume or named "Emcc" it is me
Quote:
Umm, issue 21 is not 'The Coming Storm'. In fact, in a Non-Ouroboros mission, I don't believe we can or will experience the so-called 'Coming Storm'. It's possible that our one previous (and scheduled future) Shivan meteor assault event are precursors, but there's nothing I know of that indicates that the Shivans are the 'Coming Storm'.|
Originally Posted by Ashlocke
With the "Coming Storm" slated for Issue 21 (and probably beyond) and Kheldians being heavily tied into the story behind it, I hope the Devs see this as a great opportunity to do something about the Kheldian issues.
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Sorry, the Apocalypse is not on the calendar.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Interesting points but those numbers don't tell the whole story. I've never been on a team with a Warshade when my Peacebringer didn't have greater survivability for instance. Maybe it's becasue they have to take greater risks in order to fully benefit from their powers or whatever but I always outlast them and I'm by no means an uber player.
I would like more damage for my PB to be sure but from my experience Warshades need more help with not dying so much more than they need increased damage. Maybe a crowd control proc would help with that but not sure.
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Interesting points but those numbers don't tell the whole story. I've never been on a team with a Warshade when my Peacebringer didn't have greater survivability for instance.
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If you have anything on Protector, I'd be glad to give you a demonstration.
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That would only prove how well you play or how great your build is and wouldn't change the fact that the vast majority of Warshades I run into in the game seem much squishier or just harder for people to master than my Peacebringer is for me.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
If you have anything on Protector, I'd be glad to give you a demonstration.
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That can be said for anything in the game. A well played anything is going to perform better than the same exact thing when poorly played, Peacebringers and Warshades included. The point is that a well played warshade can outperform a well played peacebringer (in pve) almost all the time.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
That would only prove how well you play or how great your build is and wouldn't change the fact that the vast majority of Warshades I run into in the game seem much squishier or just harder for people to master than my Peacebringer is for me.
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I have no idea what's giving you the impression that your PB is more survivable than a warshade. With what, light form? Every so often when it's up, I guess you'll be as survivable as a warshade is all the time with eclipse. But then your HP and endurance crash, and you won't be able to use it again for like a week. Oh yea, you also can't change forms while it's up.
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Just the fact that most Warshades I team with end up dying more quickly and more often than I do on my Peacebringer which is something I've noticed pretty consistently but then again that might be part of their strategy. The main advantage seems to be the three heals I can rely on more readily while they have to scramble for bodies or enemies more which is not always easy.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
That can be said for anything in the game. A well played anything is going to perform better than the same exact thing when poorly played, Peacebringers and Warshades included. The point is that a well played warshade can outperform a well played peacebringer (in pve) almost all the time.
I have no idea what's giving you the impression that your PB is more survivable than a warshade. With what, light form? Every so often when it's up, I guess you'll be as survivable as a warshade is all the time with eclipse. But then your HP and endurance crash, and you won't be able to use it again for like a week. Oh yea, you also can't change forms while it's up. |
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I had a PB with 6 full purple sets and all the other awesomesest (hehe) IOs and I know I player her well - none of that ever gave me 300% damage bonuses and 85% resist to Everything *while* having Pets out. Yes, Warshades powers are often situational (needing bodies) but when those situations exists in the game 95% of the time... Well I'm not that great at math, but even I see the obvious.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Just the fact that most Warshades I team with end up dying more quickly and more often than I do on my Peacebringer which is something I've noticed pretty consistently but then again that might be part of their strategy. The main advantage seems to be the three heals I can rely on more readily while they have to scramble for bodies or enemies more which is not always easy.
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This is a losing battle. The Best Played Warshade outperforms the Best Played PB.
The worst played Warshade might be outperformed by the worst played PB, because Warshades are a little harder to play (requiring more timing and being able to spot oppurtunities, which the 'worst' player might not do so well) while PBs are more 'plug and play'. But this should *not* be the yardstick we're measuring things by,
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Just the fact that most Warshades I team with end up dying more quickly and more often than I do on my Peacebringer which is something I've noticed pretty consistently but then again that might be part of their strategy. The main advantage seems to be the three heals I can rely on more readily while they have to scramble for bodies or enemies more which is not always easy.
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Are you one of those people who posts "LF Healerz" in broadcast?
Oooh. Nosferatu. I've got that around here somewhere... as well as Fritz Lang's Metropolis - which, I hear, there's a new version of with more formerly lost footage. Must find.
... and vaguely related to that, how I feel leading just a *team* in a trial....
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