Ice is a wonderful powerset. I have in all 15 lvl 50 Ice Tanks spread throughout all the servers.
This is my build.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Santa Laws: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- SW-ResDam/Re TP:50(A), SW-Def:50(3), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), SW-Def/EndRdx:50(5), SW-Def/Rchg:50(5)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- GA-3defTpProc:50(A), Aegis-Psi/Status:40(7), Aegis-ResDam:50(7), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(9), ImpSkn-Status:30(9), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx:30(11)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- ImpSwft-Dam%:30(A), ImpSwft-Acc/Slow:30(19)
Level 6: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 8: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Permafrost -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(19), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(21), Aegis-ResDam:50(21)
Level 12: Icicles -- Sciroc-Dam%:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(23), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(25), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(27)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- S'dpty-Def:30(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(27), Zephyr-Travel:50(29), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(29), Zephyr-ResKB:50(31)
Level 16: Build Up -- GSFC-Build%:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit:50(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(31)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- SW-Def:50(A), SW-Def/EndRdx:50(33), SW-Def/Rchg:50(33), SW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- SW-Def:50(A), SW-Def/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx:50(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- SW-Def:50(A), SW-Def/EndRdx:50(34), SW-Def/Rchg:50(36), SW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Zinger-Dam%:50(37)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Hectmb-Dmg:50(39), Hectmb-Dam%:50(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39)
Level 30: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Mrcl-Heal:40(40)
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword -- Mako-Dam%:50(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(40), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), Zinger-Dam%:50(42)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Armgdn-Dmg:50(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg:50(43), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Zinger-Dam%:50(45)
Level 41: Chilblain -- Apoc-Dam%:50(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Apoc-Dmg:50(46), GJ-Dam%:30(46), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(48)
Level 44: Block of Ice -- G'Wdw-Dam%:50(A)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Ragnrk-Knock%:50(A), Ragnrk-Dmg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50), JavVoll-Dam%:30(50)
Level 49: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 0: Call to Justice
Level 0: Zero-G Pack
Level 50: Cryonic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Seers Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Diamagnetic Radial Flawless Interface
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I:50(A), Run-I:50(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(13), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(17), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(17)
I realize that some this cannot apply to everyone becasue not everyone has the 60 month vet reward, or for that matter, why there are some things that seem to be missing and not others.
Also, when it comes to Incarnate powers, I must tell you... I have all four T4 Alpha slots as well as T4s in most ofthe other incarnate powers. This is because I have not found the perfect combination of enhancements for my build.
Your build on the other hand is decent, but from experience I have a couple of suggestions:
1. Lose Hasten. Use your autotrigger to activate Energy Absorption. The reason is that even with my slotting, I run out of END on occasion. Slotted Stamina like you have will make it more likely. By autofire EA, you activate it and absorb END more regularly. Additionally, you dont' need to be able to trigger your attacks quicker with Hasten if it means running short of END faster.
2. Lose Tough. Move one slot from somewhere else to Permafrost and plave that steadfast there. Permafrost is auto and you will not have the END usage from tough to contend with. Additionally, steadfast will trigger every 10 seconds and provide protection well into the next activation.
3. Pick up Manuvers. Place it in the slot you got rid of Tough in. Remember, your bread and butter is defense.
I have all these in my build, so look at it and decide how you like it. Also feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Quote:
I disagree with all of these suggestions, though the issue of Hasten is mostly a matter of personal preference. I like to have it to shorten the recharge of Hoarfrost as well as attacks.|
Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
1. Lose Hasten. Use your autotrigger to activate Energy Absorption. The reason is that even with my slotting, I run out of END on occasion. Slotted Stamina like you have will make it more likely. By autofire EA, you activate it and absorb END more regularly. Additionally, you dont' need to be able to trigger your attacks quicker with Hasten if it means running short of END faster.
2. Lose Tough. Move one slot from somewhere else to Permafrost and plave that steadfast there. Permafrost is auto and you will not have the END usage from tough to contend with. Additionally, steadfast will trigger every 10 seconds and provide protection well into the next activation. 3. Pick up Manuvers. Place it in the slot you got rid of Tough in. Remember, your bread and butter is defense. |
And while I feel that Tough is useful in itself, the real benefit is that it opens up Weave, which has twice the defense of Maneuvers at a smaller endurance cost. Granted, it takes 3 power slots to get Weave, but IMO it's worth it unless you're critically short of power slots, and I find that's much less often the case now that Fitness is inherent.
Also, it makes absolutely no difference where you put the Steadfast +Def, since it is a global and by definition 'always on'. Hoarfrost, Tough and PF work equally well for Ice.
To the OP:
The biggest problem with this build is that you have too much S/L defense and are not soft-capped to E/NE. Adjust your slotting accordingly.
All of your defense toggles are underslotted for end reduction. I would try to free up another slot for each and put in the LotG Def/End/Rchg.
The additional slot in PF is giving you just an additional 3% Fire resistance; you'd get more use out of that slot elsewhere.
Frozen Fists could use another slot. The CI Acc/Dam you have in Ice Sword is fine, though I prefer the Mako's Acc/Dam/End/Rchg.
Ice Armor absolutely does NOT need additional KB protection! Drop the KB IO in SJ and put a common jump IO there instead.
Use Eradication in Icicles and Frozen Aura instead of Obliteration so you'll be soft-capped to E/NE. Use 3-4 Erad and a slot of two from another set to make sure you have sufficient end reduction.
Ice Patch is perma with just one recharge slot, so pull two slots from it and use them elsewhere.
EDIT: Urgh, posted before I meant to!
To continue:
EA is underslotted for Defense; I'd go with PS EndMod, EndMod/Rchg, EndMod/Acc/Rchg and LotG Def/Rchg, Defense, and +Recharge instead.
Try to free up 4 slots and put a Reactive Armor set in Tough. The Steadfast +Def can go in PF or as a 6th slot in Hoarfrost.
Greater Ice Sword is regarded pretty much universally as a crappy attack. I'd drop it and get Frozen Touch instead.
Hibernate gets no benefit from recharge slotting. Slot it with a Heal or Endmod common and call it a day.
WHOA! Just now noticed that you do not have Chilling Embrace--correct that immediately! Not only is it your taunt aura (critical to have since you don't have Taunt,) but the slows provide a lot of damage mitigation. I'd drop Permafrost and get CE instead.
Here's what I would do with your build. It still has a lot of S/L def, so you could easily replace the Kinetic Combat sets with Smashing Haymaker and save yourself a ton of influence. Alternatively, you could use one KC set and slot the other ST attack with something like Crushing Impact.
P.S. You're two over the rule of 5 on 9% acc bonuses, but there's not much that can be done about that unless you want to replace some of the Positron's Blast sets.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-Heal:50(A), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(29)
Level 4: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Frost -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), Posi-Dam%:50(15)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(17), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(40)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Icicles -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(19), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(21)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:20(A), RechRdx-I:50(25)
Level 22: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(31), LkGmblr-Def:50(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(33), P'Shift-EndMod:50(37)
Level 28: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(50), RctvArm-ResDam:40(50)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 35: Freezing Touch -- Hectmb-Dam%:50(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 41: School of Sharks -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Posi-Dam%:50(43)
Level 44: Arctic Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Posi-Dam%:50(46), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(46)
Level 47: Bile Spray -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dam%:50(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(27), P'Shift-End%:50(27)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 11.75% Defense(Smashing)
- 11.75% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 10.5% Defense(Energy)
- 10.5% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 7.375% Defense(Melee)
- 6.75% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 3.6% Max End
- 60% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 77.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 260.03 HP (13.88%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 6.6%
- MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 14% (0.234 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (3.912 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 10.08% Resistance(Fire)
- 10.08% Resistance(Cold)
- 5% RunSpeed
Code:
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My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
I agree with Finduilas with the KB prot. Most baddies you run into dose no more then 10 KB. Second off why do u have miracle +rec in hibernate? You do not get the benefit unless the power is active. It would be better in say for instance health. You also got to remember that is a very expensive build there where most can not afford it either.
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Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
I realize that some this cannot apply to everyone becasue not everyone has the 60 month vet reward, or for that matter, why there are some things that seem to be missing and not others. Also, when it comes to Incarnate powers, I must tell you... I have all four T4 Alpha slots as well as T4s in most ofthe other incarnate powers. This is because I have not found the perfect combination of enhancements for my build. Your build on the other hand is decent, but from experience I have a couple of suggestions: 1. Lose Hasten. Use your autotrigger to activate Energy Absorption. The reason is that even with my slotting, I run out of END on occasion. Slotted Stamina like you have will make it more likely. By autofire EA, you activate it and absorb END more regularly. Additionally, you dont' need to be able to trigger your attacks quicker with Hasten if it means running short of END faster. 2. Lose Tough. Move one slot from somewhere else to Permafrost and plave that steadfast there. Permafrost is auto and you will not have the END usage from tough to contend with. Additionally, steadfast will trigger every 10 seconds and provide protection well into the next activation. 3. Pick up Manuvers. Place it in the slot you got rid of Tough in. Remember, your bread and butter is defense. I have all these in my build, so look at it and decide how you like it. Also feel free to contact me if you have any questions. |
Thanks alot for the advice Finduilas, i really appreicate it. I have changed both Kinetic combat sets, one to smashing haymaker and the other to crushing impact. When i get EA going it will be more then enough def.
I am a bit concerned about the dmg out put though. I have never ran a tanker before but i have 2 brutes so i will be trying not to compare the dmg out put. I wish brutes got ice/ice lol. Do you think with all those cones i will be doing enough dmg?
Quote:
Why do you have Acro?
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Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
Ice is a wonderful powerset. I have in all 15 lvl 50 Ice Tanks spread throughout all the servers.
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Go with Finduilas's suggestions - pretty much what I would do anyway. Only gripe I have with his build is I prefer to get Freezing Touch at 28, putting off Build Up to 35, if necessary.
As far as defense goes you can drop one set of Kinetic Combats and an Eradication in lieu of Crushing Impact and Obliteration for more recharge. If you don't have that Hecatomb set already, I would suggest 6 slotting Freezing Touch with 4 Basilisk Gaze and 2 common Dmg IOs. That slotting, coupled with increased global recharge, will let you perma hold bosses. Additionally, the defense from Basilisk Gaze would softcap your e/n defense without those Eradication sets if you wanted to try something else. Not discounting Finduilas, just proposing alternatives.
I'm pretty partial to shooting for at least 1% hp/sec regen on defense sets. More is better if you're not popping greens or using Aid Self. Also, interesting suggestion: if you can squeeze a 6th slot into Frozen Aura, pop a Call of the Sandman: Chance to Heal proc into it. Not reliable, sure, but it can be quite helpful if you like to stay at the aggro cap.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
If you're super concerned for damage output, Ice Melee may not be for you. That said, it is far better than it used to be. Once you get Frozen Aura it will be a lot nicer, similar to how /SS users feel when they get Foot Stomp. Utilizing all of those cones will up your overall damage considerably. However, maximizing their usage could become tedious and even hinder your survivability. Ice Armor feels most at home in Melee/PbAoE range. |
Originally Posted by Madamme Mayhem
Thanks alot for the advice Finduilas, i really appreicate it. I have changed both Kinetic combat sets, one to smashing haymaker and the other to crushing impact. When i get EA going it will be more then enough def.
I am a bit concerned about the dmg out put though. I have never ran a tanker before but i have 2 brutes so i will be trying not to compare the dmg out put. I wish brutes got ice/ice lol. Do you think with all those cones i will be doing enough dmg? |
CE, Icicles, EA, FA, and your melee attacks are pretty dependent of you pretty much being surrounded. I'm NOT saying don't go Leviathan. I'm just saying be prepared to move around a lot to get the most out of your cones.
Honestly, though, the AoE damage I can put out on my Ice/Ice/Soul is pretty decent (and I don't have Dark Obliteration). My main concern with my Icer was single target damage, which was fixed with the addition of Gloom. I'm running 82.5% global recharge and Hasten, which gets just shy of perma when I use Spiritual Alpha (mainly use Cardiac) and that allows me to spam the crap out of FA and Frost.
All in all, be prepared to not be on top for damage while leveling. Once you hit 50 and finalize your build (actually get it slotted on your tank) you'll be pretty happy with it, I think.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
Because I had to take something. Acrobatics just means that I will never be knocked back... not that I was ever.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Why do you have Acro?
|
Quote:
I never said it wasn't an extreme build, I think it speaks for itself. As far as Miracle: +rec in hibernate, look at the set bonuses in health first. It is slotted in hibernate for a bonus in hibernating. I hibernate when I am low on baddies in melee range AND low endurance. It is very situational.|
Originally Posted by LSK
I agree with Finduilas with the KB prot. Most baddies you run into dose no more then 10 KB. Second off why do u have miracle +rec in hibernate? You do not get the benefit unless the power is active. It would be better in say for instance health. You also got to remember that is a very expensive build there where most can not afford it either.
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If you ever get to team with me, you will see that my technique is different, and my build works great. There are a lot of people that really read up on my build after seeing me run. But hey - to each his own.
Also, there are a lot of changes that can be made to make use of lower cost enhancements.
Quote:
Ice tanking is not about damage. It is damage mitigation. You get in the fight, you last and last and last until the damage you do finally takes them down. Granted, I had to rely on lots of pets when I soloed Imperious.
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Originally Posted by Madamme Mayhem
Thanks alot for the advice Finduilas, i really appreicate it. I have changed both Kinetic combat sets, one to smashing haymaker and the other to crushing impact. When i get EA going it will be more then enough def.
I am a bit concerned about the dmg out put though. I have never ran a tanker before but i have 2 brutes so i will be trying not to compare the dmg out put. I wish brutes got ice/ice lol. Do you think with all those cones i will be doing enough dmg? |
Quote:
I really don't get that. Acro does absolutely nothing on a Tanker with inherent KB protection, since they also get -1000% KB resistance, meaning that any KB that does come it gets dropped to zero before it even applies.|
Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
Because I had to take something. Acrobatics just means that I will never be knocked back... not that I was ever.
|
Taking Acrobatics, when it does nothing, over a power that might be situational, but actually useful, seems like a very odd choice.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
I respect your opinions on this. Sometimes, it is hard to play one way and even consider a different method. I'll tell you that I do not understand why people will spend power slots to get a power they do not need and do not use.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
I disagree with all of these suggestions, though the issue of Hasten is mostly a matter of personal preference. I like to have it to shorten the recharge of Hoarfrost as well as attacks.
And while I feel that Tough is useful in itself, the real benefit is that it opens up Weave, which has twice the defense of Maneuvers at a smaller endurance cost. Granted, it takes 3 power slots to get Weave, but IMO it's worth it unless you're critically short of power slots, and I find that's much less often the case now that Fitness is inherent. Also, it makes absolutely no difference where you put the Steadfast +Def, since it is a global and by definition 'always on'. Hoarfrost, Tough and PF work equally well for Ice. |
EDIT: BTW, It does matter where you put the Steadfast Psi Res/+Def. In order for it to be alsways on, you need it in a power that is always on. Hoarfrost is clicky, Tough is a toggle, but permafrost is Always on.
Quote:
And what am I missing in my build that I could substitute for Acrobatics?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I really don't get that. Acro does absolutely nothing on a Tanker with inherent KB protection, since they also get -1000% KB resistance, meaning that any KB that does come it gets dropped to zero before it even applies.
Taking Acrobatics, when it does nothing, over a power that might be situational, but actually useful, seems like a very odd choice. |
EDIT: See, I took acro because I needed to take something. It increases my KB protection from mag 14 to mag 23. It also increases my hold protection to 14.98 and my hold resistance to 106.5%... And that is without my Accolades and Incarnate powers added in.
Truth is, my build is overkill. But with good reason.
Quote:
One-slot wonders:|
Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
And what am I missing in my build that I could substitute for Acrobatics?
|
1) Recall Friend
2) Assault
3) Hasten
4) Grant Invisibility (heck, it would be better than acro)
Would require some slotting:
1) Ice Sword (which is better than GIS in almost every measurable way
2) Frost (seriously, it's a great attack, and pure cold damage, to boot!)
Basically, I can come up with a lot of ways to use that power pick. But to be honest, with 15 Ice Tankers, I'm kinda wondering why you do some of the things you're doing. As others have already said, you've taken Maneuvers, instead of getting boxing/tough/weave, which makes little sense. Boxing might not be used all that much, but Tough and Weave could be left on constantly, improving your survivability to a great degree, and freeing up slotting for more damage or recharge, instead of defense.
But just in general, some of your power picks confuse me. Why are you slotting Chillblain over Block of Ice? Lockdown of bosses is a great way to help survivability. Why no Frost? Why are you slotting Hoarfrost for the Resistance, and not the Heal? Why does Frozen Fists have no Acc slotting at all? With it delivering bruising, you want it to hit as often as possible. Why not try to max out the EndMod, Defense, and recharge of EA?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Going from 14 to 23 is useless when nothing is going to do over 0.1 mag KB to you. The hold resistance is nice, but not worth the end cost.|
Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
EDIT: See, I took acro because I needed to take something. It increases my KB protection from mag 14 to mag 23. It also increases my hold protection to 14.98 and my hold resistance to 106.5%... And that is without my Accolades and Incarnate powers added in. Truth is, my build is overkill. But with good reason. |
I'd say that your build is overkill in some areas, but not with good reason.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
With all due respect, you did not come up with a viable alternative. You just stated what I already had said in a previous post - I did state that I didn't really need it, I took it because there was not another power I cared to take.
|
Going from 14 to 23 is useless when nothing is going to do over 0.1 mag KB to you. The hold resistance is nice, but not worth the end cost. I'd say that your build is overkill in some areas, but not with good reason. |
Quote:
Have you open up mids with my build to check it out? That might answer a few questions right there.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
One-slot wonders:
1) Recall Friend 2) Assault 3) Hasten 4) Grant Invisibility (heck, it would be better than acro) Would require some slotting: 1) Ice Sword (which is better than GIS in almost every measurable way 2) Frost (seriously, it's a great attack, and pure cold damage, to boot!) Basically, I can come up with a lot of ways to use that power pick. But to be honest, with 15 Ice Tankers, I'm kinda wondering why you do some of the things you're doing. As others have already said, you've taken Maneuvers, instead of getting boxing/tough/weave, which makes little sense. Boxing might not be used all that much, but Tough and Weave could be left on constantly, improving your survivability to a great degree, and freeing up slotting for more damage or recharge, instead of defense. But just in general, some of your power picks confuse me. Why are you slotting Chillblain over Block of Ice? Lockdown of bosses is a great way to help survivability. Why no Frost? Why are you slotting Hoarfrost for the Resistance, and not the Heal? Why does Frozen Fists have no Acc slotting at all? With it delivering bruising, you want it to hit as often as possible. Why not try to max out the EndMod, Defense, and recharge of EA? |
As far as some of the questions you raise, I'll address them here:
1) Recall Friend - Assemble The Team replaces this need.
2) Assault - I do not have to take this power because I use Set Bonuses. Plus the END cost was higher than I wanted for a single slot.
3) Hasten - This power is a double edged sword because yes, it does allow your powers to come up quicker, but you also use the END much more quickly.
4) Grant Invisibility (heck, it would be better than acro) - With so many buffers out there, why would I want to grant Invis to the teammates when my efforts are better supported in controlling agro and taking on the mobs.
Quote:
| As others have already said, you've taken Maneuvers, instead of getting boxing/tough/weave, which makes little sense. Boxing might not be used all that much, but Tough and Weave could be left on constantly, improving your survivability to a great degree, and freeing up slotting for more damage or recharge, instead of defense. |
Quote:
| But just in general, some of your power picks confuse me. Why are you slotting Chillblain over Block of Ice? Lockdown of bosses is a great way to help survivability. Why no Frost? Why are you slotting Hoarfrost for the Resistance, and not the Heal? Why does Frozen Fists have no Acc slotting at all? With it delivering bruising, you want it to hit as often as possible. Why not try to max out the EndMod, Defense, and recharge of EA? |
Hoarfrost is slotted for Toxic Resistance because with my resistances and defenses, heal is not needed as much - plus I wanted the set bonuses.
I do not use Frozen Fists except on rare occasion. Even then, I don't miss them except in a very rare case, so an ACC IO (while not slotted) doesn't really give me more of a chance.
As far as EA, how much more Defense can you get than 11% additional to 6 different damage types? Plus, my set bonues make up for more than that. And since EA is set to autofire, It goes off religiously and my DEF is always maxed and EA is successful at draining most every baddie (with exception of AV and even then sometimes) of END and as long as the number of baddies I have around me, END usage is not a problem.
Quote:
I could drop Acrobatics, Super Jump and Taunt and pick up Boxing, Tough and Weave - but why? I don't see the need to add even more Defense (which is still way over the softcap and nearing the hardcap) and just adding Tough for the smashing/lethal resistance in a minimal form? At the same time, I lose my Taunt? Wha?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
One-slot wonders:
1) Recall Friend 2) Assault 3) Hasten 4) Grant Invisibility (heck, it would be better than acro) Would require some slotting: 1) Ice Sword (which is better than GIS in almost every measurable way 2) Frost (seriously, it's a great attack, and pure cold damage, to boot!) Basically, I can come up with a lot of ways to use that power pick. But to be honest, with 15 Ice Tankers, I'm kinda wondering why you do some of the things you're doing. As others have already said, you've taken Maneuvers, instead of getting boxing/tough/weave, which makes little sense. Boxing might not be used all that much, but Tough and Weave could be left on constantly, improving your survivability to a great degree, and freeing up slotting for more damage or recharge, instead of defense. But just in general, some of your power picks confuse me. Why are you slotting Chillblain over Block of Ice? Lockdown of bosses is a great way to help survivability. Why no Frost? Why are you slotting Hoarfrost for the Resistance, and not the Heal? Why does Frozen Fists have no Acc slotting at all? With it delivering bruising, you want it to hit as often as possible. Why not try to max out the EndMod, Defense, and recharge of EA? |
I wish you guys would admit that since IOs came into the game, and again after Fitness became inherent, that thers is more than one way to build an Ice Tank.
I greatly appreciate your service all these years to the Ice Tanks, Aett Thorn, you have done a lot to make us what we are today. I just thought you were more open minded about the possibilities of how to build an ice tank and variances in playstyle.
Quote:
I agree that there is more than one way to build anything in this game. However, your build seems highly sub-optimal, and giving suggestions to others based on it seems odd.|
Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
I could drop Acrobatics, Super Jump and Taunt and pick up Boxing, Tough and Weave - but why? I don't see the need to add even more Defense (which is still way over the softcap and nearing the hardcap) and just adding Tough for the smashing/lethal resistance in a minimal form? At the same time, I lose my Taunt? Wha?
I wish you guys would admit that since IOs came into the game, and again after Fitness became inherent, that thers is more than one way to build an Ice Tank. |
Acro is entirely unnecessary, and while you can give reasons out for not picking up the powers that I suggested, they'd still be of far more use than Acro.
Recall Friend? Assemble the Team is on a 30-minute recharge. You could "assemble the team" so many times over that with Recall Friend. Assault and Hasten using more endurance? Yet, later you say that End use isn't a concern. Frost? You say that you're built for AoE damage, but don't take a great AoE power? Bwah? Slotting Chillblain like you did, but not the hold, even though it can take the same slotting? Again, bwah???
And who said anything about dropping Taunt? The way I see it, you could drop Fly, Maneuvers, and Acro, and take Boxing, Tough, and Weave. You get more Defense base (meaning you can use more IO set bonuses for other things), and some decent S/L resistance for when things do get through. Heck, if you're going to have a power pick that does nothing, you might as well get other powers because of it.
Does your build work? Yes, it probably does. But it could be done a lot better, cheaper, and more effectively. Why wouldn't we point that out to somebody asking for help?
Edit-> Also, I would like to view your build in Mid's and see what the exact values are, but I keep getting an error when I try.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I agree that there is more than one way to build anything in this game. However, your build seems highly sub-optimal, and giving suggestions to others based on it seems odd.
Acro is entirely unnecessary, and while you can give reasons out for not picking up the powers that I suggested, they'd still be of far more use than Acro. Recall Friend? Assemble the Team is on a 30-minute recharge. You could "assemble the team" so many times over that with Recall Friend. Assault and Hasten using more endurance? Yet, later you say that End use isn't a concern. Frost? You say that you're built for AoE damage, but don't take a great AoE power? Bwah? Slotting Chillblain like you did, but not the hold, even though it can take the same slotting? Again, bwah??? And who said anything about dropping Taunt? The way I see it, you could drop Fly, Maneuvers, and Acro, and take Boxing, Tough, and Weave. You get more Defense base (meaning you can use more IO set bonuses for other things), and some decent S/L resistance for when things do get through. Heck, if you're going to have a power pick that does nothing, you might as well get other powers because of it. Does your build work? Yes, it probably does. But it could be done a lot better, cheaper, and more effectively. Why wouldn't we point that out to somebody asking for help? Edit-> Also, I would like to view your build in Mid's and see what the exact values are, but I keep getting an error when I try. |
Code:
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There are a lot of things that you guys cannot see with my build because you simply have to experience how well, it works.
Also, the OP was soliciting advice on Ice Tanks and more specifically, her build. I posted mine as an example of one way to build. This build has evolved since 2004 and so has my playstyle. I know what works for me and I have a build that works with it. Occasionally, I make a change if I am not happy with the way it works. One example is Ice Storm.. I hate that even fully slotted and with Call to Justice and Build Up, I can only get ticks of damage worth 2 points. Unslotted and without Call to Justice and Build Up I can get 1 point per tick.
After your last post, I do think I will look into shifting the IO Set from Chilblain to Block of Ice.
Quote:
Might want to check and see if it is a upgrade issue with Mids. I have the latest version and it does open for me.
|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Edit-> Also, I would like to view your build in Mid's and see what the exact values are, but I keep getting an error when I try.
|
Aett, when looking at that, keep in mind that I already have and am running that build so the numbers shown in mids are off, but on the lower side. Actual numbers are higher in-game.
Santa Laws you have spent alot of inf on that tanky, I'd love to see it in action. I ain't ever spent lots on Tanks because of well alts plus there is usually some alternative.
Powers such as Force Bolt do about 18 mag KB, if I pvped I'd prolly pick up acro. Forcefield could potentially put me out of the match anyway I'd imagine.
Fight pool not necessary, especially as HP cap is raised. Good on low investment builds. I have it.
Looking at builds, if it has taunt, simply I'd be able to play that one, if it hasn't I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Is the flexibility of taunt always needed? No but like spit anyway.
Assault is nice for the taunt and placate resistance, don't always have to have it on. Minimizes fight duration of the team although arguably noticeable I'd guess. Taunt resistance good in PvP, placate *looks at Mako* but I can with slots taunt duration beyond that or out of range of it as its 50ft.
Tactics a good alternative as it has confuse and fear resistance, again don't always have to have it on. Sometimes more tohit is a good thing. I'd rather not get confused or terrified, sure the taunt durations can out duration it only just at times but safer to have tacts.
Hasten, all powers bring flexibility, the more times their on offer the better and so it like ketchup to me. Perma hoarfrost is like perma +hp
Also alright on Ice although interruptable and cast time can be so long someone could die in the time you use it is aid self.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Yeah, I have. I spent 19.5 billion completing it. Plus I run one single build and I included a lot of PVP IOs in order to participate. I don't expect to win in PVP, but I expect to be a challenge to them.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Santa Laws you have spent alot of inf on that tanky, I'd love to see it in action. I ain't ever spent lots on Tanks because of well alts plus there is usually some alternative.
Powers such as Force Bolt do about 18 mag KB, if I pvped I'd prolly pick up acro. Forcefield could potentially put me out of the match anyway I'd imagine. Fight pool not necessary, especially as HP cap is raised. Good on low investment builds. I have it. Looking at builds, if it has taunt, simply I'd be able to play that one, if it hasn't I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Is the flexibility of taunt always needed? No but like spit anyway. Assault is nice for the taunt and placate resistance, don't always have to have it on. Minimizes fight duration of the team although arguably noticeable I'd guess. Taunt resistance good in PvP, placate *looks at Mako* but I can with slots taunt duration beyond that or out of range of it as its 50ft. Tactics a good alternative as it has confuse and fear resistance, again don't always have to have it on. Sometimes more tohit is a good thing. I'd rather not get confused or terrified, sure the taunt durations can out duration it only just at times but safer to have tacts. Hasten, all powers bring flexibility, the more times their on offer the better and so it like ketchup to me. Perma hoarfrost is like perma +hp Also alright on Ice although interruptable and cast time can be so long someone could die in the time you use it is aid self. |
Afte some of these suggestions, I am going to revisit some of my choices in my build.
First tanker, wish it was a brute! But its not so i have still tried to get in a decent amount of dmg. Alot of cone dmg but i think it will be damn fun!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Frozen Armor LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3)
Level 1: Frozen Fists KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Hoarfrost Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Ice Sword KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 6: Wet Ice EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Permafrost ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(11)
Level 10: Frost Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(13), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Posi-Dam%(15), ImpSwft-Dam%(29)
Level 12: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(17)
Level 14: Super Jump Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Icicles Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), EndRdx-I(21)
Level 18: Glacial Armor LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 20: Build Up RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 22: Ice Patch RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 24: Boxing Empty(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(33), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(37)
Level 28: Tough S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 30: Weave LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(36), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(36), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ImpSwft-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Frozen Aura Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Dmg(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: School of Sharks Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Arctic Breath Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 47: Bile Spray Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Hibernate Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift Empty(A)
Level 2: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(27), P'Shift-End%(27)
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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