If demand is that high, you must supply!
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-18 07:59 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
Are you aware that you could spend 5-10 minutes in an AE mission for a modest amount of Tickets and get just about ANY salvage you need (especially common or uncommon) just that easily?
|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
I almost made a new post saying almost the same thing, but found this one at the last moment.
I've been noticing the dwindling quantity of Common salvage. While the price certainly is eye-raising in many instances (I saw some Demonic Blood Samples selling for 5mil a pop), but just the availability of them. I've seen a few common pieces of salvage where there's barely 20 units for sale, yet there's hundreds of bids for it. While there's both good and bad points to the salvage shortage, I am of the opinion that it's an issue that needs to be looked at closer. So far the shortage hasn't hurt me, but it has been a bit annoying needing just a single piece of salvage to build X enhancement for one of my newer toons, but having to either pay through the nose or waiting until I get it as a drop before being able to make said enhancement. |
Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
Quote:
It's probably why there is little to none on the market.....
|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
Are you aware that you could spend 5-10 minutes in an AE mission for a modest amount of Tickets and get just about ANY salvage you need (especially common or uncommon) just that easily?
|
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
The problem with THAT method is that you have to roll for common salvage, and you will probably get several pieces you don't need before you get the one you need. Then you'll have to get rid of that unwanted salvage on the market, where it's often selling for 100-500k these days.|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
Are you aware that you could spend 5-10 minutes in an AE mission for a modest amount of Tickets and get just about ANY salvage you need (especially common or uncommon) just that easily?
|
THAT in turn means you'll get the salvage you wanted AND a lot of money.
But what if you don't WANT a lot of money? Did you think about that, Mr. Smarty-Pants? What if you JUST want some salvage, instead of salvage AND a lot of money??? Won't anybody think of the intentionally poor?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
If it were so easy to do just that, then there wouldn't be a shortage in the salvage supply.|
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
Are you aware that you could spend 5-10 minutes in an AE mission for a modest amount of Tickets and get just about ANY salvage you need (especially common or uncommon) just that easily?
|
But there is.
To clarify, I'm not commenting on my inability to acquire salvage (I've been able to get what I need with a little patience or Inf). I'm commenting on the general state of the game. When there's Common salvage that has a Bid:ForSale ratio of over 10:1, there's a problem. When Common salvage is harder to acquire and worth more than Rare salvage, there's a problem.
I dont want you (or anyone for that matter) to take what Im about to say in a negative light. I really try to understand the angle people are taking and see through their eyes the problem they are having...but you're comments are contradictory at best.
Quote:
You can make hundreds of influence. Lets assume you can make 5 million an hour on your tank. 1 million is the lowest that a FF defender (in SG mode no less) posted during that "One Hour Challenge" we had a year ago or so (anyone feel free to link it). Your circuit board at the top end costs you half a million...thats the buy it now price, then thats 6 min of game time...youre complaining about 6 mins of grinding to get the flat inf that you need to buy the item outright during the peak pricing time? |
Originally Posted by End Sinister
As far as my influence flow, I can make a few hundred million easily and I do know how to play the market. The issue is that I don't have a farmer in the traditional sense and I refuse to make one (such as a fire/kin controller). So I use whatever level 50 I have at hand, which right now just so happens to be my tank. With that being said, AE farming is a very long and arduous process, boring too. However, I do farm tickets every now and then to keep my WW slots full. |
What youre missing is that everyone makes 5 million or more an hour or more. Theres only so many of the mid market salvage available. Youre not competing with the seller to find the right price, you're competing with all the level 50s out there who make 5M an hour. Im suprised common salvage isnt higher because theres a certain subsect of players out there to whom half a million is meaningless.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
As far as not wanting to wait or paying exorbitant prices? I don't think anyone wants to be paying 10 to 20 (or more) times the normal cost of anything. I don't have time to play every day so I don't want to be waiting to buy something. Selling is obviously a different matter. Before the incarnate trials, if I wanted a circuit board immediately, it normally had cost around 500 if I wanted to wait or that much or slightly higher if I wanted it immediately. It did not cost 200 times the amount.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
It's all well and good that some of you in this forum have the time to be farming and logging in every single day, but for many of us out there we simply don't have the time to dedicate as we once had. The only positive this has brought is that sought after enhancements have come way down in price  |
You see other people as playing more than you and pushing prices. Ill bet you its not that at all...its the people that dont play that much driving prices, hence the spikes on the weekend and lulls on Tuesday.
In fact due to your lack of play time youre in an ideal spot to have patience and get everything much cheaper.
To sum it up...
Become a seller if you dont like the purchase price
Patience wins everytime (eventually)
Theres two sides to every transaction
--Frog
It's only "a problem" for those who are unwilling to pay in either money or time. If I want something nao, I either have to pay "nao" prices or go foraging for it myself.
-Gate
@Generator
Mostly Pinnacle, with scattered alts on Liberty, Freedom, and Justice.
I had a great time playing with you!
Quote:
So you really don't accept that it works like that? Huh, well, okay then...
|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
If it were so easy to do just that, then there wouldn't be a shortage in the salvage supply.
But there is. |
Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
Quote:
Yeah, I occasionally amuse myself reflecting on this. I know for a fact that I take more stuff out of the market than I put in and as such am contributing to any inflation on the market.
|
Originally Posted by Frogfather
Again see above. But now lets take it a step further. You are buying something you are not supplying, you are contributing to the rising cost of the item. You are the cause of your own crisis. Isnt that funny?
|
Quote:
because...?|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
If it were so easy to do just that, then there wouldn't be a shortage in the salvage supply.
|
AFAICT, it's is truly possible to trade AE tickets for salvage. Iirc, I have even done it before right after AE came out.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
When there's Common salvage that has a Bid:ForSale ratio of over 10:1, there's a problem.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
When Common salvage is harder to acquire and worth more than Rare salvage, there's a problem.
|
Well, I can save you all a lot of trouble. I am playing midrange toons right now. I just don't enjoy playing my 50's all that much. Yeah, they tough and all but It's more fun for me in 20-40.
Now that I know how much I can get for it, I'll be RICH, see RICH!!! I'll go from 18 billion to 20 on the backs of those who don't know how to get common salavage! Oh Happy DAY! Thank goodness for Incarnates!
Quote:
During that range I am simply slotting SOs, or keeping level 25 common IOs in there. It's at 32 where I start to switch over to common IOs. How do I cut cost on IOs during that range? AE tickets. It takes about 2K in tickets to do a build full of level 35 IOs. Add in unlocking the level 35-40 recipe badges and you cut out the need for getting the recipes and cutting down on crafting.
|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
This is not fun if you're in your 30's and looking to I.O. until you hit level 50. It cost me 25 million to I.O. out my level 28 defender the other night; it should not have taken that much to do so.
|
I tried to do my part last night. On my accidental farmer, I can generate about 1500 tickets every 6 minutes. So I roll a few recipes, then roll arcane commons to fill my salvage inventory (53ish slots) and dump them on the markets. It caused a small, but noticeable dip in price for that salvage, and but was only slightly profitable. I probably made about 1.1 M in inf for the salvage, or about a quarter of the inf that I generated getting the tickets in the first place.
Quote:
He's right on target here. Though I produced hundreds of midlevel salvage items last night, I probably wouldn't do it again. It just isn't worth the time.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
What you can't usually get is for someone to spend time on your behalf and lose money (or potential money) doing so.
|
If you really need some salvage, and moderately strong toon can get enough tickets to roll what you want in 15 - 20 minutes.
Quote:
Your doing it wrong. I can't speak for everyone, but when I farm, its because I want to. Not because I HAVE to. I play this game because I want to, not because I have to (though that might be debated :P). Farming, for me, should be easy, fun, fast and done while listening to heavy metal or watching a movie. Anything else is work, that I pay to get to do. |
Originally Posted by End Sinister
The issue is that I don't have a farmer in the traditional sense and I refuse to make one (such as a fire/kin controller). So I use whatever level 50 I have at hand, which right now just so happens to be my tank. With that being said, AE farming is a very long and arduous process, boring too. However, I do farm tickets every now and then to keep my WW slots full.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
As far as not wanting to wait or paying exorbitant prices? I don't think anyone wants to be paying 10 to 20 (or more) times the normal cost of anything.
|
Every person has a different 'cap' that they are willing to spend on things, real world and in CoH. If I got in my head that all purple recipes are only worth 500k, and all other prices are exorbitant, should I expect all others to kow-tow to my imagination and give me everything for 500k?
This thought and attitude reveals itself in the real world with gasoline prices. Everyone and their mother wants and needs it and expects some one else to get it for them. They complain when the prices climb, point at proof that the 'ebil oil companies' are controlling the prices when it falls. However, they are still willing to pay just about whatever the price is for it, because they 'need' it.
You could go drill for your own oil (farm) or find an alternate way of energy (use SOs, under bid, do lower level stuff), you can sit there and complain and keep buying what you want (keep doing level 50 stuff and buy at 'exorbitant prices'), or you can sit at home, never go out and moan about how expensive gas is (rage quite and then complain). Those are the options. Choose one, and enjoy the choice you chose
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
It's all well and good that some of you in this forum have the time to (snip snip... Drill for oil all the time ...), but for many of us out there we simply don't have the time to dedicate (drilling for oil that we once had). The only positive (is that _Insert_Personal_Hero_ is here to save us all)
|
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Pine, your analogy is pretty flawed.
If you commute to work, you MUST have gasoline. Unless your city offers a really good mass transit system that extends for miles for 25 to 50 miles beyond the city people have to drive to work. It is a necessity not a luxury which is why people pay what they have to get it.
It is unreasonable to expect a consumer to sink an oil well, build a cracking tower and refinery. I must assume that you mean this as a joke.
A better analogy would flowers. You need flowers to ocasionally smooth things over with your ladu. If you need them RITEnao, you go to the florist and pay a premium. If you can wait a little you can shop around and get a better deal. If you don't want to spend any money you can grow your own rose bushes. In the end, you have flowers just lots of ways to get there.
Quote:
Isn't that as much a result of the way the invention system is structured as anything else?|
Originally Posted by LordAethar
When Common salvage is harder to acquire and worth more than Rare salvage, there's a problem.
|
After all, a lot of low level rare salvage isn't used in that many recipes to start with, and a lot of people don't even start slotting IOs that early. Low level common salvage, on the other hand, is going to see some regular demand just from people going for memorization badges.
In a way, prices in general seem less strange than they used to. For a while it seemed like tech salvage of any rarity level was hardly worth anything, but now it seems like it's a lot more even.
-Morgan.
Quote:
I think the word you're looking for is 'entitlement'.
|
Originally Posted by _Pine_
This thought and attitude reveals itself in the real world with gasoline prices. Everyone and their mother wants and needs it and expects some one else to get it for them. They complain when the prices climb, point at proof that the 'ebil oil companies' are controlling the prices when it falls. However, they are still willing to pay just about whatever the price is for it, because they 'need' it.
|
Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
Quote:
Isn't this due to the Council and Devouring Earth dropping both Arcane and Tech and the introduction of Cimerora? Because I don't recall any new Recipes being introduced since I13.
|
Originally Posted by Morganite
In a way, prices in general seem less strange than they used to. For a while it seemed like tech salvage of any rarity level was hardly worth anything, but now it seems like it's a lot more even.
-Morgan. |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
Quote:
That is a large part of it (especially for level 50 salvage). Other aspects include the market merge (villains generate more low level arcane salvage than heroes) and the AE (which served to normalize to costs of rare salvage).
|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Isn't this due to the Council and Devouring Earth dropping both Arcane and Tech and the introduction of Cimerora? Because I don't recall any new Recipes being introduced since I13.
|
Quote:
Not true. There ARE other options. You don't HAVE to commute for 25 - 30 miles, you choose to. Move closer, get a closer job. You could get a bike, use could use a bus, car pool. Just because you are not willing to consider the other options doesn't mean they aren't there. |
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Pine, your analogy is pretty flawed.
If you commute to work, you MUST have gasoline. Unless your city offers a really good mass transit system that extends for miles for 25 to 50 miles beyond the city people have to drive to work. It is a necessity not a luxury which is why people pay what they have to get it. It is unreasonable to expect a consumer to sink an oil well, build a cracking tower and refinery. I must assume that you mean this as a joke. A better analogy would flowers. You need flowers to occasionally smooth things over with your lady. If you need them RITEnao, you go to the florist and pay a premium. If you can wait a little you can shop around and get a better deal. If you don't want to spend any money you can grow your own rose bushes. In the end, you have flowers just lots of ways to get there. |
Let's say I work at a Restaurant (I do in fact). If the place I am working at, which is only 6 miles away from my house, descides that a better market is 25 miles away from my house, and moves. Am I forced to stay at that job? I could, it might be easier to spend the extra money on gas, or... I, heaven forbid, I could take the choice of finding a different job. You Choose where you live, you choose where you work.
Drilling your own oil refineries is a pretty drastic step, true, but it is still a possibility. So is paying some one to farm for you (RMT).
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
Right, a tell a 40 something year old man with kids that he just needs to quit and screw his pension and his career. Or a single mom with a couple of kids not to worry about losing her insurance or pre-existing conditions. Just quit to save on gas money.
You have to balance potential loss due to expense versus potential rewards, some of which are intangible. Most people live from paycheck to paycheck.
Riding a bike to work is a great idea if you live in place where it is not 95 degrees and you won't have a heart attack.
You really have no concept of what is involved in actually making gasoline from crude oil. A multi-millionaire could afford your project no one else. I live in a refinery town and the effort is extreme. That doesn't even include that most people who own land don't have a handy pool of oil sitting under or the fact the mineral rights are generally sold seperately from the actual land.
I don't trust corporations as far as I can comfortably spit a live rat. You know why? They earned it with thier actions.
By the way, paying someone to farm for you using RMT is against the TOS and can get you permabanned so I wouldn't reccomend if you actually want to play this game.
I almost made a new post saying almost the same thing, but found this one at the last moment.
I've been noticing the dwindling quantity of Common salvage. While the price certainly is eye-raising in many instances (I saw some Demonic Blood Samples selling for 5mil a pop), but just the availability of them. I've seen a few common pieces of salvage where there's barely 20 units for sale, yet there's hundreds of bids for it.
While there's both good and bad points to the salvage shortage, I am of the opinion that it's an issue that needs to be looked at closer. So far the shortage hasn't hurt me, but it has been a bit annoying needing just a single piece of salvage to build X enhancement for one of my newer toons, but having to either pay through the nose or waiting until I get it as a drop before being able to make said enhancement.