Incarnate inflation! I am not happy!
By
Canine,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 15:29 in The Market and Inventions
Might I suggest we petition the devs for price caps? I'm sure this would solve the problem pointed out by the OP.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
I agree. Price caps for all.
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Originally Posted by RagManX
Might I suggest we petition the devs for price caps? I'm sure this would solve the problem pointed out by the OP.
RagManX |
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Originally Posted by Tubby
I agree. Price caps for all.
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Nuh-uh. You said "money grows on trees", not "some particular trees produce money if you water them just right". This has to work for *every IO on the market* or you're a liar.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
If you do it intelligently with IO's that move fast,
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Acorns grow on trees: discuss.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I planted some orange trees and didn't get any acorns. You're a liar.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Acorns grow on trees: discuss.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I planted an acorn and a squirrel dug it up and stole it. I'm fairly certain he was a RMT seller.
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Not every bill on the money tree is going to be a hundred. Some are though, as I showed you. Every IO out there *Can* be turned around for profit though.... hence the expression. I'm not sure where you came up with a 300% profit margin being required. What I think happened is you tried to set up some unrealistic goal to prove a point, only to find out it wasn't unrealistic at all. And rather than say "Hey, you were right. You were a jack@ss about it, but you were right." You've instead tried to grasp at straws, making broader, more unrealistic conditions for what I said to be true.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Nuh-uh. You said "money grows on trees", not "some particular trees produce money if you water them just right". This has to work for *every IO on the market* or you're a liar.
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Price caps for some, miniature American flags for others?
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Originally Posted by Tubby
Price caps for all.
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I find your lack of signature disturbing.
Now that is a nice reference. Love Kodos and Kang.
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Originally Posted by Tubby
I planted an acorn and a squirrel dug it up and stole it. I'm fairly certain he was a RMT seller.
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The current price of acorns is just nuts!
My Deviant Art page link-link
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I don't understand how somebody wouldn't have more than enough inf by the time you even need to start making IOs for yourself that they couldn't afford a handful of slightly overpriced mid-range common or uncommon salvage. Even if you aren't e-mailing yourself a small pile of inf to seed yourself to begin with and/or only playing and using the market casually.
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The point I am trying to make is that every time an experienced marketeer says they make tons of Inf with little effort, they are telling the truth - but only because they have already put in the effort of doing the necessary market research to find which IOs have the biggest gaps between crafted and uncafted, and the fastest turnarounds. This is not something that someone new to the market will instinctively know, or be able to find out easily. This is a skill that takes time to learn, and that some people don't feel like putting in the effort to do.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Not every bill on the money tree is going to be a hundred. Some are though, as I showed you. Every IO out there *Can* be turned around for profit though.... hence the expression. I'm not sure where you came up with a 300% profit margin being required. What I think happened is you tried to set up some unrealistic goal to prove a point, only to find out it wasn't unrealistic at all. And rather than say "Hey, you were right. You were a jack@ss about it, but you were right." You've instead tried to grasp at straws, making broader, more unrealistic conditions for what I said to be true.
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But okay, fine, let's have it your way.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
If you do it intelligently with IO's that move fast, you might just be surprised.
 Though I imagine it'll take more than 24 hours for some of the IO's to turn over, just because that is the way it is.Aegis Res 5 mil recpie + 2mil salvage 500k invention. Sale price 35 mil 300%+ Crushing Impact Acc/Dmg >200 K recipe Salvage 150K Invention 500k. Sells for 8 Million. 500%+ Decimation Dmg/End >500 K recipe, 2.1 Salvage 100k Invention Sells for 20mil. 425% + Reactive Armor End/Res/Rech 8 Mil Recipe, 750K Salvage(Because people are dumb) 100k Invention cost. Sells for 50 Mil. 360% + That should help start you off. *Edit* Didn't show the 10% you lose to market fee's in listing, but had already figured it in. |
So here we go!
Aegis Res 50 at 5 million, a stack. Hm, they didn't seem to fill instantly. Oh well, I'm sure I'll have them tomorrow.
Salvage is easy to get, since it's all high tier.
Let's see those Decimation Dam/End now. They only go to 40, so I'll get those. I'll go with 750k or so.
Hm. Not filling. Oh well, salvage tiem.
No reason to be stingy, let's go with 500k for the Uncommon, 75k for Commons, and 2 mil for the Rare.
Hm. Runes can't be gotten even at 75k, even though the last sold is 1k... We'll go with 50k and, as that one sig says, leave it for 24 hours.
Okay, last one is the Reactive Armor triple. Again, 40 is the max, that's what I'm buying.
I'll leave it up, it's cool.
750k per Uncommon, 50k per Common... The Runes may take a while, but that's okay. If I have the recipes and am still missing Runes, I'll buy a stack at 300k or something.
Okay, so far I've given away 50 million or so to the dirt farmers. But that's chump change. I'm sure I'll make back like, ten times that, once the bids on recipes come in.
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Yeah, and even hardcore marketeers (I think) generally compartmentalize their activities; a handful of alts might be dedicated to playing the market, while active combat/leveling characters probably just sell their own drops, only bothering to craft the most obviously profitable recipes. |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
The point I am trying to make is that every time an experienced marketeer says they make tons of Inf with little effort, they are telling the truth - but only because they have already put in the effort of doing the necessary market research to find which IOs have the biggest gaps between crafted and uncafted, and the fastest turnarounds. This is not something that someone new to the market will instinctively know, or be able to find out easily. This is a skill that takes time to learn, and that some people don't feel like putting in the effort to do.
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There is, in short, no firm basis to say that any market slot that's tied up with salvage listings would otherwise have a more profitable crafed IO in it. Crafting recipes indiscriminately can, in fact, lose you money, to say nothing of the added inconvenience.
As a means of playing the market, selling salvage is sub-optimal, but I think MrLiberty took his argument about three steps too far. It is not always silly to list salvage for more than 1 inf. An active toon selling her drops at the market only needs to take an extra couple of seconds to scan the last five, and if it shows a high going rate, type out a value arbitrarily higher than 1 inf to avoid being lowballed.
If the listing price is in the sweet spot, then that salvage generally won't tie up market slots for any gameplay-relevant length of time. There's a difference between farming for dirt, as Liberty puts it, and making quick, common-sense decisions that might nets you an extra few thousand influence here and there for items that you were going to sell anyway. FWIW, I personally tend to bid very high for salvage when I'm outfitting my characters because I can't be bothered to wait. I generally don't list non-rare salvage for more than 1 inf either, but if something's going for 500k, you betcha I'm gonna list for at least 25k.
If that 500k is a trival sum, which it is in the grand scheme, then losing the market fee on a 25k listing sure as hell doesn't matter.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Obitus is pretty much right. It doesn't *hurt* to list something higher if everyone is paying 500k for it if you are just casually tossing stuff up. It was an exaggerated argument, based on the idea that if you are looking to make money there are better ways to do it.
As for Silver Gale. I'm going to repeat a word I said you to you a few posts back. Intelligently. I-N-T-E-L-L-I-G-E-N-T-L-Y. Here I'll quote it for you :
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Buying up all the salvage when it would appear that the price of the IO's has gone up over the past few days is the opposite of that. |
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
If you do it intelligently
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You know as well as I do the Market Fluctuates. The IO's and salvage I took the time to look up and write down for you were at the high end of the last 5 sales at that time. Giving a quick look at Aegis and Reactive Armor it appears people have gotten wise and settled for a smaller profit margin (And listing the recipes higher, maybe figuring out how much they were worth). That didn't stop the potential from being there for high turn around. That doesn't change the fact that slot for slot on the market, you are better off not wasting it on Salvage if your goal is to make influence.
I'll say it again, if your goal is to make influence, its inefficient to waste market slots on buying/selling or just selling common and uncommon salvage. If I thought it'd have been worth the time, I'd have screen capped the last 5 sales when I posted them. Maybe next time.
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My goal is to craft dropped recipes that I have and sell them, and then sell any extra salvage I have that people want to spend inf on. I'm not flipping, I'm not looking for the biggest payouts, I don't buy recipes just to craft and resell.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Like it was mentioned in the post by tanstaafl, first there is nothing wrong with listing things that have current outstanding bids. If people can get some use out of it, I'll list it for them.
Then as for listing salvage for more than one influence, it suggests you are trying to "Make money" rather than just pass it along to someone who could use it at that moment. As others have mentioned its simply an inefficient way to go about doing it and your market slots would be better used for something with a much higher profit margin. What is worse is if you are just doing it as stuff drops, you aren't even filling 10 stacks meaning its *Much* worse for trying to make influence. The funny thing being... Its probably been over a year and a half since I was into the buying/relisting/selling phase. I don't do it anymore because I don't need to. So my only interaction with the market is selling whatever drops and buying something when I need it. The principle still stands though, if you are listing salvage for 100k it suggest you are trying to make money. Annnnnnd you are going about it in a very inefficient way. Like a dirt farmer in a world where money grows on trees. So play how you like. If you like farming dirt? More power to you. Its your 15 bucks a month. |
I've acquired almost 6 billion over all my characters (15 or so that I play or have played regularly) "farming dirt" as it were. It might not ring up the big, shiny numbers for me, but it works just fine, thanks. If the trickle is steady, and you're making more inf than you're putting into it, it adds up faster than you think.
There's more than one way to make inf in this game. Your way is only one of them. Don't pretend it's the best way, or the only way.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Quoted for emphasis.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
There's more than one way to make inf in this game. Your way is only one of them. Don't pretend it's the best way, or the only way.
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I buy common salvage (always at above vendor prices, I like to reward the people selling me the things I need.), and sell generic IO's.
I also sell stuff that drops for me, either crafted or not, depending on prices.
I've got all my 50's inf capped. All 19 of them, and about another 1.5-2 billion scattered around on my non-50's. This from three toons actively 'marketing' (by my definition) and the others selling stuff that drops for them while I play them.
It took me about a year to get my first two inf caps from selling generics. but it's not like I was in any major hurry.
Hence my major rule of the markets :
Patience Pays.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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As I said before, I haven't flipped things in nearly 2 years because the need for more influence hasn't been there. I sell or store what I generate by playing, that is it. You can make a pile of money off selling recipes that drop, you can make even more if you take the time to invent them (and usually have some patience). Like you said there is a lot of different ways to make influence. I never said the way I mentioned was even the best, just a much much much better way than wasting market slots on selling common salvage for 100k. Unless you missed the reference I'm pretty sure you didn't make 6 billion influence by *only* selling common and uncommon salvage. If you did? I'll definitely say I was wrong.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
My goal is to craft dropped recipes that I have and sell them, and then sell any extra salvage I have that people want to spend inf on. I'm not flipping, I'm not looking for the biggest payouts, I don't buy recipes just to craft and resell.
I've acquired almost 6 billion over all my characters (15 or so that I play or have played regularly) "farming dirt" as it were. It might not ring up the big, shiny numbers for me, but it works just fine, thanks. If the trickle is steady, and you're making more inf than you're putting into it, it adds up faster than you think. There's more than one way to make inf in this game. Your way is only one of them. Don't pretend it's the best way, or the only way. |
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I will assert that it is not so much a mater of the INT stat as putting points into the Knowledge (Market) skill.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Obitus is pretty much right. It doesn't *hurt* to list something higher if everyone is paying 500k for it if you are just casually tossing stuff up. It was an exaggerated argument, based on the idea that if you are looking to make money there are better ways to do it.
As for Silver Gale. I'm going to repeat a word I said you to you a few posts back. Intelligently. I-N-T-E-L-L-I-G-E-N-T-L-Y. Here I'll quote it for you : |
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Buying up all the salvage when it would appear that the price of the IO's has gone up over the past few days is the opposite of that. You know as well as I do the Market Fluctuates. The IO's and salvage I took the time to look up and write down for you were at the high end of the last 5 sales at that time. Giving a quick look at Aegis and Reactive Armor it appears people have gotten wise and settled for a smaller profit margin (And listing the recipes higher, maybe figuring out how much they were worth). That didn't stop the potential from being there for high turn around. That doesn't change the fact that slot for slot on the market, you are better off not wasting it on Salvage if your goal is to make influence. I'll say it again, if your goal is to make influence, its inefficient to waste market slots on buying/selling or just selling common and uncommon salvage. If I thought it'd have been worth the time, I'd have screen capped the last 5 sales when I posted them. Maybe next time. |
I think I have demonstrated my point here, which is that using the market without a clue, or even with half a clue, is not a surefire way of gaining Inf.
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Point acknowledged. People who do dumb things will struggle to make influence. |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
I think I have demonstrated my point here, which is that using the market without a clue, or even with half a clue, is not a surefire way of gaining Inf.
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I'd get into the circular logic of it being "dumb/inefficient to list common/uncommon salvage" but really I think this has gone on long enough.
I've pretty much always listed anything but rare salvage and above for 1 inf. These days, I'm mostly deleting anything below rares because I'm not going to take the time to check what has bidders and what doesn't. I also have no idea why I bother checking what rares are worth when I should be listing for 1 inf. It's probably time to change that bad habit. Rares at 1 inf from now on (except on characters that I haven't bankrolled).
I agree that marketeering is a skill, and that inf only grows on trees if you have that skill. It's not a DIFFICULT skill by any means. It's well within the grasp of almost anyone that wants to learn. But people may not want to take the time to develop that skill (it being a game, after all), and gambling all your inf on the market with no idea what you're doing is just as likely to lose you inf as gain you inf. I think where intelligence comes into play is to simply recognize that you need to develop the skill in the first place rather than blindly tossing inf at the market.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
(reads thread)
(starts bidding 8 inf for salvage)
Aegis Res 5 mil recpie + 2mil salvage 500k invention. Sale price 35 mil 300%+
Crushing Impact Acc/Dmg >200 K recipe Salvage 150K Invention 500k. Sells for 8 Million. 500%+
Decimation Dmg/End >500 K recipe, 2.1 Salvage 100k Invention Sells for 20mil. 425% +
Reactive Armor End/Res/Rech 8 Mil Recipe, 750K Salvage(Because people are dumb) 100k Invention cost. Sells for 50 Mil. 360% +
That should help start you off.
*Edit* Didn't show the 10% you lose to market fee's in listing, but had already figured it in.