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Very interesting episode. |
Originally Posted by Dark One
Neat episode and really good cliffhanger.
Thoughts... Astrid with straight hair is very attractive. John Noble is a damn good actor. Goes from playing an apparent stroke victim to an amoral sociopath. Piter de Vries as a nutball terrorist. Ella(?) caught me by surprise. Thought it was someone impersonating Olivia at first. Olivia as an out-and-out teke. At first, thought it was someone wearing some form of optical camoflauge. And finally, we get the classic paradox in sending something back in time. No one actually "made" it. It just always was. |
Impressively they could end the series there though I'm really happy to see that it has been renewed for a 4th season and will be back.
Now the question is how are to going to resolve that small minor cliff hanger at the end? After all it has always been.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
If Peter comes back because the Olliva's "remember him" I'm calling foul.
I see they sampled the 2nd Fantastic Four movie. But then again that movie was put out by Fox.
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I truely believe this is the most underappreciated show on television. It's one of the few network shows that has a story that moves forward and every season they almost completely re-invent the show and aren't afraid to take it in completely different directions. I'm very curious where they are taking us next.
2 Walters working together........oh my.
The WTF-ness of the headshot to Dunham.
The Ella touch was neat.
Creepy eyed Senator Broyles was creepy.
Actually I did not like Astrids straight hair...much cuter au natural.
Thought we were going to get Olivia v. Olivia for a minute.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Astrid with curly hair is very attractive.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Astrid with straight hair is very attractive.
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Great finale. Loved how they wrapped things up. The sheer contempt that the two Walters have for each other was just palpable. Amazing how John Noble pulled that off.
And I agree, Fringe is quite underappreciated. Its one of the few shows out there with some balls, that actually takes some risks, and is constantly monkeying with its status quo. I can't wait for next season.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
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Sorry, but hair that curly on an adult female is too, well...childish...looking to me. Astrid was always kinda just...there. Didn't really pay that much attention to her as she was pretty much just Walter's foil/patsy/gopher/etc. I just happen to prefer straighter hair or only slightly curled (never could stand perms either).
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Originally Posted by Ultraamann
Astrid with curly hair is very attractive.
Great finale. Loved how they wrapped things up. The sheer contempt that the two Walters have for each other was just palpable. Amazing how John Noble pulled that off. And I agree, Fringe is quite underappreciated. Its one of the few shows out there with some balls, that actually takes some risks, and is constantly monkeying with its status quo. I can't wait for next season. |
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He's working for Denethor, so's you should call him Wormtongue.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Piter de Vries as a nutball terrorist. |
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Nah, Dune was the first thing I saw him in, so Piter he is.
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Originally Posted by Terwilliger
He's working for Denethor, so's you should call him Wormtongue.
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I', generally a just sit back and enjoy it type and don't get too into nitpicking such things...|
Originally Posted by Dark One
And finally, we get the classic paradox in sending something back in time. No one actually "made" it. It just always was.
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But doesn't the fact that Peter never existed also mean the problem never would have started in the first place since the problem was caused by Walter bringing him over?
If I was going to guess how they'd bring Peter back it would be by this angle...
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The problem would have existed even without that trip. All the testing Walter and William did created the initial damage. The trip to try and deliver the cure to Peter and his subsequent taking merely accelerated the breakdown.|
Originally Posted by Caemgen
I', generally a just sit back and enjoy it type and don't get too into nitpicking such things...
But doesn't the fact that Peter never existed also mean the problem never would have started in the first place since the problem was caused by Walter bringing him over? If I was going to guess how they'd bring Peter back it would be by this angle... |
Walternate simply went on as he did before justifying his actions based on doing the best good without the added justification that he was punishing the universe that stole his son. We have seen that aspect in Walter it is something that he had the potential for and changed with the damage to his mind. The loop closes leaving the machine and the patch in place at the cost of Peter being trapped in the closed loop.
Hmm, does this mean it might be possible to pull him out of the closed loop?
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
I still am not processing Peter vaporizing in any fashion that makes sense. How did he "fulfill his purpose" and how did that make him vaporize?
I don't know if I buy the time stream healing itself by eliminating the irritant, so to speak.
At the very least I want an explanation and, while we're at it, it's about time the Observers were explained also.
While we're at it - how did Bell travel back and forth until he became charged to the point that he couldn't return? How much damage did he cause in the process? Walter takes a lot of heat for the initial incursion, but Bell must have his share as well.
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Fringe handles causality as there being many versions of all possible events. If you go back in time and change something, you spawn a new tree of events without erasing the first. The two universes handled in the show are just two of countless others. Peter is probably... somewhere, but these two versions of events are ones in which he is not present.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
I still am not processing Peter vaporizing in any fashion that makes sense. How did he "fulfill his purpose" and how did that make him vaporize?
I don't know if I buy the time stream healing itself by eliminating the irritant, so to speak. At the very least I want an explanation and, while we're at it, it's about time the Observers were explained also. While we're at it - how did Bell travel back and forth until he became charged to the point that he couldn't return? How much damage did he cause in the process? Walter takes a lot of heat for the initial incursion, but Bell must have his share as well. |
Walter ripped a hole in the membrane of the Universes and stepped through it. William strained himself through the membrane without altering it, like mechanically separated chicken smushed through a fine grate. They were different processes with different consequences: one damages the membrane while leaving the traveller intact; the other damages the traveller while leaving the membrane intact.
My theory on the Observers is that they are the descendents of modern day humans that go back in time with the machine. They will have plenty of time to evolve that strangeness.
So I wonder if FOlivias child vanished as well..
Or just changed fathers?
Can't have Peter's kid without Peter.. or can you? o.O
I don't think Peter vaporized. I think instead he is caught in a closed loop of time. See if he never was then the fix he just put in place wouldn't still be there nor would the machine. So what we have here is that the actor on events was removed from the time stream but not destroyed. He still exists and I'm guessing he can be pulled back out of the loop.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
I'm thinking Peter's still in the machine, trying to "correct" everything. My guess is that he has to finish and - for lack of a better term - "reboot" the system before he'll exist again.
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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Interesting thought. Perhaps he's more of an outsider now, like the Observers, maybe?
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
I don't think Peter vaporized. I think instead he is caught in a closed loop of time. See if he never was then the fix he just put in place wouldn't still be there nor would the machine. So what we have here is that the actor on events was removed from the time stream but not destroyed. He still exists and I'm guessing he can be pulled back out of the loop.
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It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
The problem with the many universes theory of time travel is that it means that there's nothing to "heal" and no paradox to resolve. There's no reason for Peter to be vaporized if his consciousness was pulled into an alternate Peter in the Universe Next Door. Likewise, the machine sent into the past would not be from Peter and Olivia's future, it would be from the alternate future sent into Earth Alpha's past (relative to our heroes).
The only way you get a paradox is if everything Peter does has a direct effect on Earth Alpha.
Now, there's something to recommend the multiple universes "time travel" model - the existence of the machine in both universes. Then again, the Observers, who seem to travel freely between the two universes, may be the people who originally planted both machines in their respective places. Like I said, if the Observers are not "the First People" then they need some explaining at this point. Especially since they seem to have been waiting for this event or events surrounding the activation of the machine.
In any case - None of it explains why Peter "fulfilled his purpose" and became unnecessary to the time stream. I may have to watch it again to see the exact words the Observers used in their conversation.
Does the machine even exist any more?
The situation was already odd. Consider - Both Peter and Olivia were ultimately required to successfully operate the machine. However, one universe had no Peter at all and the other had an Olivia without the special talents required to be "the crowbar". It took a union of the universes to effect what was, in the end, a sort of union of the universes.
No doubt there's some profound philosophical meaning behind that detail. Which would make it more profound if Peter hadn't vaporized.
Anyway - I'll be there in the Fall to see how this all gets sorted out.
Neat episode and really good cliffhanger.
Thoughts...
Astrid with straight hair is very attractive.
John Noble is a damn good actor. Goes from playing an apparent stroke victim to an amoral sociopath.
Piter de Vries as a nutball terrorist.
Ella(?) caught me by surprise. Thought it was someone impersonating Olivia at first.
Olivia as an out-and-out teke. At first, thought it was someone wearing some form of optical camoflauge.
And finally, we get the classic paradox in sending something back in time. No one actually "made" it. It just always was.