Who has issues with Incarnate graphics?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Tunnel Rat View Post
Hey folks,

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll take a look at Barrier and a couple of the other powers with multiple complaints. In the future, I’ll try to avoid powers with an intense pulse, and spread the word to the other FX artists. This is about the best I can do with the limited time and notice that I have. Unfortunately, it’s impossible for me to fix every effect that causes someone discomfort, but I hope to fix some of the outliers that have triggered the most complaints.

A few of you have proposed a system that allows players to suppress certain effects or turn off buffs placed on them by other players. This is a possible long-term solution, but one that requires a significant amount of coding time. Since our programmers are swamped right now, this system is likely a long way off, if it is greenlit at all.

Sound effects are not a part of the VFX field, so I encourage those who are physically bothered by them to forward a list to Zwillinger or Avatea. Also, kindly keep this thread clear of complaints about effects that you merely find annoying or ugly. You are free to critique any effect in the game in other threads, but let’s save this space for people who suffer migraines or seizures related to the VFX.
This may seem strange, but would adding an option to remove certain buffs from your character be a possible option?

In WoW you can right click (I think it's a right click) on a buff that's on your characters status window, and remove it. Something like that would be extremely useful for situations like this.


�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

 

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I know I said that since I did upgrades, plus running ultra mode, that powers don't affect me anymore but apparently Murphy's Law kicked in this weekend. Had a person on a Lady Grey I ran using barrier and whatever color they used caused discomfort. If they spammed it it would have caused a migrane.


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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
What I'm trying to get a feel for here is how widespread issues with the Incarnate buff graphics are, and how easily (or not) it is to mitigate or remove the effects.
I myself have not run into any issues, and did not with the old Sonic graphics either, but when I saw the Barrier effects during the Praetorean Invasion on Liberty I immediately thought of the old Sonic graphics and the issues that they caused. I was surprised to see something so similar.

I am grateful that I do not have any issues with the graphics because I do suffer from migraines (and tinnitus, great combo let me tell you). Nobody should have to go through a headache, or worse, a migraine, just because of a graphical effect.

I trust Paragon to get this fixed up quickly.


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Originally Posted by HexGirl View Post
In WoW you can right click (I think it's a right click) on a buff that's on your characters status window, and remove it. Something like that would be extremely useful for situations like this.
I seem to recall one of the devs commenting once before that the problem with this is that the game doesn't really differentiate between Buffs and Debuffs. Making an option to remove buffs without allowing people to remove debuffs would be a problem.


 

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I was sent here about the Sonic Resonance changes that fell through.

Any update on when they will be fixed again for the people that now have nausea/migraines from the new graphics?


 

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Originally Posted by doyler_ View Post
I was sent here about the Sonic Resonance changes that fell through.

Any update on when they will be fixed again for the people that now have nausea/migraines from the new graphics?
Details, please - they can't help without it.
Which graphics, what situation, what happens, etc. As best you can. Thanks.


 

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Sure no problem, thanks again.

It is the same (at least as far as I can tell) problem that others had with the previous set. It is the PBAoE bubble (Dispersion), color is irrelevant, and I think it is when it begins that pulse from top to bottom, though it may be always, I tend to avoid them like the plague.

It begins as a watering and a pain in my eyes, then it moves to a headache, and if for some reason I stick around it turns to nausea.


 

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Originally Posted by AquaJAWS View Post
Not sure how good of an answer this is, but I've noticed when you turn down your graphics settings, the barrier graphics go from the static-flashy-flickery bubble to a much more steady almost striped bubble. That may help some people with issues with the graphics.
On my Mac, thanks to the horrid bugginess of the client, I have to play at minimum graphics settings. Barrier is barely noticeable under such conditions so my answer to the OP would be no issues.

On my Windows gaming rig, with high res settings for everything, Barrier gives me a headache running trials. I really hadn't noticed that until now because I already have a lot of lag issues on big trials and thought the jittery lag was causing my headaches. But since reading this, I am now going to start spamming my Barrier power in non trials on both machines and see if it's the culprit.

As for not playing videogames if something bothers you, I'd leave the game over this easily. Not worth the other pain of trying to get it fixed if it is deemed to need fixing. YMMV.


 

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So why don't you just not use the powers if it gives you headaches?


 

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
So why don't you just not use the powers if it gives you headaches?
Maybe because of the thousands of other potential teammates to choose from also having access to said powers? Being an MMO and all... Just sayin'.

It's obvious you've never suffered from a full-on migraine, the kind where you bang your head against the counter/door frame in hopes of knocking yourself out, where you contemplate riding it out or just simply ending it all. I've had a hole carved into my foot the size of a quarter down to the tendon, torn off two toes in a bicycle accident, hit by a 45mph moving car and had a 1/2" nail through my foot (yeah, bad luck on the foot, all the same foot too! lol). The migraine tops them all.

I get a migraine at least 3 times a year, with the maximum being 12 in one year. I now have tinnitus, meaning my migraine feeds off of the ringing making it worse and lasting much, much longer.

I would gladly step on a dull nail and have it pierce completely through my foot, every single day of the rest of my life, if it guaranteed I'd never have another migraine.

So, please, think before you spout of something half thought out. And then pray you never have to suffer a migraine.


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Originally Posted by Cyclone_Jack View Post
Maybe because of the thousands of other potential teammates to choose from also having access to said powers? Being an MMO and all... Just sayin'.

It's obvious you've never suffered from a full-on migraine, the kind where you bang your head against the counter/door frame in hopes of knocking yourself out, where you contemplate riding it out or just simply ending it all. I've had a hole carved into my foot the size of a quarter down to the tendon, torn off two toes in a bicycle accident, hit by a 45mph moving car and had a 1/2" nail through my foot (yeah, bad luck on the foot, all the same foot too! lol). The migraine tops them all.

I get a migraine at least 3 times a year, with the maximum being 12 in one year. I now have tinnitus, meaning my migraine feeds off of the ringing making it worse and lasting much, much longer.

I would gladly step on a dull nail and have it pierce completely through my foot, every single day of the rest of my life, if it guaranteed I'd never have another migraine.

So, please, think before you spout of something half thought out. And then pray you never have to suffer a migraine.
"Nailed it" (no pun intended) I've seriously uttered the words, "Just shoot me now, please, put me out of my misery? I cannot cope with this anymore" during a migraine and meant every word. I'm not suicidal (not saying I haven't EVER had moments where sure it seemed like a good idea, but I am saying it has never been more serious of a contemplation than when coping with a migraine). To those who have never felt the pain of a migraine or worse than a "ordinary headache" - I envy you.

See, I'm not just an occasional sufferer (as the poster above with only 3-12 migraines yearly) - I've had months where I could count the number of migraine free days on one hand with fingers left over. They were a few years ago and it isn't as bad these days, but believe me when I say - I KNOW migraines. Those months - I didn't play CoH, not because CoH was the cause but because opening my eyes to any amount of light was excruciating. That didn't mean life didn't go on - I still had to go to work and do my job or I'd have been living on the streets. But it did mean I took the advice of all those who say "don't take your health in your hands and play anyway", I took the advice of "if it causes a headache or worsens it, don't play".

But if I "didn't do" everything that MIGHT cause me a migraine I would have no choice but to lie in bed for the rest of my life with someone bringing me food and drink that was carefully vetted for possible triggery substances. I know what part of my triggers are these days - and most often, flashy lights and such aren't the issue but at certain frequencies, yeah, it can be a problem. I've played CoH for six and a half years and besides times when I didn't play due to my own reasons (like migraines caused by another source) - I haven't had so many issues with graphics, and now suddenly a number of the new graphics are problematic. I can avoid the little triggers that only trigger minor issues - sonic grenades for example - those I can try to keep my camera averted from them. Barrier though? I can't avoid it because there isn't always a warning someone else is going to hit it - it bothers me whether it is on me or on a teammate or a random player who wanders up to the market. Any level 50 can get barrier with some effort - it isn't merely one powerset on a couple of ATs that I would have to avoid, it is every potential teammate (because I play almost exclusively on my level 50s and have for quite a while now, this isn't a trial fad for me, if it isn't the trials I'll be doing level 50 TFs back to back).


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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
So why don't you just not use the powers if it gives you headaches?
I never took the power (Barrier) in the first place. The problem is having other people use it and getting caught in the large buff area. You can't choose not to have the buff on you if someone near you casts it.


�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

 

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Originally Posted by Nomme View Post
"Nailed it" (no pun intended) I've seriously uttered the words, "Just shoot me now, please, put me out of my misery? I cannot cope with this anymore" during a migraine and meant every word. I'm not suicidal (not saying I haven't EVER had moments where sure it seemed like a good idea, but I am saying it has never been more serious of a contemplation than when coping with a migraine). To those who have never felt the pain of a migraine or worse than a "ordinary headache" - I envy you.

See, I'm not just an occasional sufferer (as the poster above with only 3-12 migraines yearly) - I've had months where I could count the number of migraine free days on one hand with fingers left over. They were a few years ago and it isn't as bad these days, but believe me when I say - I KNOW migraines. Those months - I didn't play CoH, not because CoH was the cause but because opening my eyes to any amount of light was excruciating. That didn't mean life didn't go on - I still had to go to work and do my job or I'd have been living on the streets. But it did mean I took the advice of all those who say "don't take your health in your hands and play anyway", I took the advice of "if it causes a headache or worsens it, don't play".

But if I "didn't do" everything that MIGHT cause me a migraine I would have no choice but to lie in bed for the rest of my life with someone bringing me food and drink that was carefully vetted for possible triggery substances. I know what part of my triggers are these days - and most often, flashy lights and such aren't the issue but at certain frequencies, yeah, it can be a problem. I've played CoH for six and a half years and besides times when I didn't play due to my own reasons (like migraines caused by another source) - I haven't had so many issues with graphics, and now suddenly a number of the new graphics are problematic. I can avoid the little triggers that only trigger minor issues - sonic grenades for example - those I can try to keep my camera averted from them. Barrier though? I can't avoid it because there isn't always a warning someone else is going to hit it - it bothers me whether it is on me or on a teammate or a random player who wanders up to the market. Any level 50 can get barrier with some effort - it isn't merely one powerset on a couple of ATs that I would have to avoid, it is every potential teammate (because I play almost exclusively on my level 50s and have for quite a while now, this isn't a trial fad for me, if it isn't the trials I'll be doing level 50 TFs back to back).
Sounds like you suffer from prolonged migraines like I do. I was actually taken out of school in grade 12 because of how severe my migraines had become. I must have went through 40 different prescriptions that year trying to find something that would actually break the cycle, or dull the pain, and I cannot tell you how many times I had to go to ER to get a shot and rehydrated because the migraine was so intense that I couldn't eat or drink.

I don't have them like I did, but I still get them on a regular basis, thankfully I can work through them most of the time now.


�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

 

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Originally Posted by HexGirl View Post
Sounds like you suffer from prolonged migraines like I do. I was actually taken out of school in grade 12 because of how severe my migraines had become. I must have went through 40 different prescriptions that year trying to find something that would actually break the cycle, or dull the pain, and I cannot tell you how many times I had to go to ER to get a shot and rehydrated because the migraine was so intense that I couldn't eat or drink.

I don't have them like I did, but I still get them on a regular basis, thankfully I can work through them most of the time now.
It hasn't been diagnosed beyond "chronic migraine" but it wouldn't surprise me for hear them termed as prolonged migraines. The worst times have been along the lines of 10 days with the same migraine > ER visit to kick the cycle via heavy pain meds or something stronger than every "triptan" in the cabinet and hydrate like you mentioned > rebound headache the next day which isn't as bad > back to migraines the next day. My "lesser" migraines are anyplace from a few hours to a full 24 hour span but are usually more intense pain and nausea wise. And my "bigger" migraines range from 2-10 days but aren't usually quite as debilitating. On occasion they decide to play around and I'll get one of the longer lasting ones that are worse pain than the usual short but intense ones.

I also have what I didn't realize (before talking to a neurologist) were "migraines" - for those not aware, you can get a migraine without the headache. I would get them with aural and visual symptoms (auras and/or extreme to mild sensitivity), usually with nausea and sometimes dizziness. I just wrote those off as "almost a migraine, must have dodged it" until I knew that those episodes are also still migraines, just without the agony of the headache that is generally called the migraine. For me quite frequently the nausea is every bit as bad as the headache portion - so I really get the "can't eat or drink" thing.

I wish more bosses/companies/state disability/doctors/insurance companies realized just how bad migraines can be - I very seriously should have been able to collect disability the year they were so bad that I averaged 20-25 days a month of migraines. My neurologist told me that for my migraines to be classed as chronic migraine I "only" needed to suffer from them an average of about 5-10 days a month I think. That timeframe I finally figured out what my triggers were and have since tried to avoid them, but it's really hard to avoid my triggers when they are mostly sensitivity to flourescent lighting tubes (compact "bulb" flourescents aren't bad until they age a bit and start getting jittery) and high stress levels. Leaving that job "cured" my migraine frequency back to reasonable levels of about 2 days a week of migraine. The boss there claimed to have never suffered so much as a NORMAL headache in his life, let along migraines - he had no point of reference for the level of pain, it made for a very stressful environment as he always thought I was "faking" to get out of work on the days that getting out of bed the nausea was so bad that nothing but being utterly immobile would help. Nevermind that I worked through every single migraine I could.

Migraines suck. And I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy, let alone the people I like that play this game and can't when graphic issues like this cause them to suddenly get migraines more often or for the first time ever.


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Originally Posted by HexGirl View Post
Sounds like you suffer from prolonged migraines like I do. I was actually taken out of school in grade 12 because of how severe my migraines had become. I must have went through 40 different prescriptions that year trying to find something that would actually break the cycle, or dull the pain, and I cannot tell you how many times I had to go to ER to get a shot and rehydrated because the migraine was so intense that I couldn't eat or drink.

I don't have them like I did, but I still get them on a regular basis, thankfully I can work through them most of the time now.
I know the feeling. Mine started to get bad during 8th grade and it took 10 years of switching meds regularly and seeing different doctors to get it regulated. I still have bills from that period of lab work/ER visits I'm working on paying off. Thankfully now I only get a couple a year now and old triggers don't affect me like they used to. These past 3 years have been a whole lot better than any of the previous.

Also Nomme speaks truth.


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I don't know whether anyone is still tracking this issue, but I definitely have a problem with one of the changes made a few months ago (I guess it was Issue 20). When I see the new warehouse area (the one with the two elevated areas reached by ramps, I instantly get nauseous. One mission that involves clearing that room, and I'm literally ill and have to log off. (I just did that, in fact.) Another player told me that it has to do with light sensitivity, which I have in spades. I have infrequent (because I've arranged every aspect of my life, from sleep to food, to avoid them) migraines.

I stare at monitors all day, by the way. I'm a software developer and writer (in particular, I write API code and documents for other developers). So it's not just staring at a monitor that triggers the issue. It's something in that particular room - some combination of textures or other visual items. (I'm a back-end, system-connectivity variety of developer, so I don't know the details of graphics programming.)

To the extent that you can do something about it, either now or later, thanks.


 

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Since not everyone reads the beta boards (open though they are,) Tunnel Rat recently posted this:

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Just dropping in to let you know that changes to the Barrier FX, specifically in response to complaints of migraines, will be coming shortly after the Keyes Island launch on the live servers. The “jitteriness” of the continuing effect has been reduced, as well as the initial flash of the original activation effect. Any quick, strong pulse in the effect has also been reduced. Much thanks to the players who described the problematic visual triggers in another thread several weeks ago. I hope the changes allow you to play our game more comfortably.

Here at the studio, we have been discussing a more long-term solution that would let players swap out effects that they find uncomfortable (similar to what some players currently do with sounds). Again, if approved, this will be a long way off, as it would require code time (and I apologize for sounding like a broken record here). In the meantime, we will continue to keep an eye out for outlying effects, like Barrier, that trigger a lot of medical-related complaints.
Great short and long term news!


 

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Yes. This is freaking awesome.


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Here's hoping for a change to the LGTF Hami-power eventually. I normally have no problem whatsoever playing this game, but that power makes me feel like my eyes are bleeding.

I have a brother so prone to epileptic fits that he can't even be in the same room as a person playing anything other than a handheld game, so I have more than a little concern for the people that are having issues with certain powers.

And anyone actively arguing against changes that benefit others without actually sacrificing anything can try skydiving without a parachute. I hear it's the ultimate high.