Question for the Heavy Art Collectors


Attache

 

Posted

One of the commissions I've really wanted to have done in my heart of hearts is to get one of my female OCs done up as a cosplay commission. Basically, have a female cosplayer make a costume and model the costume for a few shots. They keep their work when they are done and I get a few pics of an OC. I'm poorer, they're richer. We're all happy.

Does anyone else want or think about doing this? I've encountered a cosplayer who was looking to sell posters and prints but was concerned about using trademarked characters and thought that if there was a market for this, it might be a work around for her. I can't speak for anyone else but I don't really have any commercial aspirations for any character I've come up with and if some girl could make a buck selling pictures of herself as one of mine (without me somehow losing all rights), I can't see much caring about that. I've already encountered some commissions being offered as prints - I'm not sure this is that different.

Anyway, has anyone else considered a cosplayer commission? I'm about to broach the subject with the cosplayer in question and wondered if there is a market or if I'm the only one.


Attache @ deviantART

Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection

 

Posted

Never really thought of that myself, but likely because I consider my characters to all have a little part of me in them. I would be overly critical of someone essentially costuming to be 'me' even if they asked and would likely just end up making them pissed off at me. That said I believe the actual cosplay wouldn't run afoul of anything with some photos, but actual studio-like photo shoots/prints might.


 

Posted

It would matter if the cosplayer actually looked something like my hero. Other than that I thick it would just boil down to a matter of cost.


Centinull

 

Posted

Only thing I'd worry about is if at some point in time the girl actually copyrighting the costume and/or character herself. Then claiming you stole it. It's probably a non-issue but that's about the only one I see as being a problem. Of course that's easily overcome with documentation of your character prior to her use BUT if you're like me, you don't think of that stuff...


 

Posted

So long as you don't use the City of Heroes/ Villains trademark in any way, you should be fine, same with the lady selling the pictures of herself as your toon.

She may also want to avoid using the exact name of your character on her pictures and, if she does title them, go with something generic. I recommend this as I know costume and prop makers who can get away with offering a Captain America costume for sale by offering it as "Patriotic Hero".

Costume makers who don't generic the names of their products risk being hit with Cease and Desists by Marvel or DC. I've been a cosplayer for many years and I've seen a lot, including people getting shut down by Marvel.

Personally though, I'd love to see the finished product that you and your cosplayer create. I've been slowly working on a costume for myself of my own character for use at SDCC but it keeps getting put on the back burner hehehe.

Some of my work for the curious and bored:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...arletWitch.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...SuperWoman.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...aronCarter.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...arSapphire.jpg


 

Posted

Attache, you may want to ask a Red Name first. That way you won't get perma-banned by violating the EULAs.


~*~VexXxa~*~
The City Scoop Art Correspondent/Writer "ART IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER"//"Don't hate because VexXxa is HOT and you're NOT." - JOHNNYKAT


 

Posted

1) I'm not a lawyer so everything below this is just me talking out of my butt / giving my rather uninformed opinion.

2) I think a whole heck of a lot would depend on if this was a money making venture or not. If nobody is trying to turn a profit then probably no harm no foul.

3) a lot would also likely depend on just how closely the cosplay outfit resembles specific and unique costume pieces. If it's all just inspired by but not really much resembling unique costume pieces then I think you'd be safe. However if you were trying to exactly mimic the Arachnos Soldier outfit then I'd see a lot more possibility if CoH and associates caring...


As for whether I'd considered this or not, no I did not. Thought never occured to me. I think the stars would have to align just right for me to do so - the perfect looking cosplayer (in regards to how I envision my character) and the right cost, etc etc...

It's definitely an interesting idea though and I would be very curious in the results. Both how the pictures turned out and if you liked the results as much as you thought you would...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherRobin View Post
So if Zeniby were willing to dress as Fenian you would say no?
I wouldn't say no if you were willing to do it Well, ok, I would... But the point is that it's not so much permission and paying that is being questioned, no? And I don't really know if I would pay just to see that... or what my tipping point would be.

I tend to think I can get closer to the perfect shot via art than model. I think I'd be more willing to look past imperfections in art and let my imagination go whereas in a photo I think my mind would be more stuck on the reality, imperfections and all... if that makes any sense.



Now if the hottie looking to don the costume was a prostitute instead of a cosplayer... Well, let's not go there!


 

Posted

Wasn't there in recent years a cosplay coh contest, with prizes? That doesn't sound like a company to me that cares about you dressing up like your character. As far as making money on such a thing, it's a one time exchange, not a mass produced army of your toons claiming originality.

I say, date the nearest cosplayer near you, make her/him/them dress up as YOUR ideas, and snap a lot of pictures.

I will take a few 8 x 10s...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post
Never really thought of that myself, but likely because I consider my characters to all have a little part of me in them. I would be overly critical of someone essentially costuming to be 'me' even if they asked and would likely just end up making them pissed off at me. That said I believe the actual cosplay wouldn't run afoul of anything with some photos, but actual studio-like photo shoots/prints might.
Yeah, my characters don't have any of me in them and I really have like zero interest in dressing up in a costume myself. As most of my more art-worthy characters are female, nobody on this good green Earth wants to see me trying to work that out in drag. Trust me on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centinull View Post
It would matter if the cosplayer actually looked something like my hero. Other than that I thick it would just boil down to a matter of cost.
One of the things I particularly like about some of the top notch cosplayers is how they put their own spin on established characters and manage to do both the character and themselves justice. Cost is definitely an issue which is why I've not done it some time ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerStream View Post
Only thing I'd worry about is if at some point in time the girl actually copyrighting the costume and/or character herself. Then claiming you stole it. It's probably a non-issue but that's about the only one I see as being a problem. Of course that's easily overcome with documentation of your character prior to her use BUT if you're like me, you don't think of that stuff...
A lot of my characters in CoH pre-date the game and I probably have enough scraps to prove it. I can see how your concern could happen but really would only matter if you planned to do something commercial with your character. Just because someone manages to make a mint with an idea I may have had doesn't necessarily mean that I would've made that mint as well. I realize that mentality changes when you're talking about $10,000,000 as opposed to $200 but I honestly don't think something like that would happen. There is so much media competition these days, I'm not even certain that the characters introduced in the Internet age will show the staying power of a Batman or Superman. Some may but most will fade into mediocrity - and as well they should.


Attache @ deviantART

Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady LoveDie View Post
So long as you don't use the City of Heroes/ Villains trademark in any way, you should be fine, same with the lady selling the pictures of herself as your toon.

She may also want to avoid using the exact name of your character on her pictures and, if she does title them, go with something generic. I recommend this as I know costume and prop makers who can get away with offering a Captain America costume for sale by offering it as "Patriotic Hero".

Costume makers who don't generic the names of their products risk being hit with Cease and Desists by Marvel or DC. I've been a cosplayer for many years and I've seen a lot, including people getting shut down by Marvel.

Personally though, I'd love to see the finished product that you and your cosplayer create. I've been slowly working on a costume for myself of my own character for use at SDCC but it keeps getting put on the back burner hehehe.
By the time I get around to commissioning characters as art, they've generally already moved away from their game origins to a degree. I nearly always add details that can't be found in game and with my interest in MMOs somewhat waning at this point in my life, I imagine some characters I get commissioned going forward (because I do still enjoy that) won't be from a game at all. This is all a long way of saying that I don't think the costumes or the names would be an issue so far as violating NC Soft's purported ownership of all characters in the game.

By the way, great costumes! I've seen some of them before but I'm not sure where. dA account, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexXxa View Post
Attache, you may want to ask a Red Name first. That way you won't get perma-banned by violating the EULAs.
That may be an idea... But it seems that there are a few folks in the art buying game that harbor commercial plans for their characters. I'd always heard this was prohibited (unless the character can be proven to pre-date the CoH version) but I kind of have to think it would only become an issue if a character just exploded in global popularity. At best, this would be a cosplayer making a few bucks off prints of her as one of my characters that kinda sorta looks like you could make the costume in CoH. Seems like pretty small potatoes and it's hard to imagine NC Soft going ape over a few rupies being made from one of the millions of player characters. A signature character... that I could understand.


Attache @ deviantART

Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection

 

Posted

NCSoft owns the rights to your character as they appear in game. NCSoft does not own the rights to your original character, as they appear outside of game.

This means that they own Massacre Melanie, the Fire Blast/Dark Miasma corruptor that resides in the Rogue Isles and has adventures burning Paragon to the ground. They do not own Massacre Melanie the corrupt magical faerie who that seethes with arson fill hatred and happens to wear a red leather jacket with combat boots.

Certain costume sets are designed around NPCs or enemy groups they use, such as Kheldians and VEATs, Vanguard, etc. But they don't own the rights to your overall design. If you make use of the very specific NPC parts, then you can get around copyright by simply changing the piece to something more generic.

So don't be afraid that NCSoft owns your soul. They don't. You still own your characters, just not their ties to the game.


http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyJudgement View Post
Wasn't there in recent years a cosplay coh contest, with prizes? That doesn't sound like a company to me that cares about you dressing up like your character. As far as making money on such a thing, it's a one time exchange, not a mass produced army of your toons claiming originality.

I say, date the nearest cosplayer near you, make her/him/them dress up as YOUR ideas, and snap a lot of pictures.

I will take a few 8 x 10s...
Not a cosplay contest as such. It was a Halloween contest with the rules being you submitted an ingame screenie of your toon and then your costume that matched. Had some really cool looking winners.


Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suichiro View Post
This means that they own Massacre Melanie, the Fire Blast/Dark Miasma Corruptor that resides in the Rogue Isles™ and has adventures burning Paragon City™ to the ground. They do not own Massacre Melanie the corrupt magical faerie who seethes with arson fill hatred and happens to wear a red leather jacket with combat boots.
This, pretty much.




Character index

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attache View Post

By the way, great costumes! I've seen some of them before but I'm not sure where. dA account, maybe?
Likely, I have all my costumes up there.

http://tempestmoon.deviantart.com/gallery/


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caemgen View Post
1) I'm not a lawyer so everything below this is just me talking out of my butt / giving my rather uninformed opinion.

2) I think a whole heck of a lot would depend on if this was a money making venture or not. If nobody is trying to turn a profit then probably no harm no foul.

3) a lot would also likely depend on just how closely the cosplay outfit resembles specific and unique costume pieces. If it's all just inspired by but not really much resembling unique costume pieces then I think you'd be safe. However if you were trying to exactly mimic the Arachnos Soldier outfit then I'd see a lot more possibility if CoH and associates caring...


As for whether I'd considered this or not, no I did not. Thought never occured to me. I think the stars would have to align just right for me to do so - the perfect looking cosplayer (in regards to how I envision my character) and the right cost, etc etc...

It's definitely an interesting idea though and I would be very curious in the results. Both how the pictures turned out and if you liked the results as much as you thought you would...
It would be a money making venture for the cosplayer but I think most of my character costumes are broad enough with regard to patterns and emblems and pieces to avoid being classified strictly as a CoH character. The costume creator is just a handy tool for making the costumes since I can’t draw a lick.

I broached the subject with the cosplayer in question but I don’t even know if she’s interested yet as she hasn’t responded. I know that I could get someone to do it but it probably would be one of my more expensive commissions ever. Still, I love the idea of seeing one of the characters come to life and I definitely want to make it happen.

Incidentally, I already am kind of doing a cosplayer commission already – a female friend of mine wants to get a costume for Rogue together for the SDCC and I agreed to help defray some of the cost just in the interest of ensuring that she gets some good work done. I’m looking forward to seeing how that one turns out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caemgen View Post
I tend to think I can get closer to the perfect shot via art than model. I think I'd be more willing to look past imperfections in art and let my imagination go whereas in a photo I think my mind would be more stuck on the reality, imperfections and all... if that makes any sense.
I love to try out different things with my commissions and one of the reasons things have slacked off is I’ve already gotten a little tired of the standard portraiture type of commissions and those, unfortunately, are usually the most affordable. I also suffer from a situation that once I get a picture in my head, I desperately need to see it. That D&D cartoon commission I had done was the result of having a picture in my head. I was a fan of the show but not so much a fan that I thought I would ever be getting fan art made. My whole Vanessa Lake contest last year was completely tied to my desire to see tons of Vanessa Lake art. It is an expensive compulsion… One I’m guessing you can appreciate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyJudgement View Post
I say, date the nearest cosplayer near you, make her/him/them dress up as YOUR ideas, and snap a lot of pictures.
At this point in my life, I should probably seek to broaden my dating pool… not to make it even more shallow. I’ve already wasted countless years holding out for a double-jointed former gymnast who owns a liquor store and also has an experimental twin sister.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suichiro View Post
NCSoft owns the rights to your character as they appear in game. NCSoft does not own the rights to your original character, as they appear outside of game.

This means that they own Massacre Melanie, the Fire Blast/Dark Miasma corruptor that resides in the Rogue Isles and has adventures burning Paragon to the ground. They do not own Massacre Melanie the corrupt magical faerie who that seethes with arson fill hatred and happens to wear a red leather jacket with combat boots.

Certain costume sets are designed around NPCs or enemy groups they use, such as Kheldians and VEATs, Vanguard, etc. But they don't own the rights to your overall design. If you make use of the very specific NPC parts, then you can get around copyright by simply changing the piece to something more generic.

So don't be afraid that NCSoft owns your soul. They don't. You still own your characters, just not their ties to the game.
Yeah, this had been more or less my understanding but the only thing that gives me pause is that standard dictum that if a company feels that their trademark is violated, they more or less have to act or open the door for other violations in the future. It isn’t necessarily a real fear of mine but it has gotten a lot of mileage in this discussions like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius View Post
Not a cosplay contest as such. It was a Halloween contest with the rules being you submitted an ingame screenie of your toon and then your costume that matched. Had some really cool looking winners.
Yeah, I remember that and I’m sure it is still archived somewhere. Some of them were quite nice.


Attache @ deviantART

Attache's Anti-401k Art Collection