Ice is good with anything.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
It's not that /Ice is bad, but you just have to know what to expect. It probably does the least dps, but it has other things that make it cool. And since tanking is about surviving and taking aggro, /Ice can be great.
|
Originally Posted by obscureent
I really don't know. I gather that Willpower/ is great if slotted correctly, but never hear much about /Ice on a tank, which tells me its a bit unloved. Thoughts?
Thanks |
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
I have a lvl 50 WP/Ice Tanker; I like her....granted she's one of the many 50s that I don't actually play much but....she was fun to level up....mainly because I like 'odd' combos (in fact, I got the idea to make the toon from these forums 
).
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
There are no "bad" combos. Every set just works differently. Some are better at certain things than others. Some sets or combos require more team support to tank certain AVs, but they can all do it with the right team setup and strategy. If all else fails, inspirations can cover a lot of gaps for a limited time.
Willpower / Ice will be good at regeneration and slowing the rate of attacks. Ice Melee isn't a very damaging set, so you will be relying on teammates to kill things. Willpower has high regeneration when enemies are in range, and Ice Melee's recharge debuffs will ensure enemies don't hit very often so your regeneration is more effective. Ice Patch will be your best friend when you get it. Freezing Touch will allow you to hold a boss when double-stacked, but that requires some recharge and hold enhancements.
Overall, it should be just fine for tanking groups of regular enemies. AVs will resist a lot of the recharge debuff, but some is better than none.
I can see plenty of willpower/SS builds in the forums, but nothing...NOTHING on /ice.
I'm thinking Nerve alpha to boost WPs survivability and taunt, but then again, I've never run willpower. Anyone have a build I can see important power selections from?
Quote:
I've never built up a */Ice, but you want Spiritual Alpha for WP's survivability: more +HP & more +Regen. You also get +Recharge, so your better attacks cycle more quickly. Slot for defense, then recharge and go from there.|
Originally Posted by obscureent
I can see plenty of willpower/SS builds in the forums, but nothing...NOTHING on /ice.
I'm thinking Nerve alpha to boost WPs survivability and taunt, but then again, I've never run willpower. Anyone have a build I can see important power selections from? |
*/Ice is loaded with mitigation, which is great for survivability. Thanks to some good AOEs (cone, PBAOE damage/sleep, PBAOE KB/Slow), you won't have quite the aggro concerns of most WP/* Tankers. If you're sticking with the Ice theme, I'd look at Arctic Mastery for Block of Ice (good damage, ranged), Shiver (great debuff, huge cone) and Ice Storm (heavy-hitting, large-radius AOE).
WP/ is probably the #2 set that takes the most advantage of /IM (SD/ being #1 due to AAO boosting /IM's damage). Unless you're consistently on teams, leveling a wp/im might be sluggish until you get Frozen Aura. Post FA, IM has great AoE damage but lacks a solid ST attack chain until you get epic attacks.
Pretty much take all of IM's powers except Greater Ice Sword as it has the most 'meh'. If you can find slots for it, 6 slot Frost, Freezing Touch, and Frozen Aura. Frost for an extra Range IO (extending the range to 13-15' is great). FT you can 4 slot Basilisk Gaze for the def/rech bonuses and toss in 2 Dmg IOs for the damage (also helps with holding bosses). For FA, if possibly, toss in the Call of the Sandman: Chance to Heal proc. My Icer with 2480hp gets 95hp heals when it goes off with a max potential of 950hp if it procs on all 10 targets hit by FA. I've personally seen it go off of 4-6 foes while 2-3 seems common.
Then there's Ice Patch. Ice Patch allows you to sort of tank over your aggro limit. Say you're already capped on foes and some teammates have additional aggro. Just hop over to them, drop IP, and hop back to your original spawn. This, of course, pretty much works only on those who lack KB protection. Also, it only needs the base slot with Recharge to be good to go.
I also vote for Spiritual for your alpha with this combo. the +heal bit will help WP while the recharge will do wonders for IM.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
Streetlight might be right on this, but I haven't personally had success with Willpower and Spiritual...I would much rather have Nerve. Are there other thoughts on this?
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
I've never built up a */Ice, but you want Spiritual Alpha for WP's survivability: more +HP & more +Regen. You also get +Recharge, so your better attacks cycle more quickly. Slot for defense, then recharge and go from there.
|
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Been a long time since I build a WP/ toon. Forgot it can be quite expensive to softcap defense but I took a whack at it anyway.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 4: Frost -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Dmg/Rng(15), Posi-Dam%(33), Range-I(46)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(9), Numna-Heal/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), Ksmt-ToHit+(43)
Level 16: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(17), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 26: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(27), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(43)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(29), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(46)
Level 30: High Pain Tolerance -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Numna-Heal(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(50)
Level 35: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(40), Mocking-Rchg(50)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Gloom -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Ragnrk-Dmg(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Spiritual Total Radial Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(27), Mrcl-Heal(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13)
Code:
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SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
Nerve works out to around 3.5% defense at most for any particular type, IIRC. That's not difficult to make up in IOs and slotting. It's a lot more difficult to make up at least 30% global recharge (2/3 of the 45% isn't impacted by ED), plus at least 22% more +HP and +Regen (not 22% Regen, but 22% of your base Regen enhancement in each Regen power, which is a LOT more than 22%).
|
Originally Posted by shaggy5
Streetlight might be right on this, but I haven't personally had success with Willpower and Spiritual...I would much rather have Nerve. Are there other thoughts on this?
|
Quote:
If you want survivability it's great, if you want damage it's not.|
Originally Posted by obscureent
I really don't know. I gather that Willpower/ is great if slotted correctly, but never hear much about /Ice on a tank, which tells me its a bit unloved. Thoughts?
Thanks |
Personally it's not a combo that I'd run because I like to solo occasionally.
Willpower goes well with SS because it allows you to manage the End crash.
/Ice goes well with SD/ and Fire/.
SD boosts IM damage and gains extra survivability.
Fire works well for the Ice Patch/Burn combo, although this is less applicable since fear was removed from burn. Fire/Ice is a good combo giving a good mix of damage and survivability, the secondary adding survivability to the primary and the primary adding damage to the secondary.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
The goal of a tank when I make one is survivability. I know I'll catch some backlash for saying this, but there is nothing more I hate than doing an STF and getting all the way to the end to find that our tank can't hold Recluse's attention/stay alive, even with buffers/healers.
So the goal of this tank I think would be to stay alive and hold aggro easily, and hold mobs and AVs (HAHAHA) in place while the rest of the team cuts them down.
This will be a strictly teaming character. (Unless I'm forced to do something solo.)
I hear a lot of people chattering about ice patch, so it would make sense to boost the recharge on that as it is an easy and effective way of immobilizing groups, right?
But at the same time, Ive got to stay alive so defense/damage resistance also needs to be high, BUT THEN AGAIN, i assume there needs to endurance fixes for the end crash.
All that being said, Would it be a bad idea to slot for defense/damage resistance and endurance recovery, then go alpha spiritual for recharge?
Quote:
I have this same opinion. I believe that, for the most part, Tanks are built to keep aggro and take damage (meaning the rest of the team can do their thing). I don't have any tanks that can't solo, but I don't gear everything for this ability. Just my opinion, but if I am looking for a purely solo toon, I would think a Brute would be such a better option, because it can tank pretty well, but can damage (usually) much more.
|
Originally Posted by obscureent
The goal of a tank when I make one is survivability. I know I'll catch some backlash for saying this, but there is nothing more I hate than doing an STF and getting all the way to the end to find that our tank can't hold Recluse's attention/stay alive, even with buffers/healers.
So the goal of this tank I think would be to stay alive and hold aggro easily, and hold mobs and AVs (HAHAHA) in place while the rest of the team cuts them down. This will be a strictly teaming character. (Unless I'm forced to do something solo.) I hear a lot of people chattering about ice patch, so it would make sense to boost the recharge on that as it is an easy and effective way of immobilizing groups, right? But at the same time, Ive got to stay alive so defense/damage resistance also needs to be high, BUT THEN AGAIN, i assume there needs to endurance fixes for the end crash. All that being said, Would it be a bad idea to slot for defense/damage resistance and endurance recovery, then go alpha spiritual for recharge? |
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Quote:
I am not disagreeing, I just haven't seen +regen help me that much in terms of survivability. When I am tanking a large mob, I haven't seen that I live much longer because my green bar moves up a bit faster. I would love to know that I am doing something wrong, though.
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
Nerve works out to around 3.5% defense at most for any particular type, IIRC. That's not difficult to make up in IOs and slotting. It's a lot more difficult to make up at least 30% global recharge (2/3 of the 45% isn't impacted by ED), plus at least 22% more +HP and +Regen (not 22% Regen, but 22% of your base Regen enhancement in each Regen power, which is a LOT more than 22%).
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Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Quote:
With any defense set, it's usually best to work towards softcapping that defense. Of course, for WP that can be easy or hard depending on secondary. After defense, go for a mix of +hp/regen/recharge. Spiritual Alpha will definitely add to this, too. As far as Endurance goes, you should be ok with 2 +recovery powers and slotting in attacks. End drains can still get you, but that's what blue skittles are for.
|
Originally Posted by obscureent
The goal of a tank when I make one is survivability. I know I'll catch some backlash for saying this, but there is nothing more I hate than doing an STF and getting all the way to the end to find that our tank can't hold Recluse's attention/stay alive, even with buffers/healers.
So the goal of this tank I think would be to stay alive and hold aggro easily, and hold mobs and AVs (HAHAHA) in place while the rest of the team cuts them down. This will be a strictly teaming character. (Unless I'm forced to do something solo.) I hear a lot of people chattering about ice patch, so it would make sense to boost the recharge on that as it is an easy and effective way of immobilizing groups, right? But at the same time, Ive got to stay alive so defense/damage resistance also needs to be high, BUT THEN AGAIN, i assume there needs to endurance fixes for the end crash. All that being said, Would it be a bad idea to slot for defense/damage resistance and endurance recovery, then go alpha spiritual for recharge? |
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
The benefit out of spiritual alpha solely depends upon how the tank is built and how much INF is available to the person trying to IO a WP tank. With that said, the build i posted gains about 10hp/sec regen with 1 foe in range of RttC and abou 19hp/sec regen with 10 foes in range from the spiritual alpha. Going nerve spiritual on a WP tank offers useful bonuses as well, to a certain extent. About 1.9% defense boost to smash/lethal with the build posted and about 3.3% defense to energy/negative/fire/cold. | I am not disagreeing, I just haven't seen +regen help me that much in terms of survivability. When I am tanking a large mob, I haven't seen that I live much longer because my green bar moves up a bit faster. I would love to know that I am doing something wrong, though. |
If you have the influence to acquire a gladiator's armor: +3% def to all then I would recommend going spiritual. If you do not, nerve may help out in reaching that 45% soft cap for regular (none incarnate) content. With that said, I'd also like to point out that RttC, in addition to providing great regen, also applies a 3.5% tohit debuff on foes within range. This will provide a 3.5% buffer buffer zone if your build is already soft caped, or you can shoot for about 42% def and still be effectively softcapped to any foes in melee range.
If you plan on running STF, the towers that buff Lord Recluse also buff his tohit. So to truly be soft caped against Lord Recluse when tanking him, you will need extra defense and heals from teammate buffs/insps, or have defense somewhere around 70-75%.
One other note (unless this has been changed), both WP and IM can greatly benefit from using a huge/tall body build for your character. The radius on ice patch is 9'. Using a huge/tall body build will essentially extend that radius further outward, allowing ice patch and RttC to affect more foes. This should be true (unless it was changed) for any PBAoE powers.
Code:
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Edit* Dark consumption can quickly fill your endurance back up, filling in one of the holes in WP.
Well I'm no tanker expert so please take this build with a grain of salt and some patience. I tried to see where I could get a nice mix of MaxHP/Regen/Def and still have decent accuracy, recovery, and some debuff 
Here is what I was able to come up with:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Cold Chill: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(34), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 2: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(19), Heal-I(21)
Level 4: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), HO:Nucle(33)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(9), Numna-Heal(11)
Level 10: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(13), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15)
Level 14: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(33), Numna-Heal/Rchg(34), Mrcl-Heal(34), Mrcl-Rcvry+(36), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(37)
Level 16: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(23)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(21)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(46)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(29), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(29), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(31), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(31), HO:Nucle(31)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(43)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(40), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Dark Obliteration -- Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(48), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(48), Cloud-ToHitDeb(48)
Level 49: Summon Widow -- C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(50), C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Boost
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), RgnTis-Regen+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(7), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(7), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(11)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1437;705;1410;HEX;| |78DA6593EB6E125110C7CFB2D0CA96DAD6B6D01BE522150A650B6A62D546137BD19| |A36A152E32743909E16E2862540A3FDE63368A21FF4398CFA2EDE626BD5787B0183| |B3F33F25346C587EB37366FF73CEECCCC6E3659F104FAE0BCDB764151B8DC256B1F| |A50D68D2D592A576DCBDEDD37966C6B3BBC54AE5856AF10620C018565B923AB0D69| |DE237FCD7E24EB7EB5B0212D29CDB5928435B4562DCBBAAC36CD63C397B36DCB5C9| |7C55AA5BA6BF043BE26E5763F9BAB95DD729316068EA3B665BD51AED4022BB54AC9| |BC51DF6BCA42DEDEB30A1BC54653D6F7C7684F49BA0FBDF4A7D12D5ABA889211179| |169C6D91010614C18425D2D8F48B984C80A571C4830DCB34092915EA448B72EBE92| |BCA6E4B5BB9AB3746613C8334662C2C124C9EB9077EB394254F837191377803C23A| |C748F48D7035DE11965A56FE4EAE55C2DBD770161A78E899C067610A4645E2413DE| |165DE23B3DF6A96DF6BDE013F89E02CF18A79F330E28AE1F719E7E8885211DC1712| |26B28DA6D462C40088A69CA37807CDAC04B121A16FE578C1FA437043D6D08C718B9| |842D870C27009B1C8E7091FCD448A32A7A14D1E97FC2C910A59500565C8114078F9| |D804601E350D3C751DF38EA9B447DC3AABE9475527DE6C9653EF3D40AB0CA98BE09| |DC02D4E7D0493EA8EA1744FBC4D03E31F4541C5DF493CE1B52870A9DD7B961E8D5A| |83A5414874AAA12446933336A33330B9CF0DC65E00A7095115F3CD17325D24DA85E| |4ACCF1D26C1A98074C4632C3F848839C527B4FBD66D7DC1BE02DF08E2149D654253| |48F5C4ED9E70F8103E00B6387E2322A2EF3995DD94FC007E03D63CADD9E28FA395D| |38EB6ECF622BD9B59AE9F264BB3C17BA3C17BB3CEB5D9E9C5BA5258FC61EEF607B1| |C5BBF8CF6080B2DCDDDF4C7E89AEAD31883418CC1E0356EFCDF9DAF26F8D5BF9DAF| |62D27A30693D98340393B649BD9F55B5B86F38CD01BBD8613FE8B0731DF67F5C17E| |BE8| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Dreaded Wail hits things freakin' hard.. i like to hit things freakin' hard... so.. id go Wail... SAVE THE WAILS!!!! - Solar_Lunata
Quote:
That shouldn't be true. Is that really the case?
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Originally Posted by William441
One other note (unless this has been changed), both WP and IM can greatly benefit from using a huge/tall body build for your character. The radius on ice patch is 9'. Using a huge/tall body build will essentially extend that radius further outward, allowing ice patch and RttC to affect more foes. This should be true (unless it was changed) for any PBAoE powers.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
As far as I know, it's a visual effect only. I believe the actual radius doesn't change, just the size of the graphics effect.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I have a wp/ice sitting at 42ish. He's pretty sturdy - I tanked an all dps ITF on him and did fine, even though enemies pretty much ignore ice patch and I don't have much debuff resist.
He doesn't have capped S/L or anything either... pretty basic build.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Quote:
I think Ice Melee has yet to shake it's reputation from back when it was truly an abysmal damage set. It's actually one of the better melee sets for AoE damage now, though it still lacks somewhat vs single targets.|
Originally Posted by obscureent
I really don't know. I gather that Willpower/ is great if slotted correctly, but never hear much about /Ice on a tank, which tells me its a bit unloved. Thoughts?
Thanks |
It got changed quite a long time ago, but there's been little notable shift in it's perception.
I have a WP/Ice tank myself, and I find him very enjoyable (though ice SFX still rather annoy me).
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
IM doesn't have a good ST attack chain on its own, but toss in the ST attack from an epic pool and it will round out a ST chain pretty well if you have some global recharge in your build. With 82.5% I can run FF > FT > IS > Gloom > IS > FT > IS > Gloom > FF pretty well and fixes one of the issues I had with the set - soloing and bosses. Hasten on top of the global recharge makes the chain even more seamless. An alternative to using an epic attack could be Frost. I'll have to test that out at some point.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
I think Ice Melee has yet to shake it's reputation from back when it was truly an abysmal damage set. It's actually one of the better melee sets for AoE damage now, though it still lacks somewhat vs single targets.
It got changed quite a long time ago, but there's been little notable shift in it's perception. I have a WP/Ice tank myself, and I find him very enjoyable (though ice SFX still rather annoy me). |
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Here's my planned build. Currently level 42 (as mentioned), and nowhere near here, so it will only get better...
I'm still kind of up in the air about the epic stuff, I may take Shiver instead of Ice Blast or Resurgence for some extra taunting. As far as Alpha slots... either muscle (radial paragon for +endmod & -tohit debuff) or spiritual. I'm thinking probably M though, since spiritual only adds 5-10 hps/sec regen, minimal +HP and only cuts half a second off of Frozen Aura with my slotting.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
PsiBorg Alpha: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), Heal-I(5), Numna-Heal/Rchg(5), Numna-Heal(7)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Knock%(9), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Frost -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(21), Posi-Dmg/Rng(21), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(25), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), P'Shift-End%(43)
Level 14: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 22: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam(33)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam(42)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(37), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(37)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(43), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(46), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46)
Level 44: Ice Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(50)
Level 49: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(39), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(11)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1367;676;1352;HEX;| |78DA6593C96E134110867B3CE3048F6D626775E2C45B563B898905771408489112C| |90906C42918D3D8438619CBB604B9F10C5C38B15E7340627D11961760CB02E40D4C| |4DFD4D2234238FBFEE7FAAABABBBAAD61FAC448478785E68918B76B5DDDEAA549D6| |DD9322BB2D6705CDBADEF44CB6DEB82DBAA6796ED66A3DA2B8448C0666B45DE914E| |5B16AF5BB6DD74EFCBD6B0FAB02E6D298BAB3589517CD569C896743AC57F8370D97| |5EDE265DBAA373A518CBDA1E5D4FF9F4578B626AB4D9A0C5C6A5AB5E272ABD6B16A| |5BEBD57647B6761214CE34BD5F43F4A7D12BBA41B140288980C208C913C298E2997| |145F3D0739531660AF5740D5126E444CF06E3D4265061983708B32269AA3DC85CAB| |B1BFC84DA0CA387D1B908CEF14938E98023A368C61FBFE0DC638F90BC25F30F886D| |7F4BF650CBE03DE33863F00F38C9FE4B657F3FC76F55EB84DC05F02DEC72A8C1F64| |17C2F62294E5A57B2485B161209C6129F628E0A1F09811A6F4466120A249DD93349| |2FA94D4D7A547EC9397381CEBF1184E12070619A921469A8E378095DA00624F01DF| |C8C390F23094D2BCBB4DA519992C9063E8B4F788B21B81C118CC276197879D4176A| |3CA6E1411E511511E1115105186224AAA042691B90C529645CAB2C86AF61663C2F4| |2A07F99968F0054D5AC03DC6D45D601BB0198774B8B4BAF7F40217CE30C59753520| |EA1E44C14AEE77B7A2FE06D34B30F1C30660F018743997519654AC91C56E9731FD9| |A0F099B1F809F8C2D820BB79E57DFE392F5D7801BC049E30169F324ACF189BB4AAA| |8AEA7B8CBD29957C06B006559DAE5231CD0419754652C21B1E3C67143D1CF2B9635| |9F52368EBB486871C17D9B378EDBB71B8A51DBE07BF797D771EAE2345EFDDBA7FC3| |95102DA358E6C066D51425B1C9D186802756EA2EA977CC1157C4AC9A79CF329677D| |CA5F3F91E3C1| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Quote:
This may be true, but a larger body type seems to increase the radius of the character itself which, I believe, may cause an increase in the radius of PBAoE attacks. This is where a power such as ice patch can gain some more benefit, but I may be wrong.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
As far as I know, it's a visual effect only. I believe the actual radius doesn't change, just the size of the graphics effect.
|
I really don't know. I gather that Willpower/ is great if slotted correctly, but never hear much about /Ice on a tank, which tells me its a bit unloved. Thoughts?
Thanks