City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Why aren't you buffing?

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-25 16:02 in Suggestions and Ideas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Wow, I completely forgot about Power Boost. That's going to almost become a required power for FFers and Icers.
Power Boost doesn't work on ice shields (they are tagged to not accept buffs since they also provide a resistance buff).

 

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When I make a character that buffs I think it fair to assume that the team leader will expect them off of me when invited to a team. Certainly its not always easy to be on time everytime, the healthbar moving is still something of a reminder.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Power Boost doesn't work on ice shields (they are tagged to not accept buffs since they also provide a resistance buff).
I don't see why not. And Power Boost effects have no effect on resistance buffs on any powers anyway. That is, if you can PB FF's shields, it'll boost the defense but the toxic resist won't change.

 

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Curious that we haven't heard from Bill or others after more information was unveiled.

Are you still feeling the same about these changes Bill? I'm certain it doesn't solve any issues you have currently with how the game functions, but does it at least leave you where you're at?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I don't see why not. And Power Boost effects have no effect on resistance buffs on any powers anyway. That is, if you can PB FF's shields, it'll boost the defense but the toxic resist won't change.
It's a problem with the overall power system. Basically due to the way things are set up Damage and Resistance Enhancements function the same way. This means that Damage Buffs increase the effectiveness of resistance powers. To counter this ALL resistance powers have to be set either to not accept resistance enhancements (i.e. Deflection Shield) or have to be set not to accept external buffs (as is the case with Cold Domination's Shields). Since the shields are set not to accept external buffs Power Boost does not work on them.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Curious that we haven't heard from Bill or others after more information was unveiled.

Are you still feeling the same about these changes Bill? I'm certain it doesn't solve any issues you have currently with how the game functions, but does it at least leave you where you're at?
Well, not as vocal as Bill was about these changes, but figured I could pipe in a bit here. Basically, my stance was that the last we had heard from the Devs was that if they ever made these kinds of buffs AoE, they'd make the End cost or Recharge time higher. Basically, if they gave them a "buff", then they'd give it a nerf somewhere else. Seeing as I didn't mind how they were, I probably wouldn't have liked the nerfs.

However, right now, it looks like we're getting our cake and eating it, too. However, it does seem to me further evidence that the Devs don't mind giving us more power, but there's little thought to balance. Granted, this change doesn't seem that bad in terms of balance (and it's not), but a buffer now has X more time to attack, which is a straight buff to those characters.

This change, combined with a few other recent incorporations and buffs does make me wonder if the new set of Devs even care about balance and/or power creep (I'm looking at you, Reactive Interface and rains).

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Well, not as vocal as Bill was about these changes, but figured I could pipe in a bit here. Basically, my stance was that the last we had heard from the Devs was that if they ever made these kinds of buffs AoE, they'd make the End cost or Recharge time higher. Basically, if they gave them a "buff", then they'd give it a nerf somewhere else. Seeing as I didn't mind how they were, I probably wouldn't have liked the nerfs.

However, right now, it looks like we're getting our cake and eating it, too. However, it does seem to me further evidence that the Devs don't mind giving us more power, but there's little thought to balance. Granted, this change doesn't seem that bad in terms of balance (and it's not), but a buffer now has X more time to attack, which is a straight buff to those characters.

This change, combined with a few other recent incorporations and buffs does make me wonder if the new set of Devs even care about balance and/or power creep (I'm looking at you, Reactive Interface and rains).
My thoughts on this really echo Aett's. One thing I've been somewhat concerned about looking at the whole Incarnate bit is power creep and balance.

I'd really like to hear the dev thoughts on this - I mean, they're saying "QOL," but are they also saying "There's so much def available via IOs it doesn't matter this is AOE?" Is it actually depreciating the sets?

If so, does the "Game not changed for IOs" no longer hold true and are they now actually becoming required? I've had friends say (and I somewhat agree) that it's like Statesman's "We arent' changing powers again!" just before ED was introduced - kind of "lawyering" it in being true to the words but not to the spirit, as newer enemies seem designed with the thought players will have a lot of IO'd up defense/recharge/etc.

If not... and yes, I know I sound somewhat like this - when are the devs going to look at the overall power level and go "woah," then hit us with another global nerf in six months or a year? I don't think the game could weather a hit like that - yes, we weathered ED/GDN, but we *also* had a spike in subs thanks to COV and made up the population.

Nutshell version - I worry about the devs losing sight of long-term viability for the sake of "oh, cool."

 

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FINALLY.

Now I may try an alt that uses the mentioned powersets.

IMO they need to be balancing around endgame now anyway, so it's possible this is considered necessary to bring the buff sets up to par.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina View Post
IMO they need to be balancing around endgame now anyway, so it's possible this is considered necessary to bring the buff sets up to par.
There's also something called "The rest of the game." No, they don't need to balance around the endgame. I don't want my level 15 controller balanced around level 50+3 buffs they may never see, having to face ridiculous -def, -recharge, +tohit on enemies and the like. They need to *balance* the endgame, yes - and I still think it'd be best to have the powers have strength/timing/recharge X when outside the trials, and be stronger inside "Incarnate Content." We know they can flag it that way - it'd keep them from trivializing the rest of the content (45+ at least, but that's not insignificant.)

 

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And on the other hand, some of the way things are deserve to be changed if only because the old way of thinking wasn't quite right. This is one PoV often sited when people bring up crashing nukes and lobby for changing them.

See old self-stunning nukes, old self-damaging MoG, old self-immobilizing Unyielding Stance, old 'only one toggle armor at a time' mentality, etc. Even *if* it's power creeping, does it accomplish what the original game had intended *better* for our gaming experience? And does it break the game? That, IMO, is what's important here.

I'm still weary of power creep when I take my stance on the issue (yeah, I still don't think removing/softening the crash on nukes or tier 9s is necessary even if they lower the damage or weaken the buff portion) and what I realize with this new change is that buffers would simply spend less time buffing...That's it. It's hardly the change to start calling in for power creeping.

 

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PS: Lol you want to start talking about power creeping? What about inherent stamina? While I wasn't particularly against it, I do feel it made every character a good deal powerful while removing power pool options.

So there

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
PS: Lol you want to start talking about power creeping? What about inherent stamina? While I wasn't particularly against it, I do feel it made every character a good deal powerful while removing power pool options.

So there
I'd have preferred to have the END draining abilities of enemies removed/nerfed from the lower levels, which was more of an issue, IMHO. Having someone pre-20 (IE, guaranteed not to have stamina) hit with multiple Clockwork or Mu blasts was just wrong - and given it's a -recov as well, no amount of END reduction did much (especially pre-SO levels.) But that ship has sailed.

Then again, it's balanced (there's that word again) by *having* more powers to select... thus having more stuff burning END earlier and harder.

(And grammar nitpick - "wary," not weary, unless it's made you tired as opposed to cautious. )

 

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I actually was against inherent stamina...

Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Then again, it's balanced (there's that word again) by *having* more powers to select... thus having more stuff burning END earlier and harder.
I depends, really. You see, my Kat/SR scrapper has *more* endurance now because all he did was pick up Calling the Wolf (cost no endurance), Physical Perfection, Elude (because he already had capped defense but adding some +recovery wouldn't hurt even with a momentary crash) and Focused Accuracy (because he needed *something* to burn the extra endurance while running Elude...the power is only slotted with a BU proc).

Several of my characters that didn't have Fitness to begin with simply have it tacked on.

Many that add powers to replace old Fitness are things like Recall Friend or something they may have passed over before like a taunt or low cost power like hover.

If you mean while leveling, yeah, I still look for low-slot powers like Recall or a passive like Temperature Protection to round out my slots moreso than my endurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommunistPenguin View Post
I actually was against inherent stamina...
When inherent stamina was announced, I was sort of against it because it just forces everyone to take it despite concept. I actually like the idea of inherent pools. My Kat/SR would be inherently fit, but some of my characters are inherently tough (Fighting Pool) or inherently good leaders (Leadership) or have inherently enhanced presence (Presence). I feel it would have been better for concepts to allow players to choose which pool became inherent to their character.