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That often quoted line from Shakespeare's Henry VI, Part 2 ("The first thing we'll do, let's kill all the lawyers.") is misunderstood. The context is a couple of murderous low-life guys were dreaming of what they would do if one of them could become king. The actual intent of the line is somewhat in dispute even by Shakespeare scholars, but since it was spoken by Dick the Butcher, a wise-cracking murderous bad guy, many believe it is, in fact, a back-handed compliment to lawyers and their role of protecting rights. |
Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
First thing we do. Kill all of the lawyers.
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Folks forget that there are lawyers on either side of most disputes. The problem is that the lawyers have hate directed at them due to the circumstances. Think about it. If you get sued, you hate the other lawyer, win or lose. If you lose, you hate your own lawyer, too. Even if you win, you are not too fond of your own lawyer, even if he or she did a great job, once you get the bill.
And yet most attorneys work hard to do a great job dealing with the messes their clients get into. Like any profession, there are bad ones but the majority are very good.
Sorry for the threadjack, but misuse of that quote is a pet peeve of mine.
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So? Practically half of the songs you can find use a chord progression directly cribbed from Pachelbel's Canon in D.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Because, to the ear, they sound a ton a like.
And, someone put portions of the song side by side to play them (no link handy) and the melodies were nearly identical through the chorus. (Look, for someone that grew up in the 80s, Gaga is pure early Madonna rip off in style and sound. It's fine, but it is incredibly obvious and the denials crack me up.) |
The subject matter of the songs are different, the melodies are somewhat similar, but not the point of being the same.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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I thought people hated lawyers because it was becoming more about the WIN with prosecuters, than anything else.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
That often quoted line from Shakespeare's Henry VI, Part 2 ("The first thing we'll do, let's kill all the lawyers.") is misunderstood. The context is a couple of murderous low-life guys were dreaming of what they would do if one of them could become king. The actual intent of the line is somewhat in dispute even by Shakespeare scholars, but since it was spoken by Dick the Butcher, a wise-cracking murderous bad guy, many believe it is, in fact, a back-handed compliment to lawyers and their role of protecting rights.
Folks forget that there are lawyers on either side of most disputes. The problem is that the lawyers have hate directed at them due to the circumstances. Think about it. If you get sued, you hate the other lawyer, win or lose. If you lose, you hate your own lawyer, too. Even if you win, you are not too fond of your own lawyer, even if he or she did a great job, once you get the bill. And yet most attorneys work hard to do a great job dealing with the messes their clients get into. Like any profession, there are bad ones but the majority are very good. Sorry for the threadjack, but misuse of that quote is a pet peeve of mine. |
"He's innocent, we know this, but the evidence also points to him."
"Well we need to punish someone and we've come this far!"
Defense attorney's, well, like I always say, if I need defended, I want them to pull out all there is to let me win.
So of course, people are going to hate them too.That said, is it misquoting or just using a well known quote, in a new context?
Would of it made any difference if they said "Let's kill all the lawyers first"?
As for whether or not Gaga did or did not give permission at first, not something we'll ever really know. Right now they all say she didnt even know, and it's quite possible that's how it was.
Still just as possible for them to change their mind but want to save face. Personally, I think Wierd Al's done better songs.
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I know. That's why it cracks me up. The flat denials are sooo transparent.|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
So? Practically half of the songs you can find use a chord progression directly cribbed from Pachelbel's Canon in D.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
The subject matter of the songs are different, the melodies are somewhat similar, but not the point of being the same.
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I wish I wasn't at work and could spend the time to find the link, but the melodies were well beyond similar in the most recent instance...
Don't get me wrong, she is talented enough to be entertaining when I catch it on the radio. I begrudge her and her 'performance' nothing, but I'm not spending any of my cash on it
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Because, to the ear, they sound a ton a like.
And, someone put portions of the song side by side to play them (no link handy) and the melodies were nearly identical through the chorus. (Look, for someone that grew up in the 80s, Gaga is pure early Madonna rip off in style and sound. It's fine, but it is incredibly obvious and the denials crack me up.) |
It's funny, my wife was a huge Madonna fan growing up (H u g e), all her records, wore the lace underwear outside et al, but she doesn't hear any likeness to M's music in G's latest release.
When I heard gaga's latest song on the other hand, and without any knowledge of the heated net buzz of ripoff it's created, the similarity to two of Madonnas songs instantly hit me to the extent I was filling in the lyrics with "Deitrich and DiMaggio..".
/while bantering over fluff
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Someone needs to put a link of those two songs (Madonna's Express Yourself and Lady Gaga's Born this way) side by side so us techilliterate people can see what all the fuss is about.
Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!
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Lady Gaga and Madonna Ripoff Controversy: Born This Way and Express Yourself Full Song Overlay
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Originally Posted by 2short2care
Someone needs to put a link of those two songs (Madonna's Express Yourself and Lady Gaga's Born this way) side by side so us techilliterate people can see what all the fuss is about.
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Thank you very much Zombie Man *hugs* oh wait you're a zombie *runs away*
Cancel the kitchen scraps for widows and lepers, no more merciful beheadings and call off christmas!
I believe this one does the best job of highlighting their similarities in structure, but also some of their differences. It also sounds the best, I was looking for one of these a while back. A much closer match in melody and sound is Katy Perry's ET and t.A.T.u.'s All the Things She Said.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
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Obvious.
The greatest form of flattery is..
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Same chord progression? Yes. Almost all of pop uses the same chord progression.
Same 'style'? Yes. Pop disco is pop disco. Almost all of pop disco sounds like almost all of pop disco.
Same melody. No.
An obvious homage that's derivative but not plagiarism.
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What makes pop music popular is familiarity. If a song doesn't kind of remind you of another one, it probably won't be very successful.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
Obvious.
The greatest form of flattery is.. . |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
An obvious homage that's derivative but not plagiarism.
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
What makes pop music popular is familiarity. If a song doesn't kind of remind you of another one, it probably won't be very successful.
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She probably benefits from having a 'deeper' ear due to that level of fandom. I was only a limited fan (though I may still have a couple of tapes around somewhere - in additiona to a couple cds...). The first time I heard a Gaga song, every time I hear one of her songs for the first time I immediately focus on it to clear my filter that it isn't Madonna.|
Originally Posted by Acemace
It's funny, my wife was a huge Madonna fan growing up (H u g e), all her records, wore the lace underwear outside et al, but she doesn't hear any likeness to M's music in G's latest release.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
When I heard gaga's latest song on the other hand, and without any knowledge of the heated net buzz of ripoff it's created, the similarity to two of Madonnas songs instantly hit me to the extent I was filling in the lyrics with "Deitrich and DiMaggio..".
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
An obvious homage that's derivative but not plagiarism.
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And I know "no press is bad press" but she has had a rough go of the last month or so...
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Wow, it's hard for me to believe people don't find Gaga's tune to be "heavily influenced" by "Express Yourself". To be honest, the first time I heard it, I was thinking it was a remake of "Express Yourself", then I thought it was sampling it. I was honestly surprised when I read that it's supposed to be completely independent of it. If you buy that they're similar in that any pop music can be similar than you probably buy that "Ice Ice Baby" is coincidentally similar to "Under Pressure".
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Born This Way has no comparison to Express Yourself
Then again I may be a "little" biased
I'm a Little Monster and everything she does is amazing
Mother Monster is my inspiration and haters may hate but in my eyes they won't ever have a point
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Originally Posted by Olympus_NA
Born This Way has no comparison to Express Yourself
Then again I may be a "little" biased I'm a Little Monster and everything she does is amazing Mother Monster is my inspiration and haters may hate but in my eyes they won't ever have a point |
Indeed. ;]
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Cat blood aside I don't "hate" Lady Gaga at all and I actually -do- have a point.|
Originally Posted by Olympus_NA
Born This Way has no comparison to Express Yourself
Then again I may be a "little" biased I'm a Little Monster and everything she does is amazing Mother Monster is my inspiration and haters may hate but in my eyes they won't ever have a point |
Lady Gaga is the 2011 version of Madonna, period.
That doesn't make either one of them more or less entertaining than the other.
It's just blatantly obvious to anyone over 30 years old who watched MTV back when they actually played music. *shrugs*
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Hey, I'm the good kind of crazy and weird :P|
Originally Posted by Acemace
Indeed. ;]
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Crazy cat ladies are just...erm...yeah...
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Except that Mother Monster disagrees with you.|
Originally Posted by Olympus_NA
Born This Way has no comparison to Express Yourself
Then again I may be a "little" biased I'm a Little Monster and everything she does is amazing Mother Monster is my inspiration and haters may hate but in my eyes they won't ever have a point |
Don't know why fans are trying to protect her from stuff she doesn't want to be protected from.
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As with old age, taxes and democracy, the alternatives to lawyers are worse.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
And yet most attorneys work hard to do a great job dealing with the messes their clients get into. Like any profession, there are bad ones but the majority are very good.
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I have never understood rabid fandom for media or entertainment.
I don't mean liking something. Everyone does that.
I mean being SO invested in a media icon or other entertainment element that they start identifying with the subject, often publicly aggressively labeling themselves as part of a fan group. So invested that they get actually emotionally upset when someone posts negatively about their particular obsession, as if they themselves were personally being insulted.
-np
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Well for what it's worth the concept of the Cult of Personality has probably been around since the beginning of time. Perhaps the only "weird" part in this case is that people are letting the likes of Lady Gaga become the focus of their attentions. As always YMMV.
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
I have never understood rabid fandom for media or entertainment.
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It probably dosen't help that I'm a cynical suspicious git, huh?
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
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And, someone put portions of the song side by side to play them (no link handy) and the melodies were nearly identical through the chorus.
(Look, for someone that grew up in the 80s, Gaga is pure early Madonna rip off in style and sound. It's fine, but it is incredibly obvious and the denials crack me up.)