That pretty much covers it. It was a decent episode.
Damn but why couldn't most of the series have been like the last several episodes? Then it wouldn't be being canceled.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
What bothers me about the colony founding is simply that at some point, cousins are going to be marrying cousins with regularity. Either that or they have a much more pragmatic approach to genetic diversity, namely everyone breeds with everyone whilst keeping a track record of who is the baby-daddy and momma to prevent half-sisters and half-brothers from marrying. However, given the marriage ceremony between Scott and Chloe in the preview, that probably is being tossed out the window. There's also the seeming disparity between the number of men and number of women (at least from what I've seen).
Something else bothering me is the language. We've seen pretty big drift in English simply in the last couple hundred years. Is it really that feasible to expect English to remain the same for 2000+ years? Now, granted, they have the spoken records to reinforce "our" English in the minds of the populace rather than just text documents.
I had half-thought that Novus was invaded/destroyed by the drones, but guess not.
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That's why I mentioned our RL experts who theorize the number of people needed to start a successful colony range from 15 to 5,000. If the experts are that diverse how can we claim that Destiny doesn't have enough people.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
What bothers me about the colony founding is simply that at some point, cousins are going to be marrying cousins with regularity. Either that or they have a much more pragmatic approach to genetic diversity, namely everyone breeds with everyone whilst keeping a track record of who is the baby-daddy and momma to prevent half-sisters and half-brothers from marrying. However, given the marriage ceremony between Scott and Chloe in the preview, that probably is being tossed out the window. There's also the seeming disparity between the number of men and number of women (at least from what I've seen).
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http://www.wonderquest.com/space-colonization.htm
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| Something else bothering me is the language. We've seen pretty big drift in English simply in the last couple hundred years. Is it really that feasible to expect English to remain the same for 2000+ years? Now, granted, they have the spoken records to reinforce "our" English in the minds of the populace rather than just text documents. |
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Fifteen might be possible with loosened requirement on monogamy. The thing about that colony in your link is that they were supplemented with outside genes. The Destinyites don't have that luxury. What they had at the start is what they ended up with, with no possible influx of fresh blood.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's why I mentioned our RL experts who theorize the number of people needed to start a successful colony range from 15 to 5,000. If the experts are that diverse how can we claim that Destiny doesn't have enough people.
http://www.wonderquest.com/space-colonization.htm |
I really can't see them lasting for 2000 years with that small amount of people and maintaining the "traditional" marriage. Though they do have the benefit of a wide array of base genes, and excepting Volker's renal problem, no seeming major diseases.
Fun sidebar...if you have an interest in genetics and such, one should look into the National Genographic Project. By contributing DNA swabs, one can examine the route that your genes have taken over the Earth. My parents did it and the results were pretty neat. It actually helped answer some questions regarding my family history.
It was a decent episode but I had a couple problems with it.
One: In the kino records after 10 years on the planet they had a small village built. They didn't bring any tools through the gate with them but this is still reasonable and possible. When I was a kid friends and I built a small log cabin with nothing more than a couple machetes. It wasn't exactly weatherproof but we were only around 12 years old so it's not only possible but likely that a group of adults could create a small town in 10 years.
And that brings me to the actual problem. 30 years on the new planet and the descendents were still living in tent towns? Not a single permanent structure to be seen.
And now the second problem. Throughout the different series we have seen gates hit by various weapons from Goa'uld to Wraith as our various heroes made last minute escapes. Those gates have survived though and the reason for that was perfectly logical. They are supposedly made of a superconducting material which would either dissipate or channel the energy away. Then there is the episode from season 1 where Eli mentioned that if the gate were damaged by a large enough explosion then it would detonate and take a large chunk out of the planet.
So just two minor points that stuck out as incongruous to me.
I actually consider that a good thing. Around the middle of season 1 I would have had so many problems with an episode that things like this would have been minor. It would have been just a couple pebbles in the avalanche. This is just like the way last weeks episode caused such a huge discussion over something relatively small in the overall scheme of things. It takes a really good show to make little things stand out. And SGU has become that really good show.
I also thought of another minor point but I think they are going to save that for next weeks episode. If the ship's life support can't handle all those people then they should put them in stasis. After all they have already proved that the tubes work. But I'm guessing that next week it will come down to a dilemma of leaving the colony people behind on a frozen planet or else overload the life support systems. Then Eli will come up with the idea of using the stasis tubes.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
The gate thing could be explained by these being precursors to the gates found in the Milky Way. Not a very good explanation for the ease with which it was disabled, but an explanation nonetheless.
The gate thing was the biggest bug bear for me too.
other than that it was a pretty solid show.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Fifteen might be possible with loosened requirement on monogamy. The thing about that colony in your link is that they were supplemented with outside genes. The Destinyites don't have that luxury. What they had at the start is what they ended up with, with no possible influx of fresh blood.
I really can't see them lasting for 2000 years with that small amount of people and maintaining the "traditional" marriage. Though they do have the benefit of a wide array of base genes, and excepting Volker's renal problem, no seeming major diseases. Fun sidebar...if you have an interest in genetics and such, one should look into the National Genographic Project. By contributing DNA swabs, one can examine the route that your genes have taken over the Earth. My parents did it and the results were pretty neat. It actually helped answer some questions regarding my family history. |
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Originally Posted by Mandu
It was a decent episode but I had a couple problems with it.
One: In the kino records after 10 years on the planet they had a small village built. They didn't bring any tools through the gate with them but this is still reasonable and possible. When I was a kid friends and I built a small log cabin with nothing more than a couple machetes. It wasn't exactly weatherproof but we were only around 12 years old so it's not only possible but likely that a group of adults could create a small town in 10 years. And that brings me to the actual problem. 30 years on the new planet and the descendents were still living in tent towns? Not a single permanent structure to be seen. And now the second problem. Throughout the different series we have seen gates hit by various weapons from Goa'uld to Wraith as our various heroes made last minute escapes. Those gates have survived though and the reason for that was perfectly logical. They are supposedly made of a superconducting material which would either dissipate or channel the energy away. Then there is the episode from season 1 where Eli mentioned that if the gate were damaged by a large enough explosion then it would detonate and take a large chunk out of the planet. So just two minor points that stuck out as incongruous to me. I actually consider that a good thing. Around the middle of season 1 I would have had so many problems with an episode that things like this would have been minor. It would have been just a couple pebbles in the avalanche. This is just like the way last weeks episode caused such a huge discussion over something relatively small in the overall scheme of things. It takes a really good show to make little things stand out. And SGU has become that really good show. I also thought of another minor point but I think they are going to save that for next weeks episode. If the ship's life support can't handle all those people then they should put them in stasis. After all they have already proved that the tubes work. But I'm guessing that next week it will come down to a dilemma of leaving the colony people behind on a frozen planet or else overload the life support systems. Then Eli will come up with the idea of using the stasis tubes. |
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Originally Posted by Cass_
The gate thing was the biggest bug bear for me too.
other than that it was a pretty solid show. |
I'm surprised no one else has picked up on the most obvious hole in the episode. I let it slide because I figured one of you guys would pounce on it.
1. The colony people have been using the local gates for a couple thousand years.
2. Gate travel acts like a homing beacon to the drones.
So why wasn't this colony wiped out by the drones a long time ago? The Destiny's FTL drive is much slower inside a galaxy so the colony is well within the range of the drones territory, and the range of the stargates is also limited. Remember in season one Eli, and Zoey, and Scott had to leapfrog from gate to gate to catch up with the Destiny.
All that gate use in that one area should have been a neon sign to the drones. Alien Technology here!! KILL US! KILL US!!
... Really?
Why is there a problem with the gate not working? We know there are several reasons that prohibit a gate from working... like for example being buried by lava... which has happened several times v.v
As far as the drones, it could be hypothesized that the drones are after specific signals and not so much just gate travel or civilization. The Destiny + Gate is likely what caught the drone's attention... not just gate travel.
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The gate ring on the planet was shattered when a drone shot it blowing a huge chunk out of it. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
... Really?
Why is there a problem with the gate not working? |
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| As far as the drones, it could be hypothesized that the drones are after specific signals and not so much just gate travel or civilization. The Destiny + Gate is likely what caught the drone's attention... not just gate travel. |
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This didn't bother me at all because the drones seemed to be local to one specific area. Just like the one group was inactive until the Destiny showed up others would be inactive until a nearby gate was activated. You can't see a streetlight that is 10 miles away. But if one comes on a mile away and then another a mile past that etc...|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm surprised no one else has picked up on the most obvious hole in the episode. I let it slide because I figured one of you guys would pounce on it.
1. The colony people have been using the local gates for a couple thousand years. 2. Gate travel acts like a homing beacon to the drones. So why wasn't this colony wiped out by the drones a long time ago? The Destiny's FTL drive is much slower inside a galaxy so the colony is well within the range of the drones territory, and the range of the stargates is also limited. Remember in season one Eli, and Zoey, and Scott had to leapfrog from gate to gate to catch up with the Destiny. All that gate use in that one area should have been a neon sign to the drones. Alien Technology here!! KILL US! KILL US!! |
Also I'm pretty sure that when they were setting up their new society Eli would have suggested that they only explore certain gate addresses and avoid those that lead back to the drone and kidnapper alien territories. The colony only started expanding in that direction when their planet was threatened with destruction and they went into emergency panic mode.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Let's see the crew of the second Destiny started their colony with the clothes on their backs. So what star charts and computers did Eli consult to figure out what directions the drone and kidnapper territory was in? In the first season when Eli was stranded he had to guess which directio to go and didn't realize they were going the wrong way until he arrived at a planet he recognized. Also I don't recall the kidnappers or drones ever sharing their homeworlds location.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
This didn't bother me at all because the drones seemed to be local to one specific area. Just like the one group was inactive until the Destiny showed up others would be inactive until a nearby gate was activated. You can't see a streetlight that is 10 miles away. But if one comes on a mile away and then another a mile past that etc...
Also I'm pretty sure that when they were setting up their new society Eli would have suggested that they only explore certain gate addresses and avoid those that lead back to the drone and kidnapper alien territories. The colony only started expanding in that direction when their planet was threatened with destruction and they went into emergency panic mode. |
And isn't it odd that if Eli or any of the other founders thought the drones were a threat they would have mentioned it in their Keno recordings?
Oh and since the colonists never heard of the drones how would they know what direction was safe when they started expanding/exploring?
Eli and the 'other' destiny crew wouldn't have reason to know of the drones being able to detect open Gates.
However, I do believe there could be a reason why the drones never found their civilization. We never saw the drones power up until Destiny got close enough to them. It's possible that... while powered down (and in stand-by mode?)... the drones have a limited proximity to which they can detect technology.
After all, they didn't know what the drones are and we know the drones were following the Destiny Crew. It's possible they followed Destiny into a region where there were no drones. Or there were drones, but they were powered down and their gates were far enough away to not be detected.
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This is why I said there is a hole in the storyline. They haven't provided enough information to explain things to us. (Sadly with the shows cancellation it's very possible we'll never find out.)|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
Eli and the 'other' destiny crew wouldn't have reason to know of the drones being able to detect open Gates.
However, I do believe there could be a reason why the drones never found their civilization. We never saw the drones power up until Destiny got close enough to them. It's possible that... while powered down (and in stand-by mode?)... the drones have a limited proximity to which they can detect technology. After all, they didn't know what the drones are and we know the drones were following the Destiny Crew. It's possible they followed Destiny into a region where there were no drones. Or there were drones, but they were powered down and their gates were far enough away to not be detected. |
We can sit here all day and think up theories and counterpoints that poke holes in those theories.
We don't even know who made the drones or how long ago they were created. The Ursini (the race that hijacked the Seed ship) weren't the original race the Berserker Drones were cretaed to fight against. They were only the most recent race that accidentally awakened them from stasis.
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ursini
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| The Ursini later proved not to be hostile, but still untrustworthy. Their race was engaged in a war with powerful unmanned drone ships of unknown origin, design and purpose, whom they accidently awakened from stasis. |
There could be simple explanations. The hole in the story is that we haven't been given them.
Oh, okay. Perhaps I've watched Lost too many times.... because I'm fine with having some things unexplained. lol.
Part of the problem may be that we know the shows been killed before we'll ever have the chance to have the really good stuff explained.
Lost was a hit so you were able to look forward to having things explained later.
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Must have happened in that half second I looked away that the entire frickin attack took place in. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The gate ring on the planet was shattered when a drone shot it blowing a huge chunk out of it.
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I'll have to wait for it to come up online and watch for a chunk of the stargate being blown out and it still working.
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Yeah, I remember the attack pretty well and it happens for a split second. Later, when Eli is by the gate trying to figure out how to send a signal to Destiny, you see a large chunk missing from the upper right hand section of the gate.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Must have happened in that half second I looked away that the entire frickin attack took place in.
I'll have to wait for it to come up online and watch for a chunk of the stargate being blown out and it still working. |
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I think this is a typo. We're talking about the gate not working after the drone attack blew a chunk out of the ring while the away team was evacuating the colonists. The gate immediately stopped working as soon as the integrity of the ring was broken.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Must have happened in that half second I looked away that the entire frickin attack took place in.
I'll have to wait for it to come up online and watch for a chunk of the stargate being blown out and it still working. |
By the end of the episode we think the stargate on the colony homeworld was either destroyed during a supervolcano eruption like the time in SG: Atlantis, or it was buried in the eruption by debris/lava.
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No because there is no indication that the gate wouldn't work... in fact the contrary. They said the reason they couldn't use the gate is due to drawing the drones and they never mention the gate not working or even retrying to get the gate to work.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think this is a typo. We're talking about the gate not working after the drone attack blew a chunk out of the ring while the away team was evacuating the colonists. The gate immediately stopped working as soon as the integrity of the ring was broken.
By the end of the episode we think the stargate on the colony homeworld was either destroyed during a supervolcano eruption like the time in SG: Atlantis, or it was buried in the eruption by debris/lava. |
Wow. You really weren't watching the show were you Durakken? The colonists said they had been trying to contact their home planet for 30 years but the gate wouldn't connect. That is why we know that the gate on their homeworld isn't working.
And if you are talking about the gate on the colony planet then the Destiny did try to connect with it but the Destiny's computer said that it was offline and non functional. And it remained non functional. They didn't get off world through the gate but because the Destiny sent the shuttles to pick them up.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Oh really? Then I suggest you watch this again.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
No because there is no indication that the gate wouldn't work... in fact the contrary. They said the reason they couldn't use the gate is due to drawing the drones and they never mention the gate not working or even retrying to get the gate to work.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0EvKWydtyc
At 2:40 the gate on the planet gets shot by a drone and a chunk is blown out.
At 2:56 Scott and the others look at the smoking ruins of the stargate where the wormhole used to be.
At 3:04 scene cuts to the Destiny where they are still under attack by the drones
Rush: We can't take much more of this.
Voice on Radio: Colonel we've lost the connection to the planet. Scott and his team still haven't come thru.
Colonel Young: Well, try to dial them. Find out what happened.
Voice on the radio: We tried already, the address won't connect.
Volker: The Gate is saying it's no longer operational.
Rush: Okay that's it we have to go.
Colonel Young: Make the Jump.
Next scene on the planet at 3:48
Eli: I hate to say this but we're stranded here.
Camile Wray: Well . . . even if we can't use the Gate Destiny can still come back for us. . . . What?
Scott: They were under attack as well. The ship was already damaged. Even if they got away they wouldn't be able to risk it.
Camile Wray: But the drones are gone.
Eli: But they don't know that. And without the Gate we have no way to tell them.
So as you can see you are mistaken in what you remember about what happened.
Also just a few seconds later at 4:45 Greer says
Greer: That still doesn't explain how they found us here.
Eli: The Gate . . . An active gate is a massive subspace event. They must have found a way to detect it from long range.
So the drones apparantly can detect Stargates being used at long range.
Thanks Forbin, I missed more than I thought I did. I was doing other things at the time and apparently missed those 2 minutes that were incredibly critical to the show that wasn't brought up ever again in the episode. Awesome ^.^
Then to revise my statement then... I'd say that if I remember correctly the older Stargates aren't made of Naquadria like the newer ones are thus don't yield the same resulting bang. I do believe it is said as much earlier in the series, but I can't remember where so I'm not sure.
Not a problem. I'm just surprised that I was lucky for two weeks in a row to find the necessary scenes online when they were needed to confirm what happened. Of course this probably means my luck is screwed for the next 5 years. Oh well.
Well this episode turned out better than I expected from the previews.
I'm okay with the people descending from the other Destiny crew.
I found the way the drones are tracking them to be believable.
I'll tolerate that they were able to establish a thriving colony with less than 80 founders because experts guess it can be done with as few as 15 and up to 5,000.
I figured right off that the main colony was destroyed either by natural disaster, internal war, or drone attack.
All in all I'm looking forward to next weeks episode.