I think I know what bothers me about Tip writing

To me, different pop up boxes give different impressions about who "should" be talking.

A pop-up when clicking on a person:
The person I clicked on is talking. I expect first person written from the contact's perspective. Example: "I [the contact] have been having problems with Rikti spacecraft for a long time now; they seem to show up everywhere I go! Can you [the player] help me out?"

A pop-up that happens randomly (e.g. on entering a mission):
I expect second person. "You [the player] see and hear strange things all around you." But it can also be third person omniscient, like a "narrator": "The Cabal have had this coming for a long time."

A pop-up connected to a tip:
I have no real context for this. My initial expectation though would be third person omniscient perspective that doesn't identify the speaker: "Word on the street is the Carnival of Shadows are up to something big." However, I can see how second person could be used too: "You [the player] have been hearing a lot of rumors about some kind of meeting between the Fifth Column and the Family."

I do bristle when I see motivations, back story, feelings, or thoughts foisted on a player character though. For example: "The sound of metal on metal echoing down the hallway reminds you of a movie you once saw." Even worse is something like: "You feel yourself growing angry..." The game should not hijack characters thoughts or feelings. The exception is when something has happened to the player outside of his or her control--getting hit with a mind blank spell, for example.

IMO the safest way to put thoughts in a characters head is through narrative style text that implies what the character might be thinking, but doesn't specifically attribute it to anyone: "So the Longbow think they're in the clear? They'll never know what hit them." This adds some of the same flavor but allows more latitude for interpretation.

I agree with what you're saying, pretty much. I had this challenge I faced when writing my morality A/E arc that attempts to come off as a conversation/narrative without impeding on the player/character's thoughts and feelings.

I originally had the final line as during "In Progress" as:
"This is going to be the toughest decision you've made all night."

But rewrote it on "Final" as:
"This could be the toughest challenge you faced all night."

The first would come off to me (a player) as a definite and you know what's challenging to me. The second, I feel is more like an outside source is trying to understand me and doesn't assume what's challenging to me.

Wordplay can be huge.

PEACE! (and happy gaming...)

And quickly reading through some of the posts, I find Forse almost said what I wanted to say to a tee.

I spent a lot of time criticizing every aspect of that arc, Ironik. And it's not a stand-alone arc, totally. The continuation (slated for July/August) coincides with the Global Character Contest (General Discussion) in which I would like to have guest appearances through the arc by actual player creations. If you do try it, gimme honest feedback... I haven't gotten complaints on it since it was "Looking for Feedback".

Don't blame me if your communication skills are lacking, man. Taken together, both posts painted you as a - <shudder> - product of community college.

Wow, now you're just being a total *** >_>

I have to side with Venture here, which surprises me. I've often been criticised of hating everything, and that's not the case, so I know where he's coming from. This is, essentially, the Yahtzee approach - show the bulk of the writing as the horrific mess that it is so that the few instances of true brilliance can shine by contrast.

The actually GOOD storylines come up rather very rarely, so there's very little context for me, at least, to talk about them. And I do talk about them in almost every context, but people somehow end up forgetting that I keep praising specific arcs and overfocus on the things I hate. I see the same happening to Venture and I find it rather distasteful. It's gotten to the point where people ignore the fact that he DOES make good points for the ad-hominem attack of "Well, you hate everything so your opinion doesn't matter." It does.

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More to point, the SupaFreak has exactly the right idea. Have the interactive narrative set the setting for the character by giving the facts, but DON'T have that dictate the character's reaction to it. Stick to railroading his actions (because we don't have the tools for branching paths), but avoid railroading his emotions and contemplations. It's not necessary, it's not engaging, and most of the time it's so wrong as to be insulting.

One of the best approaches to convincing a player character to make a decision which is fairly obviously not very optimal is to go with the "But even if it's a trap, it's not like you can't handle yourself, so there isn't all that much to lose." I've used almost that exact line in my own villainous story arc to send a villain on what is, to a large extent, a weird mission. To me, this approach is both an ego boost - you're so tough you can afford to not worry - and it does give a reason without assuming concept.

To my eyes, whenever narrative requires our characters to feel a certain way, it should attempt to CONVINCE them to feel that way, not TELL them that they feel that way. For instance, if I need to feel appalled at Agent Freymuth, don't tell me that I feel appalled at Agent Freymuth. Tell me how big of a jerkass he is, tell me of all the bad things he's done, tell me of all the reasons to hate him, but let ME decide how my character would react to all of this.

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I'm with Venture on this one - it's not impossible or even all that hard to write narrative which doesn't hijack a character. People have been doing it in the Architect since that came out. I did it in the Architect while it was still in Beta. It's not rocket science, it just take a little thought. Find the right words, find the right phrasing, plan ahead a little bit and it's well doable. "Second person narration" is the cheap, cumbersome easy way out of a difficult writing situation, but it is not the RIGHT way to solve problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

To me personally, I have no qualms with the current writing.

If a section of writing doesn't fit my tastes for my character then I just ignore it, work my way around it or just change it around in my mind so that it fits in with the theme.

Having "you" instead of "I" doesn't really have a huge effect but it does seem strange for me if I was reading it when I enter the mish like Jophiel said.

On another note, while many of your posts seem to flesh out many flaws ingame you do mention a few good points but I think cutting down on what you want to change would balance people's view of your opinions on the game in general.

*thumbs up to Samuel on this*

Since you and Venture are together on thinking the writing in Tips could be better, Sam, I'd like to pose a challenge to you both to actually rewrite a particularly heinous (in your opinions) example into something more tolerable. Perhaps some of us aren't exactly grasping what you're looking for. Not just one line, but the entire setup of the Tip.

I'm willing to bet that your rewrite won't have the same punch, but then generic things usually don't.

I'll bite...

Villain Morality - Highlighting what I'd change in yellow.

I'm too complacent (whether that's good or bad is subject to opinion) to be vocal about content text format. I also realize I wasn't asked to give my 2 cents, but since it's an open discussion and has been on my mind since I read the thread... thought I be non-complacent for a post.

Not here to ruffle any feathers or receive a wedgie... in case there's some conspiracy theory out there circulating about my motives. /e paranoidnow

Stating again in a friendly debating matter... it's really not a huge issue to me, just giving input or feedback here...

And to add to that before I head to sleep...