While I am all for fixing things that need to be fixed, and many things do need fixed, I still want/crave something new with each issue!
so while the programmers are working on bugs and optimizing code, what are the animators, powers designers, story writers, art team, and so on going to be doing?
Need to give other Devs somethings to do. And sometimes they are going to do things that need programmer attention.
I'm no expert, but I'm not sure this would work with the way development cycles and QA procedures work in the industry.
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Well, considering some of the things I suggest would be redoing old content (like Boomtown) I'm sure that takes care of the art team and story writers....powers designers and animators could do more Proliferation (which i guess would be new content...but that's being picky)|
Originally Posted by Shagster
so while the programmers are working on bugs and optimizing code, what are the animators, powers designers, story writers, art team, and so on going to be doing?
Need to give other Devs somethings to do. And sometimes they are going to do things that need programmer attention. I'm no expert, but I'm not sure this would work with the way development cycles and QA procedures work in the industry. |
I'm sure what I'm suggesting could still use the entire dev team.
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power and animators can create a new enemy group and/or add new enemies to old enemy groups
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Originally Posted by Foxy_Phoenix
Well, considering some of the things I suggest would be redoing old content (like Boomtown) I'm sure that takes care of the art team and story writers....powers designers and animators could do more Proliferation (which i guess would be new content...but that's being picky)
I'm sure what I'm suggesting could still use the entire dev team. |
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... that would be creating new content. Since there's none in boomtown, for instance, right now. |
Originally Posted by Foxy_Phoenix
Well, considering some of the things I suggest would be redoing old content (like Boomtown)
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Essentially you're talking about two different things. Reading the title, it comes off as "How about an issue just of bug fixes?" Which, while often asked for, would go over like a lead balloon. "An issue" wouldn't do it - unless you want to have nothing else for a good year. There are so many layers of code, so many things scabbed on and things that I'm sure the current devs would learn don't actually work the way they think (see Castle and Ghost Widow *actually* learning how Taunt worked) it'd essentially be a rewrite from the ground up.
If they did that, I'd prefer to see a COH 2, with things like mastermind AI planned for and written in from the beginning.
If you're asking, instead, about revamping old content, updating the starter zones, etc, I've pushed for Dark Astoria, Crey's Folly and the Shard to get content - they're wasted right now, and shouldn't be. Boomtown needs to be a process - six to nine issues, with a change every 2-3 as the rebuilding progresses. Graphics should be updated along with regular issue changes - Atlas/Talos, Galaxy/IP, Kings/Bricks pairings, for instance. Still a lot of work. And not something I think could fairly be lumped into "an" issue.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... that would be creating new content. Since there's none in boomtown, for instance, right now.
Essentially you're talking about two different things. Reading the title, it comes off as "How about an issue just of bug fixes?" Which, while often asked for, would go over like a lead balloon. "An issue" wouldn't do it - unless you want to have nothing else for a good year. There are so many layers of code, so many things scabbed on and things that I'm sure the current devs would learn don't actually work the way they think (see Castle and Ghost Widow *actually* learning how Taunt worked) it'd essentially be a rewrite from the ground up. If they did that, I'd prefer to see a COH 2, with things like mastermind AI planned for and written in from the beginning. If you're asking, instead, about revamping old content, updating the starter zones, etc, I've pushed for Dark Astoria, Crey's Folly and the Shard to get content - they're wasted right now, and shouldn't be. Boomtown needs to be a process - six to nine issues, with a change every 2-3 as the rebuilding progresses. Graphics should be updated along with regular issue changes - Atlas/Talos, Galaxy/IP, Kings/Bricks pairings, for instance. Still a lot of work. And not something I think could fairly be lumped into "an" issue. |
/this
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That's what I was going to say, as well.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... that would be creating new content. Since there's none in boomtown, for instance, right now.
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"One Issue Fixing Stuff" implies bug fixes, which will never end, especially considering one bug fix usually introduces a bug in something else. So one issue of bug fixes would be like one issue pent trying to shovel water out of a tank with a pitchfork.
On the flipside, one whole Issue of revamping old content? Hell yea! More content to older zones, more power customization, more power proliferation, redoing older missions to use newer instances, updating old low-res textures to higher-res one, especially in costumes? WANT!
The difference in texture size between old and new content is actually staggering once you look under the hood, and it's pretty obvious from just looking at the game, anyway. There's a lot of old junk that needs an HD touchup. It's what I'd have expected an expansion to do, but our expansion took a completely different path.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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One major problem with the whole "Just fix all the bugs" suggestions:
A lot of times, when a bug gets fixed, it inadvertantly creates a NEW bug.
So you'd spend time fixing the current bugs, then you'd have to fix the bugs those fixes created, then the bugs THOSE fixes created, and so on and so forth.
The most annoying part of that is, when you find a bug, the cause of it is usually something that is apparently completely unrelated to the effect. So you'd spend the better part of a month just FINDING the bug so you can fix it.
"Just fix all the bugs" is a good thought in theory, but it will probably end up being a much bigger proposal than anyone thinks it is.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Agree with the others in that an issue on fixing bugs would not be so great. If you mean revamping, that is nice, but again, like the others above, over time, and hopefully with story/content added.
The issue just came out, of course there will be bugs, especially considering the amount of content this issue gave us. I trust the devs to patch it out in the coming months.
Also, I'm not seeing any bugs discussed in-game or in the forums, save for a few minor-moderate ones relating to the recent issue.
Finally, Issues have always contained new content. To dedicate an issue to bug fixing would break that pattern and shake the foundations of the current game development methodology.
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Or they can create new animations for existing powers, or new powersets...|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
power and animators can create a new enemy group and/or add new enemies to old enemy groups
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And art devs can create new costumes too but...
FOR PLAYERS
I love the GR new factions and enemies, the IDF costumes, but what about US getting goodies? I want the enemies to be and look cool, but if I have to choose, I prefer keep fighting low res mobs like Freaks and have the cake so my characters can eat it too
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As is the case with any software development, I'm sure the devs have a list of bugs they already know about which may be listed as "low" on the priority list...that would already give them a very good starting place.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The most annoying part of that is, when you find a bug, the cause of it is usually something that is apparently completely unrelated to the effect. So you'd spend the better part of a month just FINDING the bug so you can fix it.
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My biggest complaint for the longest time has been fixing the client/server network lag that occurs when many players are fighting in any one zone, mission or map. In the past shipraids and hamiraids experienced tons of power lag and rooting lag where you are pressing the WASD keys but you character sits there rooted for a min (also due to power lag)
Now with all the incarnate buffs and powers those raids are even lagier than before. And now I'm seeing it in Lambda and Baf trials and those are only 16 - 24 players as opposed to 50 player shipraids and hamiraids.
If anything at all ever had to be fixed this is what I'd want to see fixed the most. It would certainly make large player gathering events such as these that much more enjoyable.
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The idea of a "fix only bugs and/or revamp old content" issue sounds great in theory and looks good on paper but in reality will never happen. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Foxy_Phoenix
So....what do you guys say? One Issue of nothing but fixes and revamps in exchange for no new content for one Issue.
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I gotta go with what Memphis_Bill said. If you are talking about revamping old content to match up with the new stuff, then I am all for that. Or just focusing on upgrading content that already exists. Though, zone rebuilds/upgrades (Boomtown, Crey's Folly, Faultline, etc.) should be done over a few issues, to keep with a realistic in-game time line.
But if we are talking about stripping down code, rewriting, etc... For starters, I do not believe they could do it in one issue's worth of content (that's not a lack of faith in the Devs, I just believe the job is HUGE). I would be all for seeing this done, even if they had to do it in bits and pieces over time.
When an MMORPG has been around for this long, has gone through as many staff rotations as it has gone through, and contains the enormous amount of content that we have access to in-game, there's really two ways to proceed: Either take a step back, look at your foundation (what you started with) and make any necessary fixes to bring it up to par with the newer stuff, or you close the book on it, acknowledging your job-well-done, and start something new and fresh based off what you have learned. Given that an MMORPG's survival relies on a constant player base, and creating an expanding world to keep the interest of said player base, I would prefer the former happen, even if it was an on-going process.
Paragon Studios has reached a big mile-stone by introducing an endgame into CoX, and we are at the very beginning of what looks to be an intricate endgame system that can lead multiple directions. Thus, the Devs have made a commitment to furthering this game, so let's not forget where the game started. It would go a long way, publicity wise, for Paragon Studios to be able to say, "Not only are we introducing a new direction to the game, but we are bringing the old stuff with us and upgrading." It advertises a development team that takes care of both their new and veteran players, and is aware of their entire creation, not just the latest add-on.
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If you're referring to what I think you're referring, this is actually server lag. That is to say, it has nothing to do with the speed or clarity of the connection between you and the server, and all to do with the processing speed of the server itself. Just like your machine will chug and turn into a slideshow if you overdo your graphics settings (or log into City of Villains), so the server will chug when it has to do too many computations, and everything will happen slower. If you're in a situation where every second, so many things happen that the server can't process them all, it slows down, and a "second" of server time becomes rather a bit longer.|
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
My biggest complaint for the longest time has been fixing the client/server network lag that occurs when many players are fighting in any one zone, mission or map. In the past shipraids and hamiraids experienced tons of power lag and rooting lag where you are pressing the WASD keys but you character sits there rooted for a min (also due to power lag)
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However, because player movement, and the entirety of the interface is run entirely locally, your client will try to take a guess as to when your powers should have recharged by timing their animations to your much faster seconds, so you end up with icons for recharged powers, but asking the server to fire them causes it to tell you they're still recharging on its end.
I'm not sure what causes this, in particular, but I believe having too many people in the same place fighting the same fight puts a large stress on a small part of the hardware, causing it to slow down. The solution, really, is down to hardware at that point.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I like the idea of fixing stuff that needs to be fixed, but the problem is that fixing it would be WAY more work than could be completed in a single issue. I would like to see them devoting at least half of each issue to fixing old content until it's all done though.
Before posting here on the message boards, I polled one of the main global channels on my server, and absolutely noone disagreed with me, so here we go....
With the fact that the devs have now released on us FOUR Incarnate Slots all at once....I think now is a very opportune time for them to do something that alot of people have been asking for anyway. And this poses my question to you, my fellow forumites:
If the devs spent ONE Issue working on nothing other than revamping old content and fixing stuff that they've been putting off fixing, what would you guys say? Let's also say that the price for doing this means ABSOLUTELY NO NEW CONTENT for one Issue. (Well, maybe some new costume pieces....gotta keep Jay in a job!)
To quote one of the channel members when I raised this idea to them... "The new content looks so great and is so much better it makes the rest of the game look like clown shoes in comparison". And unfortunately....I cannot disagree at all.
There's also the problem that this game is probably running on AT LEAST 3 generations of code...just simply optimizing the code of this game would go a long way.
So....what do you guys say? One Issue of nothing but fixes and revamps in exchange for no new content for one Issue.