So, taking a step back and looking at this game...
By
Arbiter_Shade,
Posted on: 2011-04-10 11:22 in Virtue
... I don't get it, where's the terrible pun?
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Quote:
.....
| Even if you don't get the drop you want, you can buy it, or save merits, or break the drop into shards/threads. There's no "grind until it drops" like in games like WoW. |
as Ood Sigma said....We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep. This song is ending. But the story never ends.
I can't help but feel that you've never played another MMO...or even WoW for that matter....
Not knocking CoX, even though I have major issues with some of the things that Devs have done and continue to do, cause in the end I do enjoy the game.
But just for a couple of point by points...
RP community: This game is really hit or miss, you get some REALLY elitist uptight people and some really chill laid back people. The problem is, I play red side, red side is has a lot of vacant VGs, RP is hard to come by. Blue side is great but I just find it boring really so I tend to stay red and just wish I wasn't so alone.
Balance: Yeeeeah...there are some real duds in the AT department, Stalkers and Kheldians, and there are some REALLY powerful sets and ATs out there. The thing is, this game is so easy it doesn't really matter what power sets or ATs you bring as long as you have support characters. Cause lets face it Defenders, Corrs, Trollers, and MMs are force multipliers and they make everything cake.
Devs Listening to the Players: Well...call me crazy but I have noticed this in every MMO I play, the thing I WILL say is that our Devs don't care if the players are so powerful that they run through all content without breaking a sweat. Most conflict between Devs and players comes from when Devs nerf a class or power or something to do with Joe Schmoes favorite character. As a PvPer I feel like our Dev team has terrible communication skills and flat out ignore the players, but it is all about perception. I think we have an alright Dev team, some Devs I like more than others, but I never understood the praise they get for something that is relatively small.
For example, your Alpha slot thing...Pushing it back isn't exactly listening to the players...it is pushing it back. Listening to players would have been to release enough content with GR to encompass all new additions to the game.
No relation to Arachnos!
Part Pack: Now the majority of players know how we, PvPers, have felt for years now. Don't want to be so "civil" now that you have been completly ignored, do you?
I wouldn't say "BAF never gets old." so much as say "you never know if the league your in absolutely sucks or will actually listen to the leader"
Aside from that, it is nice to know that CoH is probably one of the only RP friendly MMOs left in the world.
Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny
Quote:
I've played quite a few MMOs... Mostly Ragnarok Online, years ago. I've never played WoW, but I have many, many friends who do... And they've always been raid-this, grind-that, gotta-get-better-loot. Very few even read quest information, let alone the background game lore.|
Originally Posted by Arbiter_Shade
I can't help but feel that you've never played another MMO...or even WoW for that matter....
|
Which puts me at odds with them, because sometimes I just like to sit down and take in the game world. I like to imagine that it's more than just a daily chore, to log on, stab some random monsters and hope for a lucky drop. With CoH, I can do that. CoH gives me the sense that I'm a world filled with super heroes, not just a bunch of people level grinding or botting.
Quote:
| Balance: Yeeeeah...there are some real duds in the AT department, Stalkers and Kheldians, and there are some REALLY powerful sets and ATs out there. The thing is, this game is so easy it doesn't really matter what power sets or ATs you bring as long as you have support characters. Cause lets face it Defenders, Corrs, Trollers, and MMs are force multipliers and they make everything cake. |
Further more, Kheldians aren't 'duds'. They just require a deeper understanding of the game mechanics and, above all, focus. Kheldians can do anything in the game, but can't do everything. Want a durable blaster? Kheldians can do it. How about a Defender with self heals? Kheldians can do it. But it's right there in the description that Kheldians aren't outright specialists in one area. They work best when augmenting a team. But that doesn't mean they're weak. Heck, I've seen a pair of Kheldians that could duo x8 missions.
Quote:
| As a PvPer I feel like our Dev team has terrible communication skills and flat out ignore the players, but it is all about perception. |
Quote:
| For example, your Alpha slot thing...Pushing it back isn't exactly listening to the players...it is pushing it back. Listening to players would have been to release enough content with GR to encompass all new additions to the game. |
There was guaranteed to be someone complaining regardless, and some impatient brats are easier to listen to than a torrent of "PATCH NAO!" whiners.
Quote:
Well the reason I brought up your experience with WoW is because they have a merit system very similar to ours, I haven't played it since I played vanilla WoW way back at release but a lot of my family still does. A lot of MMOs follow trends and old style EQ raiding is falling away in favor of a merit or token based equipment purchasing route.|
Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf
I've played quite a few MMOs... Mostly Ragnarok Online, years ago. I've never played WoW, but I have many, many friends who do... And they've always been raid-this, grind-that, gotta-get-better-loot. Very few even read quest information, let alone the background game lore.
Which puts me at odds with them, because sometimes I just like to sit down and take in the game world. I like to imagine that it's more than just a daily chore, to log on, stab some random monsters and hope for a lucky drop. With CoH, I can do that. CoH gives me the sense that I'm a world filled with super heroes, not just a bunch of people level grinding or botting. And yet, Stalkers are entertaining to play and some of the most profoundly fun teams I've been on have consisted of seven scrappers and a tanker going up against high difficulty enemies. Further more, Kheldians aren't 'duds'. They just require a deeper understanding of the game mechanics and, above all, focus. Kheldians can do anything in the game, but can't do everything. Want a durable blaster? Kheldians can do it. How about a Defender with self heals? Kheldians can do it. But it's right there in the description that Kheldians aren't outright specialists in one area. They work best when augmenting a team. But that doesn't mean they're weak. Heck, I've seen a pair of Kheldians that could duo x8 missions. As a role player and fan of casual-friendly games, I think the devs are awesome. There's the possibility that they knew they didn't have enough time to produce polished Incarnate content in time for the Alpha slot. So when the decision came down to 'Alpha slot with no content', 'Alpha slot with sloppy content' and 'Late Alpha slot with polished content', they went with the last one. Which is the safe bet, honestly. There was guaranteed to be someone complaining regardless, and some impatient brats are easier to listen to than a torrent of "PATCH NAO!" whiners. |
As for the AT balance I am not saying that those ATs aren't fun, every AT can be fun, but when it comes to certain ATs there are major balance issues. Stalkers at this point really have an ill defined role. Burst damage in a game where AoE and sustained DPS are king is rather pointless, I enjoy my Stalkers and in fact right now I would say my main is my Elec/Nin but even as my favorite AT, yes they are my favorite AT, I just feel like I am playing a weak scrapper and that they need another looking at. Kheldians are the jack of all trades master of none which leaves them in a weird state of limbo as far as team make up goes. They can do a little bit of everything but if you need damage, you can get better damage, if you need a tank, you can get a better tank. Do you see where I am coming from? I don't think they just push Blaster level damage but it wouldn't hurt if they did a little more damage. Warshades are the exception in my opinion, they have enough unique tricks and powers that make them powerful in their own rights. Peacebringers are the ones who seem to have been a mashup of a bunch of old abilities with new skins.
As for the last two points I hope you can see that a lot of people have valid reasons to question the idea that the Devs in this game are our best friends. While you may not have been on the receiving end of some of their more interesting development "ideals" I bet you know people who have been. i13 really was made despite PvPers, not because of them. A lot of people feel the new raids are terrible ideas that are ruining the game for one reason or another. Hell even as far back as ED it has been the same way. For me it is really hard to see people praising the Devs as perfect when no one is perfect and least of all the Devs. They have done things to make this game better, but they have done things that have made the game worse, they aren't perfect and they aren't any better than any other MMOs Dev team I have played in nor or they any worse. They are Devs for a company where the bottom line is money, not player happiness.
No relation to Arachnos!
Part Pack: Now the majority of players know how we, PvPers, have felt for years now. Don't want to be so "civil" now that you have been completly ignored, do you?
Quote:
But that's part of the fun!|
Originally Posted by Pinny
I wouldn't say "BAF never gets old." so much as say "you never know if the league your in absolutely sucks or will actually listen to the leader"
|
While conceptually it's relatively easy to coordinate the objectives in these events, in practice - not so much. What I find amazing is how the league leader will ask everyone to have league chat visible because that's where instructions will be given and people just completely ignore that.
I was on a league and the leader had given the run down of everything that was happening and someone in team chat goes "So what are we doing?" The response was "Well, the leader just posted everything in league chat, scroll up." And the person goes "Oh I don't want to scroll up, just tell me what they said." Major facepalm moment.
[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
Personally I think the dev team has great communication skills.
I havent seen any other MMO that I've played where the GMs/Devs/whatever you want to call them actually pop in somewhere and say something, post on the boards, answer our questions, or hold little ustream things where we can actually TALK to them.
I've had War witch personally respond to one of my questions, which to me...feels like a great dev team when comparing to blizzard and sony and....other companies.
Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue
Quote:
Never seen them as 'ill defined'. They deal damage. They just trade the Scrapper's random crits for controlled extra damage. Though I main a Martial Arts Scrapper, so maybe I'm not the normal player, but there are other ATs that can handle AoE while the Stalker takes chunk after chunk of health out of more durable enemies.|
Originally Posted by Arbiter_Shade
Stalkers at this point really have an ill defined role. Burst damage in a game where AoE and sustained DPS are king is rather pointless
|
As for ill defined jobs, how about Mastermind and Brute? Brute has a taunt aura, but unlike the Tanker isn't always durable enough to take the punishment it brings. And I've seen dozens of MMs that could tank better a Stone Tanker.
Quote:
| i13 really was made despite PvPers, not because of them. |
Quote:
| A lot of people feel the new raids are terrible ideas that are ruining the game for one reason or another. Hell even as far back as ED it has been the same way. |
How does the new content ruin the game? Really? There's plenty of radio, AE and TF teams going around, so it can't be due to lack of available players for that content. Is it the time involved? You don't have to invest any time into it if you don't want to, you aren't worse off for it. Is it the matter of PvP balance? Well hard core PvPers would put the time into min-maxing and getting the new shiny abilities anyway.
Quote:
| They are Devs for a company where the bottom line is money, not player happiness. |
Seriously, I've been in some of the ********* MMOs ever devised. Games that weren't fun or interesting, they were just a dull grind for experience points and equipment, nothing more. The quests were boring, the characters were all the same, and some of them that had made promises never kept their word. When I asked about what was the point, where was the fun, I was unanimously told to go do the PvP content or shut up. That was it. The entire game boiled down to getting shiny new crap so you could totally over power other players. No backstory, no roleplaying, nothing but collecting bear ***** and grinding.
So pardon me for being a CoH fangirl and praising the devs when they're the only ones to provide me with a game worth my money.
I complain about ED weekly, course I used to have 90/70/70 resists and 52% def before powering up the toggles. Then there was that whole permanent unstoppable thing. Pre ED was awesome, course I could be wrong. 
. Then there was the old pvp when they wouldn't modify a Tanks stats, let's just treat PCs as regular PvE mobs. Mmmm
After over 7 years this is the only game Ilay at least an hour a week( doesn't sound like much, but you know RL doesn't allow much more) and the only MMO I've bother to max a character in. I think the devs are doing a fine job keeping it at least interesting. I wish the RP were better, more universal, but that's as much a function of me being less out there as it is anything else
Jack Wolfe Prototype Super Tank, over 25 million in damage taken in the service of others
My 360 hates me and writes about it
Jack's X-Box's Blog
I will love the light for it shows me the way, yet I will endure the darkness for it shows me the stars. ---Og Mandino---
Quote:
Clearly I should have my adorable little scrapper stalk you until you agree to let her be your sidekick. =D|
Originally Posted by DrJackWolfe
I wish the RP were better, more universal, but that's as much a function of me being less out there as it is anything else
|
There's something to be said about having a pint sized nerd that can punch doors off their hinges backing you up...
Yadda Yadda Yadda...
Like I said to a friend the other night, this is the only game I've played where I log in my favorite character and sometimes stop and think "Somebody actually made a game where I get to play this... no f'n way!"
I don't think that it would have lasted 7 years if it sucked
However I do have 3 complaints
1 bases could be so much better. Windows running water base raids
2 monetary system (?spelling) I include wentworths In this
3 anymOre than 3 50s to fill with shards is a grind
Times 5 slots is grind x 5.....
Other than that I'm ok
as Ood Sigma said....We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep. This song is ending. But the story never ends.
There are two things that will forever make this game stand out for me. One is how performance isn't tied to appearance; some days I log in just to play dress-up with my characters.
The other is how there is no (visible) botting at all. I remember I tried EVE briefly and saw all the AFK ratters and miners and hearing how, back then, the economy was basically dependent on mining bots to produce enough tritium.
I have my complaints (stalkers are subpar, Peacebringers are subpar, pistols are subpar, Merit/Incarnate component prices are too cheap - they need to be increased) but overall the game's pretty good.
There's new content and mechanics on a regular basis ever since Going Rogue. Trials aren't just big Task Forces, they're a whole different animal.
The so-called "grind" for Incarnate components is actually fun and exciting. BAFs never get old.
Even if you don't get the drop you want, you can buy it, or save merits, or break the drop into shards/threads. There's no "grind until it drops" like in games like WoW.
It has the best damn RP community anywhere. Seriously, go try to find another MMO where you find a concentration of RPers on one server who aren't an ignored or harassed minority.
It's balanced. Sure, no MMO is perfectly balanced, but there's no AT where you can look at it and pick out the single best powerset.
THE DEVS LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS! Players say, "The Alpha slot feels empty with no content." Devs reply, "Alright, we'll push it back an issue and write some content for it." Players say, "Having to take these three powers before 20 is boring, and we're always running out of endurance." Devs say, "Free fitness!" Players say, "Why do we have to run everywhere?" Devs say, "This wasn't an actual assignment, just something we tossed together in our spare time 'cause we love you guys, but have a Walk power!"
I've come, I've gone, I've returned, I've played other games. The only way I'll ever cancel my City account again is if RL hits me so hard I can't play MMOs at all.
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning