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I could make a similarly scathing/ad hominem remark, but have already come to the conclusion there would be no point and no merit in doing so. Thank you for revealing yourself so cleverly.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
The point you are missing, is that we are discussing completely different ATs, with completely different ability sets.
You also seem to have difficulty with reading comprehension, even of things that you yourself have quoted. I made it big so you would see it this time. |
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
This is just embarrassing to read, Redlynne. The whole thing, really.
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Your restraint inspires us all.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
I could make a similarly scathing/ad hominem remark, but have already come to the conclusion there would be no point and no merit in doing so. Thank you for revealing yourself so cleverly.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Warshades get all kinds of neat powers scrappers don't and if you're a spawn diving eclipse spamming monster from hell they even have a higher resistance cap (85 I believe) than scrappers (75). So no, they're not really comparable. If you want it to compare you have to agree to not use those powers. Just stand there in a spawn as a pure resist character or regen character, not doing anything, and see how fast you drop compared to a softcapped character who goes afk in a spawn.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
So resistance only, no defense, makes no difference to you. Good to know.
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All will die. The softcap will die slowest. The resistances will die second slowest. The regens will die first (and will do so even if you let them use their heals).
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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Those with layered damage mitigation will be the last to die, if at all. On my DM/Inv/Blaze I rarely die on these Trials, even with full-tilt Scrapperlock going on. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
All will die. The softcap will die slowest. The resistances will die second slowest. The regens will die first (and will do so even if you let them use their heals).
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Kinda off topic, but has anybody got MoLambda yet? MoBAF is fairly easy but ive heard the exact opposite on MoLambda.
I have yet to succeed on a Lambda, let alone think of mastering it.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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The problem with Lambda is that it requires everyone on your team to be able to follow instructions.|
Originally Posted by theheat
Kinda off topic, but has anybody got MoLambda yet? MoBAF is fairly easy but ive heard the exact opposite on MoLambda.
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This is not found in abundance in this game.
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You left an extraneous "in this game" on the end of that. |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
The problem with Lambda is that it requires everyone on your team to be able to follow instructions.
This is not found in abundance in this game. |
(I work in a safety-related field and I see lot of reports about the consequences of not following instructions.)
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I ran and failed a few lambdas today, my first ones. Instructions were pretty good, actually. People seemed to care that there were people who were new to it, and were careful to explain what was going on for the most part. I've also heard the exact opposite about them, so experiences obviously vary a lot.
Most I'm running on only have about 8 people, though. That can't help.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
The trial start cap should be raised on Lambda. Any successful ones I've run have had 13+ people, not 8. It makes a big difference in the sabotage section in particular to have two teams of 6+ raiding instead of two teams of four - mostly because six people absorbing attacks from the 'ignored' mobs guarding the targets is a lot healthier than 3 or 4..
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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On the first day of release, I went on a couple of doomed Lambda trials using the Queue. Those were discouraging. Even when we seemed to be up to the challenge, there would inevitably be a few Metabolic Acids that went missing, and Marauder would end up with an almost infinitely self-buffing horde of IDF around him. Temp power distribution is a bit counter-intuitive. (You tell people to have a slot open on their power bars, and either they don't listen, or they understandably assume that clearing a spot on their fourth or fifth bar will do, but temp powers only seem to auto-equip when your first three displayed bars have a slot open.)|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
You guys are either the best players ever or I'm the worst ever - my PUGs fail more often than not.
(Or maybe you're calling preset teams PUGs... Which would be technically right I guess, but 16-24 players with specific ATs and powersets is a far cry from 8-12 melee heavy teams with 0-2 buff/debuff characters, most without a single incarnate power and some without the basic level shift or the alpha slot). |
By the second day, we (and by "we," I mean, loosely, the Triumph server) seemed to be over it for whatever reason. Ever since, every run of either Trial that I've been on has been a near joke. As time passes and people get better equipped with the Incarnate hotness, the trials only get easier.
For what it's worth, I haven't seen anyone recruiting for this-or-that AT or build, but we haven't been using the Queue system either. Basically all of the recruiting on Triumph seems to be in Pocket D, and it's on a first-come, first-served basis. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't know (or know of) half of the people who end up in each League, but that's just a natural consequence of Triumph's relatively low population.
My Leagues haven't exactly been PuGs, but they haven't been pre-set teams either. More like haphazard collections of the usual suspects.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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The powerset elitism is probably a Freedom thing. Regardless, I see a wide difference between preset max players Lambda/BAFs and queue teams - I mean, queues often end up with the minimum at the hours I play with, so that's half the players for the same tasks.
That said, I'm releveling my scrapper as a brute (really banging my head against the hp/res caps with invul on those trials) so I haven't PuGed since two days now. Here's hoping even queue teams will steamroll these things within a week - I don't like leading/waiting/asking around for an invite, and was looking forward to the queue system. Both trials seem pretty easy as is, once +3 it seems like 2-3 competent players on the team should be enough to win either trial, provided the rest of the league doesn't act completely silly.
As people get their t3 lore and destiny slots filled for the extra two level shifts the trials become easier and easier. Case in point would be friday morning, when I decided I was going to finish my t4's come hell or high water. Found a league forming in the virtue global chat channels full of people I'd never met or heard of, and we ran the BAF trial over, and over, and over. The first few runs were not exactly smooth, but we got it done - had a few escapes during the prisoner phase but the rest was not too hard. After about 10 runs though, the league really just gelled and we started destroying it; 20 minutes per run was the average. No prisoners made it past their starting doors, we got the Master of BAF meta badge quite easily, I made 6 new global friends, got 5 t4's crafted (made an extra lore set for teaming), and ended up running the trial 28 times in about 11 hours.
I spent way too long on the computer that day, but none of us wanted to quit because we knew we'd never find another league that was as laid back and successful as this one. Again, not a premade per say, just a bunch of people who didn't know each other at all but were capable of thinking for themselves and figuring out the best way to run the trial without having one person "lead" aka screaming at the league threatening to kick them if they didn't do exactly what he said.
Many times in the last 6 or 7 hours we queued up with 22 people and zoned in picking up a couple people from the LFG queue who immediately said "I've never completed this successfully - it's so hard." They wanted to be assigned to an AV, or wanted me to assign a team to kill adds only - and 22 people told them to relax, kill things, and don't sequester the raid. That's about all there is to it. All these raids who put team 1 on x av, team 2 on y av, and team 3 on adds are silly. Just group them up, kill the AV's at the same time, and anytime adds are nearby, tab over and use judgement. With 24 people randomly popping aoe destiny buffs, it's rare during the last fight that I wasn't either resist capped, regen capped (12.5 percent per second, hadn't ever seen that before o.O) or had defense values below 150 percent so adds weren't really a threat to anyone. Threads are gained pretty quickly when you get 6 per trial. The devs did a great job with this content and I'm looking forwards to the next installment.
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Successful trials ARE still heavily dependent on players (at least on Freedom). Not so much their builds, but their ability to play the game and follow the lead of others. I still hate doing PUG lambdas because we always end up missing 2-3 acids and grenades. We'll sit by the gate and tell people, CHECK YOUR TEMP POWERS. Nothing. Of course, only about 10 of the 15-16 people will actually respond to anything said at all. Which means we have to spend a few minutes killing the containments and caches. And inevitably, we still end up missing grenades and acids. I have interface unlocked, and once Destiny is unlocked I will not do another lambda. In my experience, people tend to do better with BAF as it really is just about killing things in the right place. Asking people to look at their temp powers is a bit much it seems.|
Originally Posted by Igor_The_Mad
As people get their t3 lore and destiny slots filled for the extra two level shifts the trials become easier and easier. Case in point would be friday morning, when I decided I was going to finish my t4's come hell or high water. Found a league forming in the virtue global chat channels full of people I'd never met or heard of, and we ran the BAF trial over, and over, and over. The first few runs were not exactly smooth, but we got it done - had a few escapes during the prisoner phase but the rest was not too hard. After about 10 runs though, the league really just gelled and we started destroying it; 20 minutes per run was the average. No prisoners made it past their starting doors, we got the Master of BAF meta badge quite easily, I made 6 new global friends, got 5 t4's crafted (made an extra lore set for teaming), and ended up running the trial 28 times in about 11 hours.
I spent way too long on the computer that day, but none of us wanted to quit because we knew we'd never find another league that was as laid back and successful as this one. Again, not a premade per say, just a bunch of people who didn't know each other at all but were capable of thinking for themselves and figuring out the best way to run the trial without having one person "lead" aka screaming at the league threatening to kick them if they didn't do exactly what he said. Many times in the last 6 or 7 hours we queued up with 22 people and zoned in picking up a couple people from the LFG queue who immediately said "I've never completed this successfully - it's so hard." They wanted to be assigned to an AV, or wanted me to assign a team to kill adds only - and 22 people told them to relax, kill things, and don't sequester the raid. That's about all there is to it. All these raids who put team 1 on x av, team 2 on y av, and team 3 on adds are silly. Just group them up, kill the AV's at the same time, and anytime adds are nearby, tab over and use judgement. With 24 people randomly popping aoe destiny buffs, it's rare during the last fight that I wasn't either resist capped, regen capped (12.5 percent per second, hadn't ever seen that before o.O) or had defense values below 150 percent so adds weren't really a threat to anyone. Threads are gained pretty quickly when you get 6 per trial. The devs did a great job with this content and I'm looking forwards to the next installment. |
And, at least on Freedom, not assigning teams to locations would be suicide in a PUG. I've only been in two failed BAFs. The first was like the one you were describing. The reinforcements quickly destroyed us. The second was a master attempt. That was laughable.
Are the other servers better? I'm getting the feeling that a lot of the 50s on Freedom are either being played by "gold farmers" or never played the 1-49 game before.
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So far I haven't seen too much powerset elitism on freedom - although one person was looking for "T3 Slotted Destiny Scrappers ONLY" - which was a bit ridiculous IMO.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
The powerset elitism is probably a Freedom thing. Regardless, I see a wide difference between preset max players Lambda/BAFs and queue teams - I mean, queues often end up with the minimum at the hours I play with, so that's half the players for the same tasks.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
That said, I'm releveling my scrapper as a brute (really banging my head against the hp/res caps with invul on those trials) so I haven't PuGed since two days now.
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Brutes can get chewed up as easily as Scrappers for the most part with the kind of incoming damage on these trials right now - these trials were really designed to make Tankers higher base numbers & higher HP caps shine (although I realize that it will make a significant difference on Invuln).
Also, be prepared to spend most of any trial at 50% Fury or under due to all of the running around, sequestering, etc. Waiting for/Chasing the mindwashed prisoners is extremely detrimental to having any kind of Fury - so is being put on a 9CU spawn camp team.
I'm trying really hard not to be frustrated with it as its all new, and most players pretty much only know blueside - but generally puck up raid teams want Scrappers for Damage and Tankers for Tanking. They take brutes, but there is no clear role for them in most people's minds.
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Originally Posted by Oblivion21
Successful trials ARE still heavily dependent on players (at least on Freedom). Not so much their builds, but their ability to play the game and follow the lead of others. I still hate doing PUG lambdas because we always end up missing 2-3 acids and grenades. We'll sit by the gate and tell people, CHECK YOUR TEMP POWERS. Nothing. Of course, only about 10 of the 15-16 people will actually respond to anything said at all.
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One player on a PUG-Lambda I went on yesterday couldn't keep up with the team because he refused to open his map - because he was playing on an old laptop...
Of course, he ended up with acid grenades that he couldn't find for ages and then when he found them he didn't know what to use them on.
Lambda really can be crushing, you can have 15 people who all know the drill and one moron can literally cause total or near failure.
I spent some time on freedom a while back, but there wasn't a whole lot going on outside of the atlas park AE building. If people don't really spend a lot of time playing their AT it's very difficult to judge when you're on the knife edge of surviving and when it's time to hit inspirations and/or run away. Obviously this is a blanket statement and doesn't apply to all (or possibly even most) of the Freedom players but I'm pretty happy with the overall level of competence I've seen from players on Virtue.
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I've played a SS/Fire in the iTrials and found her much more survivable than any of my scrappers. I would argue caps matter more than base values for players willing to plan and play around inspirations.| I wouldn't get too carried away with the Brute numbers. |
IOed out Brute Invul gets to 3000hp with DP and 90% res with Unstop or sturdies. That's 25% more HP than the scrapper and 2.5 times as much reduction in damage. I've done that song and dance between scrapper and brute for DB/inv for a while now, and I've already played the combo at 50 on a brute ; there just wasn't enough reason to justify the DPS loss before IMHO. Now there is, for me that is. Not claiming I speak for anyone else.
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Fair enough, I go through the same song and dance myself with my own builds.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I've played a SS/Fire in the iTrials and found her much more survivable than any of my scrappers. I would argue caps matter more than base values for players willing to plan and play around inspirations.
IOed out Brute Invul gets to 3000hp with DP and 90% res with Unstop or sturdies. That's 25% more HP than the scrapper and 2.5 times as much reduction in damage. I've done that song and dance between scrapper and brute for DB/inv for a while now, and I've already played the combo at 50 on a brute ; there just wasn't enough reason to justify the DPS loss before IMHO. Now there is, for me that is. Not claiming I speak for anyone else. |
I really do enjoy holding aggro for teams, and I'm willing to accept the lower Brute damage for it.
I play around with inspirations and time things like T9s coupled with the Demonic Accolade and soon I'll be able to juggle Barrier or Ageless as well. I think most players, would be better off with a Scrapper or Tanker - but obviously you (and I) aren't "most players".
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Others have said it, but I think the current caps will probably be fine when everyone is +3 and knows the drill.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
The trial start cap should be raised on Lambda. Any successful ones I've run have had 13+ people, not 8. It makes a big difference in the sabotage section in particular to have two teams of 6+ raiding instead of two teams of four - mostly because six people absorbing attacks from the 'ignored' mobs guarding the targets is a lot healthier than 3 or 4..
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On my last Lambda run, the leader said "stick together" at the acid/grenade gathering phase, but didn't designate who to follow. So... there were multiple leaders, and I quickly found myself on a group of only three, then two as that group's leader died, then one as the remaining Tanker and I got separated by a door crowded with large numbers of enemies and he zoomed off elsewhere while I tried to lose some aggro. I ended up soloing two of the molecular acid tubes. I did use some inspirations, and it was tough, but it was doable. That's on a +1 character (IO'd all to hell, but still). Once we're all +3 and know what we're doing, I expect it to be a cakewalk.
Once it's a cakewalk, I don't want to sit in queue an extra ten minutes just because we're having trouble right now at the beginning.
What I wasn't happy with was the queues on Victory, though. I took up residence there precisely because it's relatively abandoned. That hurts for these trials. Now, I don't see complaints on the Victory forum (on an admittedly quick glance), so maybe it's just me. But here's my experience so far there during prime time playing hours:
wait in queue 10 minutes for BAFSo far, no successes on any pick up group on any server (but that's probably only 5-10 trials total). Some, however, showed promise, and instruction has generally been good, so I'm hopeful. Also sounds like I might be just getting unlucky.
fail on the escapees
wait in queue 30 minutes for BAF before giving up for the night
wait in queue 30 minutes for any before giving up for a while
wait in queue 30 minutes for any and finally getting on a BAF
fail on Siege
wait in queue for an hour for any before giving up on Victory completely
transfer Alexei to Virtue to have any hope of advancement (losing my name in the process, so now I'm Olof)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
You should've asked me, we would've invited you! :O
You didn't have to leave :[
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
Aside from one botched MoBAF run, i haven't failed any since launch, and that was just due to half a team not listening to leader. Say what you will about Freedom as a whole, but these are both easy now over here, and quick to get on one too.
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They do? My MA/Regen has no real problems (except when I just came back 6 months ago and my timing was completely off). The only defense she has is MoG and a 2.5% to all positional bonus from the full set of Gaussian's in FA (which was put in for the regen bonus, the need for end reduction, and the proc). And she's not even built for recharge, but for massive amounts of passive regen. Ended up tanking Rommie as the only non-squishy on the team. Died a few times, but no more than usual, and usually only when I jumped headfirst into a mob expecting something to recharge faster than it did.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Have you ever noticed that resistance and regen need to build for defense if they want survivability?
I dare you to take a resistance or regen based scrapper - build for zero defense (that includes no katana/BS) and then take it on the ITF and see how much fun that is. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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I just want to be clear, are you saying that you solo'd Romulus and that there were no +DEF buffs or -To Hit Debuffs present on your team?|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
They do? My MA/Regen has no real problems (except when I just came back 6 months ago and my timing was completely off). The only defense she has is MoG and a 2.5% to all positional bonus from the full set of Gaussian's in FA (which was put in for the regen bonus, the need for end reduction, and the proc). And she's not even built for recharge, but for massive amounts of passive regen. Ended up tanking Rommie as the only non-squishy on the team. Died a few times, but no more than usual, and usually only when I jumped headfirst into a mob expecting something to recharge faster than it did.
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Also, so you are aware - having a team of 7 buffers/debuffers doesn't suddenly mean your personal character is the most amazing ever and that building for Defense for survivability is a myth.
It means 7 people with buffs and debuffs are totally amazing when stacking their abilities.
People have been taking advantage of that power on speed LRSF runs for ages, the Brute is only there to do two main things
1) Not die.
2) Hold AVs attention while they get killed.
If they happen to also have a solid ST attack chain, bonus cookies for the Brute.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Died a few times, but no more than usual, and usually only when I jumped headfirst into a mob expecting something to recharge faster than it did.
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Build for softcapped defense, you will not die unless you do something really stupid or simply get really unlucky.
As a side note, building for passive regen is the least beneficial thing you can do build for on a regen character.
I'll do this with my SR tonight. I think there will be moments where I would be better to back off, wait my time and engage again and so it'll be like going back to the days before defense got changed. Knowing ones limits and the enemies powers was often key to survival. Be nice to have to think with my claws/sr once again.
Update: On the BAF I have to watch that I use Practised Brawler and given the choice between Nightstar or Siege, fight Nightstar. Thats goin on nothing but my combat tab.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.