Has anyone discussed.....
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-03-01 16:39 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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It's not as if critics don't feel pressure to go with the flow or can be generally wrong, however, so again it's best to just see it for yourself.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
This is why I pay more attention to RottenTomaotes.com as a review site. It doesn't just represent the opinions of one reviewer or a few reviewers. It brings together the opinions of 100s of reviewers from around the world to get a better overall feel for a movie. Sure if just one critic says X, Y or Z about a movie you can only trust that so far. But if you have dozens of reviewers all saying the same things then, yeah, that seems a little more credible to me.
Sadly in this particular case there are many dozens of reviewers who panning this movie. As I said before I'll probably see it anyway, but at least now my expectations are appropriately set very low for it.  P.S. Its score has dropped from 23% to 21% in just the last few hours. |
- CaptainFoamerang
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i dunno, i generally find that aggregate review sites tend to draw in so many sources that groupthink has a very powerful sway. in gaming gamerankings has repeatedly given outsized reviews to games that are cookie cutter sequels or mild variations of existing titles because of who the publisher was or because specific genres are popular witht he general audience, while giving lower scores to games that actually interest me. so aggregate sites seem to be good if you want to watch titanic or transparent oscar bait, but not if your tastes are a bit off the mainstream(or, in my case, uniformly weird and confusing) thats why i do look at specific critics, because they have understood on a basic level why a film appealed to me, not just that it did. again, this is usually, bob and i have had significant partings of the ways as of late. but his explanation of why he liked the movie resonated with me.
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There's also audience reviews, and the majority for Sucker Punch seem to agree with the critics.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
It's not as if critics don't feel pressure to go with the flow or can be generally wrong, however, so again it's best to just see it for yourself.
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Goodbye, I guess.
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Er, there's a 55% difference between the critic and audience reviews on RottenTomatoes at the moment, in favor of the movie. o.O
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Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
There's also audience reviews, and the majority for Sucker Punch seem to agree with the critics.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
It's not as if critics don't feel pressure to go with the flow or can be generally wrong, however, so again it's best to just see it for yourself.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
i dunno, i generally find that aggregate review sites tend to draw in so many sources that groupthink has a very powerful sway. in gaming gamerankings has repeatedly given outsized reviews to games that are cookie cutter sequels or mild variations of existing titles because of who the publisher was or because specific genres are popular witht he general audience, while giving lower scores to games that actually interest me. so aggregate sites seem to be good if you want to watch titanic or transparent oscar bait, but not if your tastes are a bit off the mainstream(or, in my case, uniformly weird and confusing) thats why i do look at specific critics, because they have understood on a basic level why a film appealed to me, not just that it did. again, this is usually, bob and i have had significant partings of the ways as of late. but his explanation of why he liked the movie resonated with me.
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I've found pretty much whenever a movie is rated around "21%" is actually is a roughly 21% "good" movie.
If that's a case of "going with the flow" or "group-think" then I willing to accept it as such.
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And somehow the Transformer movies managed to make a bunch of money too. Just saying. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Er, there's a 55% difference between the critic and audience reviews on RottenTomatoes at the moment, in favor of the movie. o.O
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Sucker Punch may end up making a ton of money, but that still might not make it a good movie.
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What rian and I were alluding to is how the critics seem to be inconsistent about how willing they are to forgive movies that are seemingly all eye-candy (as well as other types of films) depending on who is involved. If Zack Snyder or the Wachowskis make a movie like that, it's more likely to get written off than if Spielberg does it. There's a peer pressure or expectation element to it.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
In the few years I've looked at RottenTomates the ratings the site gives actually tracks pretty well with reality.
I've found pretty much whenever a movie is rated around "21%" is actually is a roughly 21% "good" movie. If that's a case of "going with the flow" or "group-think" then I willing to accept it as such. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
I didn't say anything about money. I was just pointing out that he was wrong about how the audience reviews were lining up with those of the critics.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
And somehow the Transformer movies managed to make a bunch of money too. Just saying.
Sucker Punch may end up making a ton of money, but that still might not make it a good movie. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
The general masses aren't the best at determining what's good. It's like going on Amazon and seeing something getting 4.5 stars and thinking, "Wow, that must be awesome," when in reality it isn't near the top of it's kind. Still, a low 20% from RT. 36 from Metacritic which is even more accurate since it takes the average score versus thumbs up, or down. The review in my local paper, although it's a national guy, called it Airbender with bustiers. That's just a brutal comparison to have. Is it going to make money this weekend? It's pretty much a virtual lock to be number one.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Er, there's a 55% difference between the critic and audience reviews on RottenTomatoes at the moment, in favor of the movie. o.O
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EDIT: My point is, if the masses put it at a C grade move, then it's likely that it's just not that good.
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Again, I wasn't saying anything about the fact that, according to the site we've been using in this thread as a reference for reception of the film, the higher audience rating means it's good or that it's going to make money. I was just saying it's a fact that, according to the site we've been using in this thread a reference for reception of the film, the audience rating is higher, which contradict's someone's earlier statement about how the audiences have enjoyed it just as little as the critics have.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
The general masses aren't the best at determining what's good. It's like going on Amazon and seeing something getting 4.5 stars and thinking, "Wow, that must be awesome," when in reality it isn't near the top of it's kind. Still, a low 20% from RT. 36 from Metacritic which is even more accurate since it takes the average score versus thumbs up, or down. The review in my local paper, although it's a national guy, called it Airbender with bustiers. That's just a brutal comparison to have. Is it going to make money this weekend? It's pretty much a virtual lock to be number one.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Going to see it in like 30mins! \o/
Bad reviews be damned! If it entertains me, I'll be happy! 
I don't trust critics. Even the one who I trust! has been wrong before (imo of course).
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Not sure where they got their numbers for the masses having the same opinion either. I generally give about a 20% buffer between critics and the masses. Suckerpunch is at 76% with the masses. Ok. Big Momma's House I and II got 68% and 69% respectively. Yeah, not putting much faith in that 76%. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Again, I wasn't saying anything about the fact that, according to the site we've been using in this thread as a reference for reception of the film, the higher audience rating means it's good or that it's going to make money. I was just saying it's a fact that, according to the site we've been using in this thread a reference for reception of the film, the audience rating is higher, which contradict's someone's earlier statement about how the audiences have enjoyed it just as little as the critics have.
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Well as of this post the critic rating for Sucker Punch is down to 20%. We just got back from a matinee of this movie and let's just say that rating is unfortunately right about on target. As I said in an earlier post RottenTomatoes.com has been pretty close to the mark in the last few years and this movie is no exception to that.
I won't provide any spoilers for those who still want to see this. But I'll comfortably say that I'm glad we didn't pay more than matinee prices for it and if I never see this movie again I won't be missing out on any long term "entertainment" value. Needless to say we won't be bothering to buy the Blu-ray for this one.
In a nutshell there's only about 20 minutes worth of "cool" action scenes and even those weren't particularly earth-shatteringly impressive. The rest of it was just a mess of storytelling and half-baked themes that never really gelled into anything worth caring about. Maybe the best way to describe it was that it was like watching a 109 minute trailer for a movie that's never actually going to exist. The pacing/editing was so quick and disjointed that it was as if it was too busy trying to hype itself up as something cool watch instead of actually -being- something cool to watch.
I guess on some level I got some fleeting entertainment from it. But even as someone who generally loves anime/manga/comics of all kinds this movie is going to be quickly forgotten as a footnote to something that could have been so much better.
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I posted in the Sucker Punch thread. So won't put all that back in here.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Not sure where they got their numbers for the masses having the same opinion either. I generally give about a 20% buffer between critics and the masses. Suckerpunch is at 76% with the masses. Ok. Big Momma's House I and II got 68% and 69% respectively. Yeah, not putting much faith in that 76%.
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However, I will say, the professional critics, just didn't get the movie imo. I read quite a few of the reviews, and reading them, I can't help but think they really didn't watch the movie or just didn't get the point.
They went in for the awesome fight visuals you see in the trailers and then don't pay attention to the rest of the movie.
It wasn't a complicated movie. The things they said were missing, weren't missing, they weren't the point of the movie.
To point to a couple review points I saw, the point of the movie wasn't to see Baby Doll do this OMG jaw droppingsexy dance when in her imaginary world. That's why you just see her basically standing there BEFORE you see what the real dance is. It's the imaginary world within the imaginary world where she takes herself during that dance which is the OMG AWESOME visual for the audience.
This isn't Chicago. We're not getting Broadway.
This is Sucker Punch and you're getting stylized comic book/anime action in place of the dancing!
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I can't help but disagree.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Well as of this post the critic rating for Sucker Punch is down to 20%. We just got back from a matinee of this movie and let's just say that rating is unfortunately right about on target. As I said in an earlier post RottenTomatoes.com has been pretty close to the mark in the last few years and this movie is no exception to that.
I won't provide any spoilers for those who still want to see this. But I'll comfortably say that I'm glad we didn't pay more than matinee prices for it and if I never see this movie again I won't be missing out on any long term "entertainment" value. Needless to say we won't be bothering to buy the Blu-ray for this one. In a nutshell there's only about 20 minutes worth of "cool" action scenes and even those weren't particularly earth-shatteringly impressive. The rest of it was just a mess of storytelling and half-baked themes that never really gelled into anything worth caring about. Maybe the best way to describe it was that it was like watching a 109 minute trailer for a movie that's never actually going to exist. The pacing/editing was so quick and disjointed that it was as if it was too busy trying to hype itself up as something cool watch instead of actually -being- something cool to watch. I guess on some level I got some fleeting entertainment from it. But even as someone who generally loves anime/manga/comics of all kinds this movie is going to be quickly forgotten as a footnote to something that could have been so much better. |
And only 20 minutes of cool action scenes? It felt like there was more. Maybe it's because the movie did move so fast, which isn't a bad thing imo.
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It's fine to disagree. I actually have no doubt there will be lots of people who will love it regardless.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I can't help but disagree.
And only 20 minutes of cool action scenes? It felt like there was more. Maybe it's because the movie did move so fast, which isn't a bad thing imo. |
I just simply feel this movie was an obvious "excuse" to showcase about 20 minutes worth of "cute anime ninja girl action". There's absolutely nothing wrong with a few minutes of "cute anime ninja girl action" in and of itself. I just think the attempt to package that into a feature-length movie was an unfortunate failure. *shrugs*
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So I found a weird video review by theoretically 'real' critics (members of the LA Film Critic Association) on blip.tv .... They basically spent half of their video's length insulting the "15 year old video game playing boys," who are obviously the prime demographic for Sucker Punch. I wasn't even planning on seeing the film anytime soon and I think I came away feeling insulted.
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The main characters of the movie are kick-*** heroes dressed in tight/revealing outfits, when it enters the imaginary world of the main character.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
So I found a weird video review by theoretically 'real' critics (members of the LA Film Critic Association) on blip.tv .... They basically spent half of their video's length insulting the "15 year old video game playing boys," who are obviously the prime demographic for Sucker Punch. I wasn't even planning on seeing the film anytime soon and I think I came away feeling insulted.
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So of course they bash it, and the ones they think it's aimed at. Critics are film snobs who don't tend to like anything they don't consider "high thinking" or "I can't hate this movie, because specific demographics will hate me for hating it"
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Eh, I wouldn't waste any time insulting people who like to play video games who might be the target demo for this movie. But I will say the main action scenes did come off pretty much like I was looking over someone else's shoulder while -they- were playing a video game. Maybe in a few more years video games will look exactly like this movie did and I'll have more fun "playing" this movie than I did "watching" it. |
Originally Posted by Oliin
So I found a weird video review by theoretically 'real' critics (members of the LA Film Critic Association) on blip.tv .... They basically spent half of their video's length insulting the "15 year old video game playing boys," who are obviously the prime demographic for Sucker Punch. I wasn't even planning on seeing the film anytime soon and I think I came away feeling insulted.
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I more bring up the review (and didn't post the link) due to the sheer level of anger the two reviewers had towards Sucker Punch and its 'intended audience' than anything else. It was a long-running rant that had a couple curse words involved and eventually regressed into, "Dang kids, get off mah lawn," territory.
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Most of the reviewers that I have ever found to have decent sense are basically saying it looks good, which leaves you hoping for more that isn't there. The better reviewers out there usually can be fair for what they're seeing, and they don't all only want a brooding Oscar nominee all the time.
Just to be fair to all sides with this one.
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I'm starting to think the critics need everything spelled out for them.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I more bring up the review (and didn't post the link) due to the sheer level of anger the two reviewers had towards Sucker Punch and its 'intended audience' than anything else. It was a long-running rant that had a couple curse words involved and eventually regressed into, "Dang kids, get off mah lawn," territory.
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The movie had three parts to it...
The real world. In which you only see the beginning and end to.
The imaginary world. The main character's escape into her imagination which stylizes what she's going through in her real life. You're basically seeing things through the eyes of a distraught/delussional/broken girl here.
And the imaginary world within the imaginary world. Escaping to the first imaginary world wasn't enough, for her to go through with everything she was doing in RL, it had to seem even more so.
Instead of watching a distraught girl trying to break out of a mental hospital and what she really went through to do it. You're instead given two hours of how the distraught girl see's it basically happening in her head.
And by distraught, I mean, she's broken! She's lost it! Mother dead. Sister dead. Step father who abused her and her sister locked her away in a mental asylum. The police? This is the 50's...older adult step father or 20 something girl who seems to have lost it to the point where she's just given up...the police of course side with the step father.
Do we want to see the main character in raggedy asylum clothes, going through her psychiatric sessions as she plots her escape while playing checkers with others in the asylum?
Or do you want to see what she see's trying to cope with the madness (real life) around her?
I get the feeling the critics wanted to see the former.
Though sidenote...one audience review said the mixture of scifi, steampunk, anime, fantasy battles made the movie basically unwatchable. o.O Did they not watch the trailer to see that it had all that wrapped up in one?
I watched the trailer AGAIN after reading that review and sure enough, that's what the trailer showed! Demon samurai, jet packs, dragon, mecha...
I was at a lose for that one.
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Not to mention critics will laud the hell out of anything so long as it has the right people involved, regardless of it being good or not.
Sadly in this particular case there are many dozens of reviewers who panning this movie. As I said before I'll probably see it anyway, but at least now my expectations are appropriately set very low for it.
P.S. Its score has dropped from 23% to 21% in just the last few hours.
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