City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

how about spreading out the inherents?

Arnabas

By Arnabas,
Posted on: 2011-02-24 20:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
Wait, what's this about Matt not being in charge any more? I've been away from the game for awhile.
Back in Jan 2010, War Witch took the mantle of Lead Designer. Allowing Positron to work with systems.

Big Boss [Producer] now is Second Measure who took over for Ghost Falcon in Jan 2011.

Let's Dance!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
What if they just removed the stamina bar entirely and we all got infinite stamina?
Infinite Stamina? Sure, that's fine. Provided of course that it means +25% Recovery.

Infinite Recovery? lolno

Infinite Endurance? lolololololno

Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

 

Posted

Lots of grumbling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaestroMavious
If it meant having to comb through my littany of alts and begin respeccing again....
NO.
There would be no need to respec if you had already done so for the inherent fitness powers. They would just be granted at slightly higher levels than 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch
Everyone goes back to crappy pre-inherent-Stamina days until level 11 so Regen can feel special? No, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulderone
No! The advantage they have, even now, is that Fast Healing and Quick Recovery can be STACKED with health and stamina.
They still have that advantage.
Caulderone is correct about the stacking; I never meant to imply otherwise. It's sort of a side-issue, but let me do a quick compare of Regen to Willpower:
Code:
Regen                                 Willpower
Quick Recovery at  4             Quick Recovery at 20
mez protection at 16              mez protection at 10
several heals                         no heals
little damage mitigation           lots of damage mitigation
IMO, there had been a sort of a dynamic equivalence between these scrapper sets. Regen has to wait for mez protection. Willpower has to wait for QR. Now I feel the scales have been tipped strongly in favor of Willpower. Like I said, this comparison is not the main focus of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Lol. Everyone seems to be against it, but I will agree. When they announced that they were going to drop everything in your lap at once, I was surprised and wondered why they hadn't decided to go the route that you're suggesting.

Now, I admit that I enjoy having more endurance at lower levels, but I understand what you mean by "creeping easiness".
Glory! At least one other person "gets it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
nope. especially on the no rest until 3. that's just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zortel
Frustration from having to wait around for rest to recharge, or having to scrimp together inspirations, is not difficulty. It is not enjoyable difficulty. It is fake difficulty that stands between actually playing the game. My Ice/DB Tanker guzzled endurance like mad, even with careful toggle management and trying to use the best attack for the least endurance to finish enemies. Before inherent stamina at 2, it wasn't harder to play him. It was more annoying to play him. I'd get through a mission and think "Oh god that was painful" and then log to someone more fun to play who isn't tuckered out so easily.
Delaying Rest from level 2 to 3 is what? Less than 30 minutes of playtime for a soloing player at default reputation? That is even if he has to pause play to recover some health or end.

As far as delaying Stamina from 2 to 11 (as apposed to getting it at 11 instead of 20), who will that affect, really?

* tanks/brutes/scrappers who have a damage aura that they take early in build
* players who take Hasten early (possibly. at least for 2 minutes out of 5, while up)
* and, mostly, players who don't realize (or are to stubborn to accept reality) that running Sprint and/or Ninja/Beast Run severely impacts their endurance during battle. Personally, I always shut these off at the beginning of a mission -- even if the character has both Stamina and Quick Recovery.

For the large majority of characters, they just don't have enough powers before level 11 to really notice whether they got Stamina at 2 or 11. Almost all players, though, felt the lack of it when they had to wait until 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
is that troll I smell?
While it's true I knew the post would be generally unpopular, it's a serious idea worth discussion. My posting history and (out-of-date, sigh) guide demonstrate that I'm not a troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado
If it had been like this from the start I would've had no problem, but changing it at this point would be a d*ck move
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy
This horse is way out of the barn, and I'm pretty sure it's not coming back.
You guys are probably right. But .. sometimes nerfs are beneficial, even when unpopular. A lot of you remember the screaming and hollering when Enhancement Diversification (ED) and the General Defense Nerf (GDN) came out. (I was more of a grumbler. Screaming gives me a sore throat.) Yet where could the game have gone without these changes? With players at already uber levels from their own-self powers, who needed buffer characters on their team? How could inventions have been implemented? What use would it be to become an incarnate at 50 if you had already achieved self-uberness at 44?

I don't believe my suggestion is anywhere near as significant/nerfing as either ED or the GDN. In fact, I see it as an enhancement to the way most of us took these powers from the fitness pool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow, in reply to Arnabas View Post
I can see how much Hurdle, Swift and Stamina would have helped with that. Health I can kind of see making a SLIGHT dent, but if you went AFK in the middle of a mob, you were either fighting something really weak or you'd otherwise built your character really strong, because inherent Fitness helps you be proactive more than anything else.
I think you missed the point of Arnabas' example. S/he was illustrating creeping easiness in general, not my specific idea. I'm betting a lot of long-term players know what I mean, even if they won't admit it. I like most the following changes, but their cumulative effect has been to slightly dumb-down the game, IMO. Some of my examples are:

* inherent fitness at level 2
* debt reduced to almost irrelevance
* accelerated XP gain thru level 24 -- how many early contacts have you never seen in years now, because you just level so darn quick?
* inter-zone travel via Ouroboros and enhanced trains/ferries has made base portals, well, quaint. Heh, I remember when base portals were a dev-send!

-- Rich
* Thresholds CoH: What to do When
* My Comics Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by reiella View Post
Back in Jan 2010, War Witch took the mantle of Lead Designer. Allowing Positron to work with systems.

Big Boss [Producer] now is Second Measure who took over for Ghost Falcon in Jan 2011.
I thought Brian Clayton was the big boss.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I can see how much Hurdle, Swift and Stamina would have helped with that.
Ah, sarcasm...

Of course Hurdle, Swift and Stamina have no effect on that.I wasn't actually referring to the Fitness pool with that example. I was commenting on the OPs feeling that there was a "creeping easiness". Whether it is because I am a better/ more experienced player or some other factor, I have also found that the game just feels much easier now. Not a major complaint, or anything. Just an observation.

Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
If it had been like this from the start I would've had no problem, but changing it at this point would be a d*ck move
Agreed.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
Ah, sarcasm...

Of course Hurdle, Swift and Stamina have no effect on that.I wasn't actually referring to the Fitness pool with that example. I was commenting on the OPs feeling that there was a "creeping easiness". Whether it is because I am a better/ more experienced player or some other factor, I have also found that the game just feels much easier now. Not a major complaint, or anything. Just an observation.
Go try out the sneak peak of the Incarnate Trials and then tell us how much easier the game is now than the days when a tank could herd an entire map full of enemies to one point and let the blaster destroy them all with his nuke.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandock View Post
Go try out the sneak peak of the Incarnate Trials and then tell us how much easier the game is now than the days when a tank could herd an entire map full of enemies to one point and let the blaster destroy them all with his nuke.
Or when a Fire Tanker could herd an entire map and destroy them himself if he was willing to take a few seconds longer.

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