Ok guys, I think I figured out the perfect answer for our Beast Master dilemma that will make everyone happy, details to follow later tonight when I get home and in front of an actual computer. 
EDIT: Done! Check out the OP for the new-and-improved Beast Master.
They should have a Swashbuckler AT
Melee+Defense Primary:Sword+Shield, Dual Blades+Reflexes, Pole weapon+Willpower, or a combination of Fist & feet attacks+Inv.
Ranged Weapons for a secondary: Archery+Trick Archery, Dual Pistols+Grenades, AR+ Devices/Traps.
Grenades: Web-grenade (single target imobilize), Glue Grenade (AOE-slow patch), Acid Grenade (AOE-def -res), Smoke Grenade (AOE -accuracy), Stun Grenade (AOE mag 3 stun), Fragmentation Grenade (moderate + knockdown), Incendiary Grenade (Burn Patch), Tear Gas (small AOE hold), Claymore (cone:superior + knockback).
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Looks like it would work ... although I'm hoping it would have much better overall damage than a defender.|
Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
Ok guys, I think I figured out the perfect answer for our Beast Master dilemma that will make everyone happy, details to follow later tonight when I get home and in front of an actual computer.
EDIT: Done! Check out the OP for the new-and-improved Beast Master. |
Not sure I like the Trickster name - maybe "Chanter"? I was wanting a musical power themed archtype, and Trickster really doesnt fit the bill.
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A little explanation on how I set this up. I put the power name first then what power it would be similar to and then if it is a toggle, click or auto power. The power advancement would be similar to that of the peacebringers or warshades.
Partisan
This a true power armor using character and not a special effect of the powers. While they can be of the magical or technological they cannot choose any other simliar to other ATs. I believe that characters can have mystical power armor as well as technological.
Offense
Self Defense Training: Barrage ending with a kick
Repulsors: Force Bolt
Eye Lasers: Laser Beam Eyes
Powered Punch: Energy Punch
Expanda-Crete: Stone Cages with zero damage
Energy Blade: Slash
Wide Beam Repulsors: Energy Torrent
Kinetic Distortion Generator: Disruption Field, toggle
Target Acquisition: Aim, click
Provoke: Taunt
Legsweep: Dragon's Tail
Energy Auto-cannon: Full Auto with the proton volley graphic
Holographic Image Generator: Cloaking Device, toggle
Plasma Torpedo Launcher: LRM Snipe with a blazing bolt and proton volley graphic combo
Super Soldier Armor
Morale (Inherent): Conditioning and Mental Training Combo
Body Armor: Wolf Spider, Auto
Tactical Training: Supremacy, Affects party members, Auto
Tactical Computer: Boost Range, click
Movement Enhancement: Flight Pack, toggle and Running Boost, Auto
H.U.D.: Tactical Training, Leadership and Assault, toggle
Force Field Generator: Dispersion Bubble, toggle
Powered Armor: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade, Auto
Improved Fusion Reactor: Quick Recovery, Auto
Override: Fiery Embrace equivalent, click
Unmanned Drone: Voltaic Sentinel combined with Targeting Drone, toggle
Polarized Armor: Invincibility, toggle
Super Soldier Upgrade: Quickness and Physical Perfection, Auto
Cermet-Laced Carbon Nano-tube Armor Upgrade: Strength of Will, Auto (no mental def)
Epic Respec
My second suggestion would be to allow an Epic Respec of sorts to allow characters who have completed all of the following a special respec which will be detailed later:
Complete all of there story arcs through lvl 50
Complete all task forces that are allowed to them
The character that does this must be lvl 50+1
Have more than 75% of the total badges that your character can get. I say only 75% since several badges can only be received in PVP areas and some people don't care for PVP.
The respec would allow that character and that character only to respec with any powers from any power sets they want. The restrictions would be limited to that they can only choose from powers that could normally be chosen at that level and type (offensive or defensive). For instance, the level one choices would be made from any level one powers.
A variation on this would be to allow a different power set entirely regardless of AT originally chosen. For instance, a tanker who meets all of the above requirements could choose a blaster offensive power set.
I am sure that there will be question and I will try to answer them as best that I can. Both of these options would be available to both blue and red sides.
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Can't you have a musical theme power set for any AT already?
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Originally Posted by Hercules
Looks like it would work ... although I'm hoping it would have much better overall damage than a defender.
Not sure I like the Trickster name - maybe "Chanter"? I was wanting a musical power themed archtype, and Trickster really doesnt fit the bill. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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There's already Sonics.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Can't you have a musical theme power set for any AT already?
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I mean base values. The Loyalty inherent power gives a boost, plus you have an awesome pet doing almost as much damage as you, and then even more so if your health is waning. So as long as you have your pet nearby, you're actually doing a lot more damage than a Defender.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
Looks like it would work ... although I'm hoping it would have much better overall damage than a defender.
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Originally Posted by Hercules
Not sure I like the Trickster name - maybe "Chanter"? I was wanting a musical power themed archtype, and Trickster really doesnt fit the bill.
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But that's just my opinion. If in the future they bust out a Bard AT, you're totally entitled to spam me with I-told-you-sos.
So does anyone have any positive or negative feedback on the AT that I suggested?
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Honestly, since I started this thread for the purpose of kicking around realistic ideas for basic archetypes, after skimming your post I just wrote it off as the ramblings of a player wanting to create a ridiculously overpowered toon who can basically do anything.|
Originally Posted by Bladedancer13
So does anyone have any positive or negative feedback on the AT that I suggested?
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But to analyze things further, the EAT you suggested just looks like a watered-down hodgepodge of powers from across the board that you'd personally like to equip your ideal toon with, or simply an amalgamation of the HEATs and VEATs. I would hope the next EATs to get introduced will have thematic career tracks like the VEATs and/or other options to set them apart. Also, the "Epic Respec" is something I can guarantee will never happen for a multitude of glaringly obvious reasons, regardless of whatever accolades a character may achieve.
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My deary deary me, I've never seen a new AT suggestion I loved the thought of playing until I saw the secondary combinations for this guy.|
Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
Aggressor (Villain/Praetorian) - Primary: Assault - Secondary: Reinforcement - Inherent: Critical Effect - Damage: High - Hit Points: Low |
Also the Wildcard guy looked pretty fun, if not just for Lightning Roding into PFF
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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I thank you for your feedback Deeweromekoms. As for not rehashing old powers with a new graphic on any new ATs or new power sets we have never seen that even though since its release several power sets and four EATs have been introduced.
Also I tried to design this EAT as more of a Epic Def that could solo. I will figure out the numbers on all the attacks and post them later today.
So I ask you how would you fix the build?
Since you shot down the idea of an Epic Respec I will not delve any further into this unless someone else would like to hear more.
Frankly, your ideas seem very over powered.
For the Wildcard, making the ally shields PBAoE goes way too far. Not even Defenders have that. Empathy would be god mode. Status Protection+Def+Regen+Heals+Dam+Recovery+Rech+To hit not to mention your +Res. I also notice that Force Field didn't get this change too.
The Reinforcement sets all appear to only have 1 or 2 controls but are mostly Defense Sets. A few holes in defense would be appropriate to leave full Defense Sets as the pinnacle of self defense. As it is the Aggressor, maybe add Debuff, not Buff, powers too. Hard controls like holds should be avoided as well.
Also, I'd always imagined that if Martial Arts were made into an Assault set, it would be combined with Dual Pistols. Assault Rifle would be more fitting with a CQC military style melee moves.
Perhaps instead of Trickster, Saboteur.
For the Beastmaster, seperating the pet from the primary and secondary set makes it feel like a 3rd power set to choose which would be unfair to all the other sets. The pet should really be the first power of the secondary with blasts that match the pet. On the subject of the pet, having new models of animals would require so much development time, it may never see the light of day. Also, limiting the pet to animals does a disservice to the Comic genere. And the name Beastmaster also puts too much emphasis on a fantasy setting. Best I could come up with is Commander or Trainer.
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I would just not do it. If you want to design an Epic AT so badly, take a crack at the Praetorian Epics. I think there's another thread for that.|
Originally Posted by Bladedancer13
So I ask you how would you fix the build?
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Originally Posted by Veldrane
For the Wildcard, making the ally shields PBAoE goes way too far. Not even Defenders have that. Empathy would be god mode.
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| The Reinforcement sets all appear to only have 1 or 2 controls but are mostly Defense Sets. A few holes in defense would be appropriate to leave full Defense Sets as the pinnacle of self defense. As it is the Aggressor, maybe add Debuff, not Buff, powers too. Hard controls like holds should be avoided as well. |
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| I'd always imagined that if Martial Arts were made into an Assault set, it would be combined with Dual Pistols. Assault Rifle would be more fitting with a CQC military style melee moves. |
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| Perhaps instead of Trickster, Saboteur. |
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| For the Beastmaster, seperating the pet from the primary and secondary set makes it feel like a 3rd power set to choose which would be unfair to all the other sets. The pet should really be the first power of the secondary with blasts that match the pet. On the subject of the pet, having new models of animals would require so much development time, it may never see the light of day. Also, limiting the pet to animals does a disservice to the Comic genere. And the name Beastmaster also puts too much emphasis on a fantasy setting. Best I could come up with is Commander or Trainer. |
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It's more the fact that the single target ally buffs, ie shields, can be mass cast while the other Buff sets cannot do it. But if Secondary Buffs for this class become AoE, the other Buff classes should be changed as well. I agree that fighting in melee should have defenses. But can you picture Trick Arrow for this class? Or Rad. If the lack of self protection through direct defenses is this big a hole, then more thought will be needed. If a straight port of the Buff sets won't work maybe a new hybrid Set Type is needed. Going back to the source material, Paladins engage in melee combat and healing\buffing. The twist is that other games make wearing armor an inherent ability and defenses are limited by the level of armor a class can use.|
Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
You really think so? This a melee class we're talking about; you need defense and mez protection or the AT would be drastically underpowered. The only other option is to sub in some straight Defense powers, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the AT altogether. I had also put a note on the Empathy set that the base values are a bit lower for the exact reason you pointed out, on top of stating that buff and damage caps would need to be set in the AT info section to avoid (trumpets and echo effects, please) overpowering. But yeah, activating several powers all at once would be a heck of a buff for a minute and change... between recharges. No different than any other AT with Buff/Debuff or using a bunch of Inspirations all at once. I don't really see the problem.
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With empathy, it's the combination of powers that will be overwhelming. A little of everything is much better than a lot of one thing. Even with activation times. And don't look at recharges to balance. Any reasonable recharges become excessive with IOs, Haste, and Alpha Spiritial.
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Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
I didn't want to take anything from the Assault sets and I also believe that making the secondary straight Defense would make the AT a bit overpowered given its range (as well as it being rather uninspired). To Buff yourself is to DeBuff anyone attacking you by comparison and vice versa, so it's the same difference. Warning me against using holds is moot; besides Seismic Smash in the Earth Assault set (a single-target melee attack), the Aggressor has no Holds. It's a lot to read, so I forgive you for skimming.
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Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
That works, too. I just wanted to whip up an Assault set consisting of a firearm and natural combat, so you got the idea.
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Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
I like that.
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Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
The pet isn't separate from the power sets at all; it's the level 1 power in the secondary sets for the sake of choosing the pet upon character creation as well as giving the player a choice of the first two powers in the Support set up front. I originally had it set up like you suggested, but I wanted to differentiate it from Masterminds to an extent as well as improve upon the options available to the player. As for the rest, I totally agree. I'm not too serious about the last two ATs (as stated), nor are they totally my ideas; my main focus is the Wildcard and Aggressor.
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The best part of your AT ideas is that you came up with the inherent power. That is probably the hardest part since even the devs needed some time for the Hero ATs.
For the Beastmaster, a stronger connection to the pet may be useful, such as granting the player buffs based on the pet's HPs or even a permant bodyguard mode. This could also be added with the pet buffs at higher levels.
The Critical Effect that you came up with may be even more appropiate for the Trickster.
A little less snark, deeweromo? No need to give posters the wrong intent and think you're insulting them.
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Well it is indeed sad since the idea was to present an AT and I did as such. When it didn't meet the specific ideas of what they thought an AT should be they tear it apart at the seams. When asked what they would do to fix it absolutely no attempt is made to give constructive criticism to try and render an AT, epic or otherwise, that might be considered for actual play.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
A little less snark, deeweromo? No need to give posters the wrong intent and think you're insulting them.
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As far as designing something that I wanted to "equip my ideal toon with", I don't see the point of designing a toon that I wouldn't want to play. As far as being "ridiculously overpowered toon", I must ask this, have you even taken a look at the EATs already in play? I have all but the Widows and I must say that there isn't much that any of them can't deal with on an individual basis. Honestly I believe that the Blue EATs get short changed on the epic end since the red EATs don't have a glaring weakness that can be exploited.
Now I understand that my post is going to be torn apart, and possibly with some good reasoning but I was just trying to suggest a build and not try and get laughed out of the room for coming up with an actual design. So unless all the haters actually get paid to build the power sets and put them into game play, I ask you please be more considerate of others build's since this is what this particular thread is about. On the other hand I challenge you to, in a single try, suggest a power set or AT that will be universally accepted by everyone here with rave reviews.
BTW Leo G I am agreeing with you.
Have a nice day.
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I apologize if I came off a bit coarse in my last few responses; it certainly wasn't my intent to offend anyone. You could say that between my participation in much darker boards and my recent lack of noitacidem, I've developed a sort of forum autism. I'll try to be more thoughtful of others' feelings henceforward.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
A little less snark, deeweromo? No need to give posters the wrong intent and think you're insulting them.
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Bladedancer13, what I should have put more... gently is that I didn't really see how that would fit into the game and it wasn't exactly the kind of idea I was looking for. For an EAT, yes, you're on the right track. As I stated before, I'd like to see some career tracks or other options to further differentiate it from the other EATs since it initially struck me as a 50/50 amalgamation of the HEATs and VEATs, but I have to admit I wasn't interested in investing the time into building upon it. I mean, Partisan to what, or whom? As an Epic, what is the epic back story? Is this a Hero or Praetorian or what? If it's a Hero, then... why? The concept, for a lack of any better way to put it, simply confounds me. If you were to present me with an idea for a basic archetype, then I could assure some more constructive action from my end. To put it metaphorically, when you ask your waiter for a list of entrées, you don't need him to tell you about the buffet.
Now, I do agree with you that the VEATs kick serious rear-end. Their weaknesses seem to fall mostly upon their general lack of hit points or inability to concentrate any overabundance of power into a specific ability due to their extremely varied power sets. I wouldn't call them overpowered per se; any AT is equally powerful if used to their full potential and they've been tweaked and nerfed consistently to maintain that balance.
That being said, I've been working (slowly) on some stuff in response to Veldrane. Namely, when I'm not nodding off in front of the computer as I am at the moment, I'll update the OP with updated inherent powers, power sets for the Saboteur (yes, I'm using that) and get some numbers down for the Wildcard and Aggressor. That way, we can create hypothetical builds and set up some instances to find out of they really are as overpowered as speculated.
As was previously brought up I will look to a Praetorian specific EAT to post this build to try and stay more in the bounds of the threads.
While I am reworking some things would anyone be so kind as to help look and post a link to the appropriate thread? Thank you.
Edit 6 is up! I'm pretty happy about this one; thanks to your ideas and advice I think these new ATs are really becoming viable additions to the game.
I'd also have the pet have an inherent "taunt", much like a tanks that will allow the pet to keep aggro.
The pet powers would feature:
- several attacks
- an explicit "taunt/growl" power
- a heal over time
- a defensive or resist toggle
- perhaps a couple of stun or knockdown powers.
This would allow me to make my "hunter" that I've always wanted.
Another thing I'd like to have is a choice of pet - perhaps each primary could feature a different type of pet, some more offense oriented, and others more "tankish". What would be really cool - costume drops for pets. For example, if your pet were a bird, there would be drops that would allow to choose what type of bird: Owl, Hawk, Eagle, etc. If your pet were canine: Dog, Wolf, etc.
The only obstacle I can see to this is the Dev's reluctance to do any more 3D modeling/animation. They have thier male, female, and huge models, and they're sticking to it...
They'd make the AT, and let's say have 5-6 different pets setup. The players would then complain that the pet didn't look exactly like they wanted.
Kinda like they do now with MMs.
Never mind there's the new AT and new power sets...ect.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection