Quote:
I'm all for mixing up the Dual Pistol set, but I fear the lose of Hail of Bullets.|
Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
Well, you obviously really like Dual Pistols. lol
Sounds a bit like my Aggressor idea, except A) Dual Pistols is just Ranged and not a mixture of Ranged and Melee like the Assault sets are and B) I didn't think using straight Defense sets was such a great idea with a ranged attacker for a few reasons. Besides the fact that 4 other ATs use them already (and they're all Melee), considering how much you'd have to nerf them to keep things fair (unless you gave Aggressors insanely low Mastermind-level hit points), it would make the secondary set rather boring and practically useless. That's why I decided it was best to mix them with some boosts and mezzes to keep things balanced and interesting. What's nice about the Aggressor is that the player can choose to build him with heavy focus on ranged attacks and defense without him becoming too overpowered, or more like a Scrapper, Dominator, or Blaster depending on personal preference. Kind of like an Epic AT, only not as... epic. But epically fun. As far as the other amalgamated Assault-style sets you listed, some of them just seem awkward and/or unnecessary. |
Now, I don't need it to be a nuke, it can be just a typical level PBAOE (though possibly a little more damaging as I think it has a longer animation), but I would want it in a Dual Pistol Set!
And coming up with 9 powers for a MA + Dual Pistol set, would likely be hard for me to do since I love a lot of the attack animations in both sets.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Shape Shifter.
BARD
Currently:
Controller = Primary:Control, Secondary:Buff/Debuff/Heal
Defender = Primary:Buff/Debuff/Heal, Secondary: Damage
How about:
Bard = Primary: Buff/Debuff, Secondary: A mix of damage and control
Instead of cast and forget buffs, I'd have toggleable AE "songs" that buff or debuff.
Already suggested this once and had it shot down, but cant hurt to bring it up again....
BEAST MASTER ( aka: Hunter )
Primary= Damage via a single summonable pet. Attacks vary depending on which pet is summoned ( I'd have something like Widows, where you choose tracks ). Would play something like an MM, but would have only a single powerful pet.
Secondary=Defense ( somewhat lower than a scrapper, but higher than squishy archtypes )
Alternatives would be just to have beast mastery as a secondary powerset for Blasters OR
to have Primary be damage ( like a blaster, but with a lower damage scale ), and summon beast powersets as the secondary.
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Quote:
I can see how how the Bard would get shot down simply because it's more of a fantasy-style type and not a semi-futuristic comic book type. I mean, name a comic book character that actually does that. It's probably just the name that put everyone off; I would bet people would be more open to it if you called it something else, like a villain type called a Trickster. However, the Beast Master is a pretty good idea. When Masterminds first hit the scene, I was surprised there wasn't animal control. But then again, that's something an archetype can be built around, and I think your idea could work. I have a high-level Thug/Poison Mastermind with a second build that just has the Brute pet so I could heavily slot everything else; it's definitely easier to handle one boss pet than a six-pack of minions and such.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
BARD
Currently: Controller = Primary:Control, Secondary:Buff/Debuff/Heal Defender = Primary:Buff/Debuff/Heal, Secondary: Damage How about: Bard = Primary: Buff/Debuff, Secondary: A mix of damage and control Instead of cast and forget buffs, I'd have toggleable AE "songs" that buff or debuff. Already suggested this once and had it shot down, but cant hurt to bring it up again.... BEAST MASTER ( aka: Hunter ) Primary= Damage via a single summonable pet. Attacks vary depending on which pet is summoned ( I'd have something like Widows, where you choose tracks ). Would play something like an MM, but would have only a single powerful pet. Secondary=Defense ( somewhat lower than a scrapper, but higher than squishy archtypes ) Alternatives would be just to have beast mastery as a secondary powerset for Blasters OR to have Primary be damage ( like a blaster, but with a lower damage scale ), and summon beast powersets as the secondary. |
Thumbs up from me!
OP: I really like your ideas. I'm all for new ATs and you have put a lot of thought into those. I've always wanted a healing warrior monk type of character.
@Joshua.
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I do remember a cartoon series some time back featuring a long blonde-haired Guitar-wielding super hero. Dont remember the series name, but I thought it was a cool concept. Yeah, the bard is a fantasy concept, but then look at Croatoa. I think fantasy does have a place in the game.
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I can see how how the Bard would get shot down simply because it's more of a fantasy-style type and not a semi-futuristic comic book type. I mean, name a comic book character that actually does that. It's probably just the name that put everyone off; I would bet people would be more open to it if you called it something else, like a villain type called a Trickster. However, the Beast Master is a pretty good idea. When Masterminds first hit the scene, I was surprised there wasn't animal control. But then again, that's something an archetype can be built around, and I think your idea could work. I have a high-level Thug/Poison Mastermind with a second build that just has the Brute pet so I could heavily slot everything else; it's definitely easier to handle one boss pet than a six-pack of minions and such. Thumbs up from me! |
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Okay, you lost me. o_O?
But anyway, my main focus was to come up with a couple more archetypes that are not only somewhat original yet balanced without too much work on the dev's part, but fun to play whether on a team or solo (not to say the existing archetypes aren't, but some get nearly impossible to solo with in their 20s and 30s). It would definitely get more people starting new toons and even getting back into the game if they stopped playing.[/QUOTE]I was saying instead of having the Wild Card AT have access to all melee powersets like Kinetic Melee and Dark Melee, that it would have melee powersets made for it (like the suggested Staff powerset).
I would also like to see your take on a shape shifting AT.
Quote:
Touché, my friend. Touché.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
I do remember a cartoon series some time back featuring a long blonde-haired Guitar-wielding super hero. Dont remember the series name, but I thought it was a cool concept. Yeah, the bard is a fantasy concept, but then look at Croatoa. I think fantasy does have a place in the game.
|
And I think the cartoon you're referring to may be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter%...ustice_Friends
Also, I've been thinking pretty long and hard about the ideas you put forth and there may be another giant wall of text coming your way at some point.
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So would I, actually. Perhaps nunchucks and tonfa sticks could work as well, but I thought I'd just keep things simple and do something monk-like with the staff, which sets itself apart from the other weapons with its sword-like speed despite being a blunt object and added range to boot. Also, having more work put into the new archetypes would naturally be a turn-off to the dev's willingness to green-light the project. A couple easily-made ATs could be introduced with an Issue update, whereas a tall order consisting of a wide array of new animations would quite likely be saved for an expansion pack. Of course, if my ideas were to be incorporated in one, you can put me down for a preorder right now.|
Originally Posted by That_Ninja
I was saying instead of having the Wild Card AT have access to all melee powersets like Kinetic Melee and Dark Melee, that it would have melee powersets made for it (like the suggested Staff powerset).
I would also like to see your take on a shape shifting AT. |
/wishful thinking
My take on a shapeshifting AT has already been established; it's been done. Peacebringers and Warshades, dude. There they are. I'm sorry to sound so outright dismissive about it, but I can bet my left arm that's what any of the devs will tell you. Perhaps what you want is more power set options for the HEATs?
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Thanks, man; I really appreciate that. How you just described the Wildcard is precisely what I was going for and I think it would be a big hit with the players.
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Originally Posted by Forefinger_
OP: I really like your ideas. I'm all for new ATs and you have put a lot of thought into those. I've always wanted a healing warrior monk type of character.
|
Quote:
I've been wanting the staff powerset for scrappers for a loooong time. | I was saying instead of having the Wild Card AT have access to all melee powersets like Kinetic Melee and Dark Melee, that it would have melee powersets made for it (like the suggested Staff powerset). |
I was majorly disappointed when they introduced "kinetic melee" - who asked for that?
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Quote:
Bard needs a name change for sure.|
Originally Posted by Hercules
BARD
Currently: Controller = Primary:Control, Secondary:Buff/Debuff/Heal Defender = Primary:Buff/Debuff/Heal, Secondary: Damage How about: Bard = Primary: Buff/Debuff, Secondary: A mix of damage and control Instead of cast and forget buffs, I'd have toggleable AE "songs" that buff or debuff. Already suggested this once and had it shot down, but cant hurt to bring it up again.... BEAST MASTER ( aka: Hunter ) Primary= Damage via a single summonable pet. Attacks vary depending on which pet is summoned ( I'd have something like Widows, where you choose tracks ). Would play something like an MM, but would have only a single powerful pet. Secondary=Defense ( somewhat lower than a scrapper, but higher than squishy archtypes ) Alternatives would be just to have beast mastery as a secondary powerset for Blasters OR to have Primary be damage ( like a blaster, but with a lower damage scale ), and summon beast powersets as the secondary. |
Though it sounds like it would have Cold Domination/Ice Blast unchanged from the original, so might want to give the AT different mods from corrs and defenders.
Beast Master would only work imo if the Primary included a few personal attacks, like the MM.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
OMG ME TOOOOO!!! |
Originally Posted by Hercules
I've been wanting the staff powerset for scrappers for a loooong time.
I was majorly disappointed when they introduced "kinetic melee" - who asked for that? |
/15 year old girl
Yeah, I don't really care for that set either. It's kinda cool looking, but I don't use it.
Quote:
Agreed, agreed, and goes without saying. I figure the Beast Master would have their pet summon on the forefront followed by the usual Mastermind setup with a couple melee attacks replacing the other two pet summons.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Bard needs a name change for sure.
Though it sounds like it would have Cold Domination/Ice Blast unchanged from the original, so might want to give the AT different mods from corrs and defenders. Beast Master would only work imo if the Primary included a few personal attacks, like the MM. |
I've already started working on my next massive wall of text for the Trickster (what I've balled up the Bard idea into) and Beast Master since they also sound like viable ideas and got my hamster running, but I'll reserve my judgement for whence I get it all on paper, weigh out power sets, run some numbers, etc etc etc. You guys should start tossing out some ideas and opinions on those.
EDIT: Here's the Beast/Weapon combos I came up with to swish around:
- Police Dog/Handgun & Combat
- Wolf/Ninja Blade & Stars
- Condor/Boomerang Blade
- Panther/Knives
- Bear/Assault Rifle & Bayonet
- Chimpanzee/Bamboo & Poison Darts
- Robotic Dinosaur/Pulse Rifle & Stun Baton
Quote:
Meh. While stick fighting is pretty cool looking (it's my favorite weapon, really, and why I trained with it myself) I'm a scythe person myself. I'm not sure why but just the name bleeds style and it has alternative implementive possibilities.
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OMG ME TOOOOO!!! /15 year old girl |
Quote:
That sounds good too. I can see it having dark energy properties bound to it.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Meh. While stick fighting is pretty cool looking (it's my favorite weapon, really, and why I trained with it myself) I'm a scythe person myself. I'm not sure why but just the name bleeds style and it has alternative implementive possibilities.
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Edit 4 is up.
OP Edit 4.1 up.
Or you can add to the old Archetypes.Give Blasters and Scrappers Ninjutsu secondary(Batman(adjust some of the powers,so they won't double or be off balance),also an adjusted Traps for Blasters. Scrappers get Warmace (Hawkman).Brutes get Spines and Ice Melee (just take Toxic out).Controllers and Dominators get a Darkness Maisima primary or Secondary.MasterMinds get a Radiation Emissions secondary, Along with a Stronger Illusion Control pet primary.Stalkers get a Devices secondary(adjusted of course(hide and reflexes little gadgets Secret agent stuff)). Tankers get a adjusted Energy Aura, Corrupters get an adjusted Mind Control and lower pet Illusion Control(assult more damaging, lesser pets)and Poison.Defenders get a Teamwork type primary ( adjusted from the Arachnos Teamwork(Buffing/Debuffing))or a Thermal. For Arachnos the Ancillary pool should open. And for Warshades and Peacebringers should have their own Epic Pool with each getting the teleportation and flight and other powers in the Kheldian Pool. And i would also like to see a Praetorian Epictype perhaps an Elemental type (ranged/defense or damage res, according to element) or a Melee Buff/Debuff type.
Quote:
I heavily doubt power proliferation will happen again, mostly just to differentiate the ATs with similar power sets. Each power that didn't already get copy & pasted to other ATs was for respective good reason. The EATs don't need Ancillaries, plain and simple. I do, however, agree that Praetorian EATs would be awesome and I think we're all just waiting for that to eventually happen.|
Originally Posted by retsnom1
Or you can add to the old Archetypes.Give Blasters and Scrappers Ninjutsu secondary(Batman(adjust some of the powers,so they won't double or be off balance),also an adjusted Traps for Blasters. Scrappers get Warmace (Hawkman).Brutes get Spines and Ice Melee (just take Toxic out).Controllers and Dominators get a Darkness Maisima primary or Secondary.MasterMinds get a Radiation Emissions secondary, Along with a Stronger Illusion Control pet primary.Stalkers get a Devices secondary(adjusted of course(hide and reflexes little gadgets Secret agent stuff)). Tankers get a adjusted Energy Aura, Corrupters get an adjusted Mind Control and lower pet Illusion Control(assult more damaging, lesser pets)and Poison.Defenders get a Teamwork type primary ( adjusted from the Arachnos Teamwork(Buffing/Debuffing))or a Thermal. For Arachnos the Ancillary pool should open. And for Warshades and Peacebringers should have their own Epic Pool with each getting the teleportation and flight and other powers in the Kheldian Pool. And i would also like to see a Praetorian Epictype perhaps an Elemental type (ranged/defense or damage res, according to element) or a Melee Buff/Debuff type.
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I'm guessing you wrote that because you think a second power proliferation is more likely to happen than new archetypes, but I honestly believe all the existing ATs are fine as they are (save for adding completely new power sets) and that 2 or 4 new ATs would be the way to go from here to make things more varied and interesting. Considering a few of the existing ATs are ridiculously similar to each other (i.e. the Stalker is just a Scrapper with Hide and fewer hit points, the Corrupter is a just a backwards Defender with a different Inherent, etc.), I'd say what I'm proposing would broaden the gameplay experience considerably.
I'm beggining to think the Beast Master would be better if the primary powerset dealt with controlling the pet only and let the secondary be a mirror of blaster primary power sets. (pared down in damage) I'd have the combination of pet attacks and the secondary attacks be fairly close to blaster levels, but not quite.
I'd also have the pet have an inherent "taunt", much like a tanks that will allow the pet to keep aggro.
The pet powers would feature:
- several attacks
- an explicit "taunt/growl" power
- a heal over time
- a defensive or resist toggle
- perhaps a couple of stun or knockdown powers.
This would allow me to make my "hunter" that I've always wanted.
Another thing I'd like to have is a choice of pet - perhaps each primary could feature a different type of pet, some more offense oriented, and others more "tankish". What would be really cool - costume drops for pets. For example, if your pet were a bird, there would be drops that would allow to choose what type of bird: Owl, Hawk, Eagle, etc. If your pet were canine: Dog, Wolf, etc.
The only obstacle I can see to this is the Dev's reluctance to do any more 3D modeling/animation. They have thier male, female, and huge models, and they're sticking to it...
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Quote:
Heh, you want to know the reason what powers that *did* get proliferated were done? Because those sets were *easiest* to port.|
Originally Posted by Deeweromekoms
I heavily doubt power proliferation will happen again, mostly just to differentiate the ATs with similar power sets. Each power that didn't already get copy & pasted to other ATs was for respective good reason.
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Proliferation will eventually happen, the devs even said so themselves. Will all sets be proliferated? Maybe not but the ones that are still applicable to the ATs most likely will.
Quote:
(Shrug) Awesome. I certainly wasn't against it. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Heh, you want to know the reason what powers that *did* get proliferated were done? Because those sets were *easiest* to port.
Proliferation will eventually happen, the devs even said so themselves. Will all sets be proliferated? Maybe not but the ones that are still applicable to the ATs most likely will. |
Quote:
Hmmm. Your Blaster-with-a-Tank-pet setup seems a little overpowered, but the Mastermind-with-Armor does as well now that I've been running the numbers. You're also right about the Devs. This may not work after all, or at least it isn't so far. I don't know, I'll keep you posted. :/
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Originally Posted by Hercules
I'm beggining to think the Beast Master would be better if the primary powerset dealt with controlling the pet only and let the secondary be a mirror of blaster primary power sets. (pared down in damage) I'd have the combination of pet attacks and the secondary attacks be fairly close to blaster levels, but not quite.
I'd also have the pet have an inherent "taunt", much like a tanks that will allow the pet to keep aggro. The pet powers would feature: - several attacks - an explicit "taunt/growl" power - a heal over time - a defensive or resist toggle - perhaps a couple of stun or knockdown powers. This would allow me to make my "hunter" that I've always wanted. Another thing I'd like to have is a choice of pet - perhaps each primary could feature a different type of pet, some more offense oriented, and others more "tankish". What would be really cool - costume drops for pets. For example, if your pet were a bird, there would be drops that would allow to choose what type of bird: Owl, Hawk, Eagle, etc. If your pet were canine: Dog, Wolf, etc. The only obstacle I can see to this is the Dev's reluctance to do any more 3D modeling/animation. They have thier male, female, and huge models, and they're sticking to it... |
Primaries:
Dual Pistols (Just as is!)
Pistol/Blade (Blade in one hand, Pistol in the other)
Dual Pistols/Martial Arts (Doesn't redraw to use attacks, has a mixture of DP's and MA's powers)
Blade/Martial Arts (See DP/MA)
AR/Martial Arts (See DP/MA)
Secondaries:
All available Armor sets!
\o/
We can start the new AT off simple with just Dual Pistols Primary and bring the rest over later.
Sounds a bit like my Aggressor idea, except A) Dual Pistols is just Ranged and not a mixture of Ranged and Melee like the Assault sets are and B) I didn't think using straight Defense sets was such a great idea with a ranged attacker for a few reasons. Besides the fact that 4 other ATs use them already (and they're all Melee), considering how much you'd have to nerf them to keep things fair (unless you gave Aggressors insanely low Mastermind-level hit points), it would make the secondary set rather boring and practically useless. That's why I decided it was best to mix them with some boosts and mezzes to keep things balanced and interesting. What's nice about the Aggressor is that the player can choose to build him with heavy focus on ranged attacks and defense without him becoming too overpowered, or more like a Scrapper, Dominator, or Blaster depending on personal preference. Kind of like an Epic AT, only not as... epic. But epically fun.
As far as the other amalgamated Assault-style sets you listed, some of them just seem awkward and/or unnecessary.