Deeweromekoms

I apologize if I came off a bit coarse in my last few responses; it certainly wasn't my intent to offend anyone. You could say that between my participation in much darker boards and my recent lack of noitacidem, I've developed a sort of forum autism. I'll try to be more thoughtful of others' feelings henceforward.

Bladedancer13, what I should have put more... gently is that I didn't really see how that would fit into the game and it wasn't exactly the kind of idea I was looking for. For an EAT, yes, you're on the right track. As I stated before, I'd like to see some career tracks or other options to further differentiate it from the other EATs since it initially struck me as a 50/50 amalgamation of the HEATs and VEATs, but I have to admit I wasn't interested in investing the time into building upon it. I mean, Partisan to what, or whom? As an Epic, what is the epic back story? Is this a Hero or Praetorian or what? If it's a Hero, then... why? The concept, for a lack of any better way to put it, simply confounds me. If you were to present me with an idea for a basic archetype, then I could assure some more constructive action from my end. To put it metaphorically, when you ask your waiter for a list of entrées, you don't need him to tell you about the buffet.

Now, I do agree with you that the VEATs kick serious rear-end. Their weaknesses seem to fall mostly upon their general lack of hit points or inability to concentrate any overabundance of power into a specific ability due to their extremely varied power sets. I wouldn't call them overpowered per se; any AT is equally powerful if used to their full potential and they've been tweaked and nerfed consistently to maintain that balance.

That being said, I've been working (slowly) on some stuff in response to Veldrane. Namely, when I'm not nodding off in front of the computer as I am at the moment, I'll update the OP with updated inherent powers, power sets for the Saboteur (yes, I'm using that) and get some numbers down for the Wildcard and Aggressor. That way, we can create hypothetical builds and set up some instances to find out of they really are as overpowered as speculated.

I would just not do it. If you want to design an Epic AT so badly, take a crack at the Praetorian Epics. I think there's another thread for that.

You really think so? This a melee class we're talking about; you need defense and mez protection or the AT would be drastically underpowered. The only other option is to sub in some straight Defense powers, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the AT altogether. I had also put a note on the Empathy set that the base values are a bit lower for the exact reason you pointed out, on top of stating that buff and damage caps would need to be set in the AT info section to avoid (trumpets and echo effects, please) overpowering. But yeah, activating several powers all at once would be a heck of a buff for a minute and change... between recharges. No different than any other AT with Buff/Debuff or using a bunch of Inspirations all at once. I don't really see the problem.

I didn't want to take anything from the Assault sets and I also believe that making the secondary straight Defense would make the AT a bit overpowered given its range (as well as it being rather uninspired). To Buff yourself is to DeBuff anyone attacking you by comparison and vice versa, so it's the same difference. Warning me against using holds is moot; besides Seismic Smash in the Earth Assault set (a single-target melee attack), the Aggressor has no Holds. It's a lot to read, so I forgive you for skimming.

That works, too. I just wanted to whip up an Assault set consisting of a firearm and natural combat, so you got the idea.

I like that.

The pet isn't separate from the power sets at all; it's the level 1 power in the secondary sets for the sake of choosing the pet upon character creation as well as giving the player a choice of the first two powers in the Support set up front. I originally had it set up like you suggested, but I wanted to differentiate it from Masterminds to an extent as well as improve upon the options available to the player. As for the rest, I totally agree. I'm not too serious about the last two ATs (as stated), nor are they totally my ideas; my main focus is the Wildcard and Aggressor.

Honestly, since I started this thread for the purpose of kicking around realistic ideas for basic archetypes, after skimming your post I just wrote it off as the ramblings of a player wanting to create a ridiculously overpowered toon who can basically do anything.

But to analyze things further, the EAT you suggested just looks like a watered-down hodgepodge of powers from across the board that you'd personally like to equip your ideal toon with, or simply an amalgamation of the HEATs and VEATs. I would hope the next EATs to get introduced will have thematic career tracks like the VEATs and/or other options to set them apart. Also, the "Epic Respec" is something I can guarantee will never happen for a multitude of glaringly obvious reasons, regardless of whatever accolades a character may achieve.

I mean base values. The Loyalty inherent power gives a boost, plus you have an awesome pet doing almost as much damage as you, and then even more so if your health is waning. So as long as you have your pet nearby, you're actually doing a lot more damage than a Defender.

Chanter doesn't sound right either; that evokes an image of a monk in a big brown robe to me. Again, I really don't see a musical-themed archetype working, so I tried reworking the basic idea into something viable. Plus, I needed to even out the hero-to-villain ratio. I mean, were the power set selections supposed to be different musical instruments or something? Lutes and flutes? Maybe a keytar? No offence, but I'm having trouble imagining myself presenting that idea to the Devs without them laughing and assuming I'm kidding. I started this thread in the hopes that one or more of the Devs would see this and say, "Hey, this doesn't look bad, we should do [something like] this."

But that's just my opinion. If in the future they bust out a Bard AT, you're totally entitled to spam me with I-told-you-sos.

There's already Sonics.

Hmmm. Your Blaster-with-a-Tank-pet setup seems a little overpowered, but the Mastermind-with-Armor does as well now that I've been running the numbers. You're also right about the Devs. This may not work after all, or at least it isn't so far. I don't know, I'll keep you posted. :/

(Shrug) Awesome. I certainly wasn't against it.

I heavily doubt power proliferation will happen again, mostly just to differentiate the ATs with similar power sets. Each power that didn't already get copy & pasted to other ATs was for respective good reason. The EATs don't need Ancillaries, plain and simple. I do, however, agree that Praetorian EATs would be awesome and I think we're all just waiting for that to eventually happen.

I'm guessing you wrote that because you think a second power proliferation is more likely to happen than new archetypes, but I honestly believe all the existing ATs are fine as they are (save for adding completely new power sets) and that 2 or 4 new ATs would be the way to go from here to make things more varied and interesting. Considering a few of the existing ATs are ridiculously similar to each other (i.e. the Stalker is just a Scrapper with Hide and fewer hit points, the Corrupter is a just a backwards Defender with a different Inherent, etc.), I'd say what I'm proposing would broaden the gameplay experience considerably.

That sounds good too. I can see it having dark energy properties bound to it.

Agreed, agreed, and goes without saying. I figure the Beast Master would have their pet summon on the forefront followed by the usual Mastermind setup with a couple melee attacks replacing the other two pet summons.

I've already started working on my next massive wall of text for the Trickster (what I've balled up the Bard idea into) and Beast Master since they also sound like viable ideas and got my hamster running, but I'll reserve my judgement for whence I get it all on paper, weigh out power sets, run some numbers, etc etc etc. You guys should start tossing out some ideas and opinions on those.

EDIT: Here's the Beast/Weapon combos I came up with to swish around:

• Police Dog/Handgun & Combat
• Wolf/Ninja Blade & Stars
• Condor/Boomerang Blade
• Panther/Knives
• Bear/Assault Rifle & Bayonet
• Chimpanzee/Bamboo & Poison Darts
• Robotic Dinosaur/Pulse Rifle & Stun Baton

OMG ME TOOOOO!!!
/15 year old girl

Yeah, I don't really care for that set either. It's kinda cool looking, but I don't use it.

Thanks, man; I really appreciate that. How you just described the Wildcard is precisely what I was going for and I think it would be a big hit with the players.

So would I, actually. Perhaps nunchucks and tonfa sticks could work as well, but I thought I'd just keep things simple and do something monk-like with the staff, which sets itself apart from the other weapons with its sword-like speed despite being a blunt object and added range to boot. Also, having more work put into the new archetypes would naturally be a turn-off to the dev's willingness to green-light the project. A couple easily-made ATs could be introduced with an Issue update, whereas a tall order consisting of a wide array of new animations would quite likely be saved for an expansion pack. Of course, if my ideas were to be incorporated in one, you can put me down for a preorder right now.
/wishful thinking

My take on a shapeshifting AT has already been established; it's been done. Peacebringers and Warshades, dude. There they are. I'm sorry to sound so outright dismissive about it, but I can bet my left arm that's what any of the devs will tell you. Perhaps what you want is more power set options for the HEATs?

Touché, my friend. Touché.

And I think the cartoon you're referring to may be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter%...ustice_Friends

Also, I've been thinking pretty long and hard about the ideas you put forth and there may be another giant wall of text coming your way at some point.

I can see how how the Bard would get shot down simply because it's more of a fantasy-style type and not a semi-futuristic comic book type. I mean, name a comic book character that actually does that. It's probably just the name that put everyone off; I would bet people would be more open to it if you called it something else, like a villain type called a Trickster. However, the Beast Master is a pretty good idea. When Masterminds first hit the scene, I was surprised there wasn't animal control. But then again, that's something an archetype can be built around, and I think your idea could work. I have a high-level Thug/Poison Mastermind with a second build that just has the Brute pet so I could heavily slot everything else; it's definitely easier to handle one boss pet than a six-pack of minions and such.

Thumbs up from me!

Well, you obviously really like Dual Pistols. lol

Sounds a bit like my Aggressor idea, except A) Dual Pistols is just Ranged and not a mixture of Ranged and Melee like the Assault sets are and B) I didn't think using straight Defense sets was such a great idea with a ranged attacker for a few reasons. Besides the fact that 4 other ATs use them already (and they're all Melee), considering how much you'd have to nerf them to keep things fair (unless you gave Aggressors insanely low Mastermind-level hit points), it would make the secondary set rather boring and practically useless. That's why I decided it was best to mix them with some boosts and mezzes to keep things balanced and interesting. What's nice about the Aggressor is that the player can choose to build him with heavy focus on ranged attacks and defense without him becoming too overpowered, or more like a Scrapper, Dominator, or Blaster depending on personal preference. Kind of like an Epic AT, only not as... epic. But epically fun.

As far as the other amalgamated Assault-style sets you listed, some of them just seem awkward and/or unnecessary.

Thanks! My fiancée actually said the same thing when she read it, but then we agreed the tarot card theme has already been done. I had also imagined the power animations as actually summoning ghosts rather than pulling cards. But hey, a Fortune Reading power set sounds pretty cool too.

Okay, you lost me. o_O?

But anyway, my main focus was to come up with a couple more archetypes that are not only somewhat original yet balanced without too much work on the dev's part, but fun to play whether on a team or solo (not to say the existing archetypes aren't, but some get nearly impossible to solo with in their 20s and 30s). It would definitely get more people starting new toons and even getting back into the game if they stopped playing.

Ummm... You basically killed the entire idea of the thread. Giving the Wildcard AT the Ranged primary instead (I guess that's what you meant) would pretty much just make it a Corrupter with a different Inherent power. Also, I'm talking about introducing new BASIC ATs. Last I checked, there already are shapeshifting EATs.

So demanding! Lol, I'll edit further later tonight once I'm in front of an actual computer. Good eye on the duplicate power, I'll fix that too.

Agreed, after all these years I think it's about time.

I hadn't seen that thread; those seem like decent ideas too. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks these power set combos would work.