WP and Regen provide you with better self healing, and Invuln provides you with better overall protection, while having sub-par self healing(Dull Pain is more of a +HP power).
If you add Dark Melee to the equation, which has a self heal, Invuln has the most synergy out of the three.
DM/Invuln is definitely one of the most survivable scrappers out there, and some would argue it is the most survivable.
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Dark works very well with wp and inv...I was never a fan of regen's clicky nature.
If you plan to invest in the toon invuln will likely come out ahead overall, tho wp is always amazing out of the box.
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
If you plan on playing him all the time, Regen's awesome (not to say the others aren't). If you run a ton of alts (like me), WP might be a safer bet, since it's more or less easy mode. Invul, sorta too.
Every time I jump on my Regen after a month or two off, I get my butt handed to me until I figure out the timing of all the heals vs. incoming damage again. Then I put him in storage again for a month or so. My WP just sorta plays itself.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
How deep are your pockets? For AV soloing, I think the /wp or /inv would be the way to go due to ease of capping defense - especially /wp for protracted battles (not nessessary, but easier).
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Dark works quite well with /Regen as well for the same reason it helps out /Invlun and that reason is Siphon Life. What an amazingly useful power. Haven't played an Invuln to 50 yet but I do have both a DM/Regen and a DM/WP (granted, she's a Brute not a Scrapper) at 50. The main difference between these two sets as far as I'm concerned is with /Regen you have to pay attention to your health bar a bit more to time Dull Pain (Unless it's perma'd and on Auto-Fire, in which case you need to watch Hasten instead), Reconstruction, Moment of of Glory and Instant Healing. (Shadow Meld too if you go with Soul Mastery) With /WP you just have to make sure you have enough enemies around you to saturate Rise to the Challenge and keep them alive (Not near the problem with Dark Melee as it is with other more AoE oriented powersets) and clustered around you. In other words, they both take a bit of work but the "work" involved in /Regen is a lot easier to fall out of practice with so I'm gonna agree with dave_p. Between /Regen and /WP go with /Regen if you're gonna play it a ton and go /WP if it's gonna be more of a once or twice a month character.|
Originally Posted by BlissfulChaos
Dark works very well with wp and inv...I was never a fan of regen's clicky nature.
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Wish I had a bit more insight on how /Invuln stacks up, planning on starting up a DM/Invuln Scrapper when I get a couple other characters leveled up to where I want them to be.
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
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It's probably the most survivable combination for Scrappers right now.
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Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Wish I had a bit more insight on how /Invuln stacks up, planning on starting up a DM/Invuln Scrapper when I get a couple other characters leveled up to where I want them to be.
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I would have guessed a more survivable scrapper than a DM/Invuln to be a /Elec combo, due to the faster recharge self heal +Siphon Life, you get about 12% less s/l resist, putting you at 41% total, but youll also get 41% to fire/cold/psi, capped energy and 35% dark resistance. Plus with the heal you get the endurance discount. |
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
It's probably the most survivable combination for Scrappers right now.
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But you start out with no defense, and no +HP. A DM/Invuln can have softcapped defense to S/L, E/N, F/C and capped HP, along with capped S/L res, and 25-30% res to all but psi.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
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But what about defense, or the lack thereof?|
Originally Posted by tcarter1987
I would have guessed a more survivable scrapper than a DM/Invuln to be a /Elec combo, due to the faster recharge self heal +Siphon Life, you get about 12% less s/l resist, putting you at 41% total, but youll also get 41% to fire/cold/psi, capped energy and 35% dark resistance. Plus with the heal you get the endurance discount.
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This is about layered survivability, and a Dark Melee/Invulnerability has nearly everything. With the help of IOs and pool powers, you can soft cap your defenses to most damage types, which is to say minimize the chance of enemies hitting you. For what does hit you, you have huge resistance, at least to smashing and lethal damage, and passable to most other types. For the damage that gets through that, you have capped hit points. And finally, you're topping up your hit points and healing at a clip with Siphon Life.
Electric has much less going for it on the survivability front. You might be able to do something like soft cap smashing/lethal, which is great, but leaves a lot more holes in your defense. The resistance is good, but not as good against the two most common damage types. Hit points are standard instead of capped. Healing is excellent if you go with Dark Melee, but not good enough to make it pull ahead.
On paper, I can get top survivability out of Katana/Dark. I have soft-capped positional defenses, 60% smashing/lethal resistance, generally better resistance to other damage types than Invuln, 1850 hit points, and a full heal every 13.5 seconds. But outside of overly simplistic mathematical models, it's not as good. Dark Melee/Invulnerability's extra smashing/lethal resistance combined with the extra hit points combined with the constant heal topping you up gives it the edge against massive spikes of damage, and for top end survivability, it's mostly about surviving massive spikes of damage. Mine is, of course, better against psionic enemies and probably several other cases, but doesn't win overall.
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Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Definitely WP. WP is what the old regen used to be. Regen now is too clicky and having bad timing leads to death easily. Invul is just lol period. No where near enough protection for what comes at you in the end game with all the exotic damage.
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Yes! Buff Invul!
| Invul is just lol period. No where near enough protection for what comes at you in the end game with all the exotic damage. |
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Originally Posted by Santorican
The question is do you like chocolate or vanilla? Because either way they're both very good
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Might I suggest.... Strawberry? DM/Shield!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. But seriously, I'd think with the incarnate system in place, REGEN has new life.
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I agree! Buff Invulnerability! |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
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Psst, this guy has no clue what he's talking about, does he?
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<< .. <<|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Definitely WP. WP is what the old regen used to be. Regen now is too clicky and having bad timing leads to death easily. Invul is just lol period. No where near enough protection for what comes at you in the end game with all the exotic damage.
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>> .. >>
~blink~
What?
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Yes I am dead serious. The set sucks major *** compared to WP. I even have a DM/Invul who dies way more than my WP scrapper. Its not that I dont know invul, hell my name sake was an invul who is perma retired because the set sucks so much since they cut it down in issue 5. I have tried all kinds of respecs to get a good working build but the result is still the same. Its never going to be with SO's the same as my WP with SO's. I refuse to put IO's into this character when I know its still going to suck. Basically I am going to say this. If you can show me pics and videos of invul scrappers surviving end game stuff thats non-smashing lethal attacks set for 8 people while using just SO's without unstoppable going then and only then I will admit I am wrong. My point in all of this is I cant say a set is playable if that playability comes from IOs. As you can tell from the post people been saying about the preview they are negating alot of that hard work put into IOs. So why build for this if the upcoming challenges just strip it away anyways?
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Originally Posted by LygerZero
<< .. <<
>> .. >> ~blink~ What? |
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Quote:
| I refuse to put IO's into this character when I know its still going to suck. |
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| If you can show me pics and videos of invul scrappers surviving end game stuff thats non-smashing lethal attacks set for 8 people while using just SO's without unstoppable going then and only then I will admit I am wrong. |
If someone shows you a video of a Dark/Invuln doing ridiculous things with IOs, would you then be willing to consider IOs in yours?
's doesn't make things plural.
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No because its the IOs that are making the set playable. If they can't do it with SO's then its not worth it.
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Originally Posted by Bonnes
Hmm... these two statements don't work well together. The second has no bearing on the first.
If someone shows you a video of a Dark/Invuln doing ridiculous things with IOs, would you then be willing to consider IOs in yours? |
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Quote:
Seems like a fairly closed minded comment there actually. I'll admit I don't have any Inv scrappers (I do have /Regen, /Shield & /Elec scrappers) but I do know the tanker version pretty well and can extrapolate. It's harder to soft cap an Inv scrapper than a tanker but it'll get really good as you get closer to the soft cap... and it has decent resists and heal/+HP to back it up.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
No because its the IOs that are making the set playable. If they can't do it with SO's then its not worth it.
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An Inv tank on SO's is... competent but not super effective. A soft capped Inv tank is almost at Stone Granite levels of durability. Taking that difference in a SO/IO tank and figuring roughly an equivalent improvement in a scrapper moving from SO to IO should get you a very effective character.
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So a set has to be great on SOs for you to consider... taking all the SOs out and replacing them with completely differently performing IOs?|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
No because its the IOs that are making the set playable. If they can't do it with SO's then its not worth it.
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Isn't that kind of like saying, "A set has to be great at level 20, or I'm not going to bother leveling to 50." It might be a true statement about how you behave in game, but level 20 performance has little to do with level 50 performance, and SO performance has little to do with IO performance. One should not be judged based on the other in either case.
Mind you, I'm confident that Invuln can do what you ask, but I don't feel any need to prove it, because I don't care if you play Invuln or not. Willpower IS great. Stick with that if you want. No skin off anyone else's back.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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There are sets that far outstrip others once they get into IOs. How do you not know this by now? |
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
No because its the IOs that are making the set playable. If they can't do it with SO's then its not worth it.
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Nice clause on the "non-Smashing/Lethal" part. That is the most common damage in the entire game, y'know.
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Quote:
There are alot of sets that suck at 20 and would play great at 50. But I am not going to play them because to me the whole point of a character is the journey and not the destination. Thats why playing with SO's is so important because your stuck with using them until you can be fully IOed out anyways. If I hate going from levels 1-49 but love 50 its not worth it to me thats all I am saying.
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Originally Posted by Werner
So a set has to be great on SOs for you to consider... taking all the SOs out and replacing them with completely differently performing IOs?
Isn't that kind of like saying, "A set has to be great at level 20, or I'm not going to bother leveling to 50." It might be a true statement about how you behave in game, but level 20 performance has little to do with level 50 performance, and SO performance has little to do with IO performance. One should not be judged based on the other in either case. Mind you, I'm confident that Invuln can do what you ask, but I don't feel any need to prove it, because I don't care if you play Invuln or not. Willpower IS great. Stick with that if you want. No skin off anyone else's back. |
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Quote:
I've outlived Granite Tanks on my DM/Inv Scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
An Inv tank on SO's is... competent but not super effective. A soft capped Inv tank is almost at Stone Granite levels of durability.
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Yes. Really.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
I am mainly concerned with the non-smashing/lethal part because in the 40 range thats where you get hit with it the most. Dont get me wrong I know I could tough it out till 50 but I would not have fun doing it especially if the SR or WP scrappers are doing fine while I am eating the dirt every 30 seconds. If the non-smashing/lethal part of the set was up to par I could deal with. On WP I can deal with it because your regeneration covers everything not just the S/L part. If they ever by some miracle allow for powerset respecs, all my invuls will become WP that same day.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
There are sets that far outstrip others once they get into IOs. How do you not know this by now?
Nice clause on the "non-Smashing/Lethal" part. That is the most common damage in the entire game, y'know. |
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im planning a dark mele scrapper and i was wondering what would be the best second out of the three im thinking about invul ,wp or regen
this scrapper will be used mostly on sf's an av soloing thank you for any help