how about a dark assault secondary

We already know the reason the Devs haven't done Dark Control yet (too much overlap with Dark Miasma, becomes a problem when Controllers want to make Dark/Dark), but Dark Assault could certainly come first. They made Elec Assault many issues before Elec Control, after all.

Or they could give you Life Drain instead

Wouldn't the Council/5th Column Vampyrs be surprised when we started whipping their arses in the same way they've been doing to us for nearly 7 years?

Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe ::looks at RaikenX's signature:: Something funny.

I wouldn't be too down on the chance of getting siphon life or life drain. Dom primaries are control sets, none of which would have a self heal anyway. Dom secondaries are mashups of blast and melee sets with an occasional utility power thrown in. Again, (excluding dark sets), there wasn't an *opportunity* to give them a heal, apart from the utility power. And of the secondaries with a utility power, only fire, ice, and earth even have thematically matching self heals that could have been included. Plus, doms get two +regen powers in drain psyche and spirit tree. Finally, we do even get an actual heal - a dull pain clone (hoarfrost) in ice mastery. I don't think that 'no self heals' is actually a design decision (like apparently is the case with stalkers and endurance recovery tools) so much as they just haven't had any reason or opportunity to.

On the other hand, I definitely wouldn't expect to see either tenebrous tentacles or dark pit, because I expect those to be yanked for use in dark control (suitably modified, of course). I also wouldn't be too surprised to see some variation on touch of fear or cloak of fear in dark control, so I wouldn't expect those in dark assault either. All of the various possible new dark sets are interrelated and thus will need to be handled carefully - Sunstorm posted about this once.

For a hypothetical dark assault, I'd look at it this way. Dark blast, gloom, and at least two from the list (shadow punch, smite, shadow maul, midnight grasp) seem sure choices. Soul drain is out because it's in two epics already. Nightfall seems likely, but there's no dark-themed PBAoE to give them, so a possible second AoE is up in the air (unless it's shadow maul). The possible issue with nightfall, though, is that it's a *very* narrow cone to give to an AT which is expected to be in and out of melee - perhaps they'll modify it some. I would think that one of siphon life or life drain would be in, but of course not both. Oppressive gloom would be incredibly difficult to balance (mag 4 stun aura when in domination? ), so that seems a bit questionable to me, although there aren't too many other utility powers *left* to give them. Torrent is another possibility for a 'utility' power, or maybe death shroud (unlikely). Moonbeam is a definite possibility, especially if they choose siphon life instead of life drain. And, as a *completely* off the wall possibility, I could see some insane dev putting in soul transfer as the 'utility' power (which would be awesome ).

If I were making it, I'd probably do something like this (if I was only allowed to use existing powers):
1: Dark blast
2: Shadow punch
4: Shadow maul
10: Gloom
16: Smite
20: Nightfall
28: Torrent or Soul transfer
35: Moonbeam/Midnight Grasp
38: Siphon life/Life drain

Basically, either moonbeam+siphon life or life drain+midnight grasp, depending on which one the devs decide would be more appropriate. Give me the life drain/midnight grasp/soul transfer version and I'd be taking all 9 powers.

Oh gods, Nightfail

I'd really HATE nightfail in a Domi set. The to-ing and fro-ing is bad enough on normal cones in Domi sets. Giving Dark Assault Nightfail would be horrendous (because the cone is so narrow)

I'd personally switch it for a ranged chained power which would suit a Domis playstyle better.

Moonbeam and Torrent are also poor choices for a Domi IMO. I'd switch Torrent for a PBAOE along the lines of Tremor (bear with me) which also works like a short duration, lower strength Soul Drain (something like Warshade Dwarfs get)

Something like :

1: Dark blast
2: Shadow punch
4: Shadow maul
10: Gloom
16: "Soul Mire"
20: "Crawling Dark"
28: Smite
35: Midnight Grasp
38: Life drain

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

Soul Drain and Dark Consumption are out because they're in the Soul PP. Which is why I suggest something more like a Dark Dwarfs Mire, skirting along the edge of the "No Duplicate powers" rule but not falling into it.

Most of Dark Control is out because Controllers would also get the set and Dark Miasma as a proliferated secondary (this is the chief stumbling block really, making a Dark Control set which would sit pretty with Dark Miasma for Controllers)

Snipes have no business in Domi sets really IMO. Not with the way the AT has been rejigged and developed since release.

Well every Dom secondary that could have a Snipe did, so it's in.

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

Well, I did specify that this would be the version that uses only existing powers. I don't like nightfall, torrent, or moonbeam very much either, but if I didn't have any other choices, I'd use them.

And there's no reason why the stats couldn't be tweaked, too. If I did have to make a dark assault set along the lines I listed above, I would definitely make some changes. Something like:

Shadow punch: Becomes 6s recharge, with appropriate increase in damage
Smite: Becomes 8s recharge, appropriate increase in damage
Nightfall: ... crud. I've lost the AoE formula. Oh well, I can't give an exact number, but I'd turn it into a 45 degree 40 foot cone, with whatever tweak in damage and/or recharge is given by the AoE balance formula.
Torrent: Also becomes a shorter, wider cone
Life Drain: Damage becomes scale 1.32, recharge decreases to 10s, end decreases to 10.192.

(By the way, anyone have the AoE balance formula and damage/recharge formula handy? My calculator seems to have forgotten them the last time I changed the batteries.)

I can agree to pretty much all those changes. One note though, when Siphon Life got changed they gave it full damage for it's new recharge time, so there's really no reason Life Drain shouldn't get bumped to the standard 1.96scale for a 10s recharge.

Honestly I don't think it'd be all THAT hard to do. (Standard code rant and all that jazz.) Dark assault is easy enough to cobble together. It's just a matter of picking powers and putting them in a row.

It's the Controller aspect that's the problem. A lot of the ideas people post for Dark Control canibalize Dark Miasma, but no matter which way they look at that If they want to proliferate Dark Miasma to Controllers to match Dark Control, they'll need to make new powers to fit the holes. Since they'd have to make a full set's worth of new powers anyhow I would say leave Dark Miasma as it is (with a few modifications, mainly to Fearsome Stare and Fluffy) and just make Dark Control a fully new set.

Here's an idea I posted in the Lady_Jade thread a long time ago (edited a bit since then).

Dark Miasma would get the following changes:

Fearsome Stare - Cone shortened to 50feet. Recharge increased from 40seconds to 60seconds (maybe even up to 90s depending). Magnitude lowered from 3, to 2. This still leaves it useful for neutralizing minions, or for stacking, akin to Thunder Clap's uses from Storm, but makes it so that you can't use it very well as a primary control method.

Dark Servant - Gets the Mastermind treatment... Recharge upped from 240seconds to 500seconds. Retains it's 240seconds duration.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Dark Assault.

Most likely something like this:

1) Dark Blast
2) Shadow Punch (1.32ds, 6s recharge)
4) Gloom
10) Shadow Maul
16) Smite (1.64ds, 8s recharge)
20) Siphon Life or Life Drain (1.96ds, 10s recharge)(Counts as the set's Utility power, cause the main powers you would put here, Soul Drain and Dark Consumption are already in the PPPs/APPs so can't go in the set.)
28) Night Fall (hopefully with a wider cone)
35) Moonbeam (I would frankly rather get something else here, but the snipe is most likely)
38) Midnight Grasp

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

Aye, and in fairness a "feature" of Dark Blast is that it gets its snipe early.

Snipes really need a look at though in general. Personally I'd give them a mag 2 fear or stun on the target (depending on the snipe, Darks, AR and Psi would have fear, others would have stun) and a 60% chance of summoning a 10 foot mag 2 same-mez type patch at the target, to represent the shock and awe of a mob getting headshot.

In terms of Dark Control the idea of nicking powers from the Soul Patron Pool and Warshades as Oathbound has done makes some sense. As a Domi I also like the multiple PBAOEs too (because I'd like to try another melee friendly Domi with Dark or Earth Assault)

One idea I had for the Dark Control Tier 9 pet would be taking the mechanism from Extract Essence (summon a pet from an enemy corpse) and summon the Spirit from Necromancys Soul Extraction as a Shade or Shadow (dunno what tier of Spirit you'd summon really, 2 would probably be about right). Like Extract Essence and Soul Extraction each pet would only stick around for a few mins, but you could have more than one out if you slotted them for recharge.