Knockback

Another thread on KB including alphas inspired something. We have the mechanics for "external" enhancements like the alphas, so I was thinking, what if all KB (excluding powers where it REALLY, REALLY has to be KB thematically) was reduced to KD and all players were given a sort of alpha enhancement which only enhanced KB.

As far as I know, the mag of the KB doesn't make a huge difference in the KB distance, and most enemies don't have that much in the name of KB protection. Would it work if all KB powers were reduced to the value of 0.67 and people were given, say, three tiers of "KB Alpha Enhancements" to slot if they want to with different KB values available? I'd make them unlockable by level, first available at level 1, second at 12 and third at 22, just like different tiers of enhancements become available. Values could probably be around 50%, 100% and 200% boost.

Better yet, if those "alphas" could be made to modify the base value of 0.67 in a way that regular enhancements could affect the already enhanced value, people could still have silly KB.

This way people who dislike KB could play KB heavy sets toned down to KD while KB fanatics could keep their bouncy attacks. All they'd need to add is a tooltip when you first login to ask whether or not you want to slot it right away and give instructions on how to slot/deslot it later on if you change your mind.

At one point in time, we had a knockback elimination idea of some sort every single month, like clockwork, but then for some reason they just stopped.

Glad to see the tradition is alive and well again.

I'd guess this is different in that it doesn't totally get rid of KB, and yet doesn't have KB fanatics have to change their power slotting in order to get the KB back.

The numbers might need some tooling around to make it work better, though. Those where just off the top of my head.

The KB Mag does indeed affect KB distance. Some powers have very high mag knockback, for the express purpose of knocking things back a decent amount. Reducing those to KD with the ability to enhance would make them far less valuable, even fully enhanced. I know that you mention those powers which need to remain KB, but I think you'll find that people's response on which powers those are would change from person to person.

I had kind of hoped that the suggestion would have been for MORE knockback. That'd be fun.

No, we do not need any way to turn down or mitigate knockback. Because then it'd become mandatory from some melee people that you'd HAVE to have that slotted, whether you want to or not.

If any change is to be made to knockback, it's to remove all "chance for knockback" and make them guaranteed. Energy Blast is annoying because you can't rely on the knockback, it just knocks them around when it feels like it. If the powers were guaranteed to knockback, only with various distances, then it'd be a lot better as you could aim the knock and be sure to get the enemy to land exactly where you wanted. (Try to hit the Scrapper, it's fun!) Even Kick would be much more useful if it had a 100% chance of knockback. It'd be a good "Go away!" power for those that want Tough, but otherwise don't want to be in melee.

So, no to any kind of knockback off-switch. But yes to making powers that do knock back reliable. Force Bolt is a glorious power, simply because it does allow you to put a bad guy exactly where he needs to be. Like introducing Trapdoor to the lava. (Then reintroducing him to it when he climbs out.) If more of the knockback causing powers could even get close to this kind of reliability, it'd be awesome. And overpowered, most likely.

EDIT: Hm, maybe I should make a writeup of an Energy Blast revamp based on that idea...

So many threads on KB before. Still going with KB is great and fine as-is.

Any changes like this will just create situations where people will complain that they are slotted for KB and told that they should have it KD.

Also, KB is a learned skill and a great mitigation tool. Newer players would be just told to slot for KD effect since they will be wrongly told KB is bad.

And I still believe the devs take KB vs KD into consideration when balancing powers. Changing to KD would possibly make some powers overpowered IMO.

I wasn't trying to prove that increased knock-back magnitude increased distance with my numbers. I was just asserting that it did.

I don't know the function to convert knock-back magnitude into Knock-back distance, I just know that there is one. Unless you care to demonstrate that past a certain magnitude, knock-back distance is constant, I'm happy with my assertion and then with the argument that follows.

I dunno, I just tried comparing my unslotted Energy Torrent (mag 5 KB) to my slotted Power Thrust (mag 45 KB) on a level 40-ish Warhulk and the knockback distance looked pretty much the same to me.

Anecdotes are not evidence. Particularly not when they include "it looked pretty much the same."

Aw, but they're all running around and dying from my attacks...