Return to the old defiance for Blasters.
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-02-07 15:04 in Suggestions and Ideas
/disagree.
I far prefer not being "gimped" of my Defiance because I've been healed, as well as being able to attack while mezzed. Plus, if you'll notice, you've got pseudo-fury going on - each attack buffs you a bit for a short time (varies by attack.)
They got rid of the old Defiance because it just flat out wasn't helping Blasters.
No. I haven't noticed any pseudo-fury going on. What I've noticed is that when held, stunned, etc. the first couple of attacks being able to fire really don't help me survive the same way that the old Defiance did with a damage boost.
Oh well. Sign or dissign.
@Joshua.
There's no chance in hell this happens.
-signed by the committee for bad suggestion advisement, advising you to always search first or risk making a bad suggestion.
I don't like this idea.
I found the old defiance to be totally worthless. Almost as bad as the old Vigilance. So, no, reverting to the old Defiance would be a terrible idea.
i'm honestly befuddled that anyone would prefer a damage buff to a system that allows any blaster to solo anything in the game without having to keep a tray full of break-frees on hand.
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Quote:
Pay attention to your status bar. You should see icons similar to what your attacks use building up - stacking, even. |
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
No. I haven't noticed any pseudo-fury going on.
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Also, full info on current Defiance here at the wiki.
Quote:
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Each bonus starts when an attack begins to activate and lasts throughout the activation, plus 7.5 seconds more. So every attack provides the same window afterward for additional attacks to get its Defiance bonus. Code:
Damage Bonus = 6.6% * Activation Time / Area Modifier where Area Modifier = 1 + (0.15 * radius) - ( 0.0003667 * radius * (360 - arc) ) (Notice that Area Modifier is always just 1 for single-target powers and always 1 + (0.15 * radius) for circular AoEs. You only need the whole formula for cones.) |
Quote:
| What I've noticed is that when held, stunned, etc. the first couple of attacks being able to fire really don't help me survive the same way that the old Defiance did with a damage boost. |
In addition, and part of the reason it got changed, it rewards smarter gameplay - no "Don't heal me," no "Run in and hope you get damaged enough but don't die before hitting purples," no "jump off a roof" (which, yes, I *did* do for laughs - 1000+ points of damage to a Spectral Demon Lord in the old Faultline was amusing, but not something I'd do in an actual fight.)
Simply, as mentioned before, blasters (as per the devs) were badly underperforming. Defiance 1.0 didn't help that. 2.0 seems to be a good step forward so far. Stuns and mezzes are no longer a death sentence.
Numbers aside (they just hurt my head, anyway) I've noticed my survivability go up a notch or two because I can fire while mezzed. And the stacking of damage helps a lot, I have found. The older version of Defiance just wasn't enough of a buff to be helpful when the health bar got kinda low, in my opinion.
Not signed.
New defiance is actually useful for me.
new defiance is a way to make things more fair compaired to tanks and scrappers defender and controlers they ger to use their those character aspects all the time scrapper get criticals, tanks get better taunts, controlers get better crowd control. What do blasters used to get?
well when a blaster was about to die his or her power would skyrocket. In most cases it was not fair for blasters because it would encourage bad behavior for blasters. to get more power you have to almost die. Scrappers dont have to almost die to get criticals.
as foes got stronger you really never used defiance becuase you would get one shot killed limiting defiance situation to a once in a blue moon strategy.
"Never attempt to balance mechanics through Role Playing."
Castle
Quote:
I did search first, and it's only your opinion that it's a bad suggestion.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
There's no chance in hell this happens.
-signed by the committee for bad suggestion advisement, advising you to always search first or risk making a bad suggestion. |
@Joshua.
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Well, technically, since it was discarded for the current Defiance 2.0, it's also the Devs conclusion that 1.0 was inferior.
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Originally Posted by Forefinger_
I did search first, and it's only your opinion that it's a bad suggestion.
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Quote:
Did your reading comprehension in the search go as bad as your reading comprehension in this thread?
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Originally Posted by Forefinger_
I did search first, and it's only your opinion that it's a bad suggestion.
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Quote:
Did your reading this thread make you decide to be rude?|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Did your reading comprehension in the search go as bad as your reading comprehension in this thread?
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I'll admit that I'm obviously in the minority here, and that most of you think it's a bad suggestion, but that means that it is just your opinions that it's a bad suggestion. I still maintain that it's a good suggestion. All you have to do is express your opinion of it, I don't see the need to be rude about any of this.
@Joshua.
I'm not really allowed to express what I think about this suggestion due to basic rules of courtesy and keeping it "clean".
Given that OP did not even understand how the new Defiance mechanic works....
As a Blaster player, I would oppose the reinstitution of old defiance with every ounce of persuasive ability I possess. But fortunately for me, the Devs did some datamining and determined old defiance sucked.
/jranger
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Quote:
Until your highly flawed assertion that it was 'only my opinion', there was nothing rude in our conversation (and if you think you did adequate research and that my opinion was mine only, I do question your reading comprehension skills). My advice in my original post is one I give in all suggestions threads, and for good reason: most of them do not do the research necessary to avoid getting embarrassed. |
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Did your reading this thread make you decide to be rude?
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Learn from this lesson, and walk away from this thread. It will not get any prettier as it goes along. Before making any more suggestions, I highly recommend you do the proper work necessary to ensure it is a workable suggestion. It takes a lot of work to make a good suggestion, and junk thrown on the board will get the treatment one would expect.
If you think I'm being rude, you do not have skin thick enough to be throwing up poorly constructed, flawed suggestions.
One of the most memorably dumb moment I've had in my long time playing the game came shortly after inherent powers were added. I had only gotten my first level 50 (an Empathy Defender) a little bit before that happened, and for a while, I just enjoyed being the big guy who could help people out... I occasionally would hang out in low-level zones doing run-by heals and buffs on people who seemed to be in trouble. A lot of the time people didn't seem to notice, and just helping made me happy... and the times that people did notice, they usually thanked me profusely!
Then, one day, I got cussed out in broadcast for doing it. Because I had healed a Blaster, and ruined their Defiance. From that day forward, I was pretty sure that the original Defiance was not the best idea. 
In short: unsigned. I think the current Defiance is much better, and most of the players and the Devs seem to agree.
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Quote:
What do you say to the fact the developers deliberately replaced Defiance 1.0 with the current Defiance, not due to player opinion but quite a bit of datamining that showed it flat out didn't help?|
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
I'll admit that I'm obviously in the minority here, and that most of you think it's a bad suggestion, but that means that it is just your opinions that it's a bad suggestion.
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I'm sure someone, somewhere wants the old Moment of Glory back, or exclusive armor toggles on tanks (for some reason,) but they were changed for a reason. Defiance 1.0 didn't help Blaster performance or survivability. They seem rather happy with Defiance 2.0 - as do most blasters, informally. (Defiance 1.0 is also tarred with being Jack's baby, with the suggestion to "tell your team not to heal you!" among other gems. Remember, a dead blaster is causing no damage (other than being used for a corpse bomb, with the appropriate powersets.)
Quote:
Point taken, but this thread, as well as all our opinions are just that, our opinions. Several times recently I've been at the end of my health bar, about to die, on a lowbee blaster and I've come to miss the old defiance in those instances. The old version used to help me with killing the last of a mob as I'm about to die with some massive damage. I've never cared for the new version in comparison. But, that's just my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What do you say to the fact the developers deliberately replaced Defiance 1.0 with the current Defiance, not due to player opinion but quite a bit of datamining that showed it flat out didn't help?
I'm sure someone, somewhere wants the old Moment of Glory back, or exclusive armor toggles on tanks (for some reason,) but they were changed for a reason. Defiance 1.0 didn't help Blaster performance or survivability. They seem rather happy with Defiance 2.0 - as do most blasters, informally. (Defiance 1.0 is also tarred with being Jack's baby, with the suggestion to "tell your team not to heal you!" among other gems. Remember, a dead blaster is causing no damage (other than being used for a corpse bomb, with the appropriate powersets.) |
@Joshua.
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This is all just your opinion as well.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Until your highly flawed assertion that it was 'only my opinion', there was nothing rude in our conversation (and if you think you did adequate research and that my opinion was mine only, I do question your reading comprehension skills). My advice in my original post is one I give in all suggestions threads, and for good reason: most of them do not do the research necessary to avoid getting embarrassed.
Learn from this lesson, and walk away from this thread. It will not get any prettier as it goes along. Before making any more suggestions, I highly recommend you do the proper work necessary to ensure it is a workable suggestion. It takes a lot of work to make a good suggestion, and junk thrown on the board will get the treatment one would expect. If you think I'm being rude, you do not have skin thick enough to be throwing up poorly constructed, flawed suggestions. |
@Joshua.
Eh, I kind of did like the old defiance..when worked. Your HP had to be really low to get an appreciable buff and by then you'd either be quickly killed or you'd pop a heal/be healed by a teammate and it disappear.
Maybe if it lasted a couple seconds after being healed? And it didn't require you to be in the red? And roll in the part of Defiance 2 that lets you shoot while mezzed?
But then that's probably way better than what Blasters have now (at least situationally).
Quote:
See, that's not really how opinions work.|
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Point taken, but this thread, as well as all our opinions are just that, our opinions.
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Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
In this case the Developers performed datamining on the performance of Defiance 1.0 and found it to be lacking. That you were personally benefiting or otherwise able to make it work is irrelevant to how it affected Blasters as a whole.
The evidence showed that Defiance 1.0 simply was not working. That's not something that's a judgement call based on insufficient evidence as the Developers have access to all sorts of performance based data. Saying 2.0 is better for Blasters than 1.0 was isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Now you could argue for a Defiance 3.0 or a hybrid 1.5, but that would be different.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
thing is with new defiance you can avoid those stiuations this game is more than just sit there and click powers if your blaster does not move around to stay out of range of your enemies you will suffer more face plants.
defiance is not supposed to usurp you own powers its for flavor like salt
"Never attempt to balance mechanics through Role Playing."
Castle
The datamining in question is this: Blasters were the slowest leveling AT. Why? They were the AT most prone to dieing, which incurs Debt, which slows down leveling.
The situation of finishing off that last foe with Old Defiance was great, but too situational. How many times when you're about to die that you only have one foe shooting at you?
It also encouraged Blasters to live on the edge purposely incurring low hp and thus making them more likely to die. Thus, it encouraged bad playstyle.
New Defiance has a Damage buff that relies on attacking, not incurring damage. That is better. New Defiance also has a partial mez workaround. That is better.
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I suggest that the new defiance be replaced with the old defiance where damage output is scaled up as the health bar goes down.
Although I think it's kind of cool to be able to fire of a couple of attacks with my blasters while being held, stunned, etc., I still really miss the old days when my health bar is down towards the bottom (as is often the case when I'm playing my blasters) and I used to start doing mega damage to save my skin. It was a great equalizer.
I think that the whole inherent power, "Defiance" is better defined by doing more damage as the health goes down to survive and defy death.
@Joshua.