ELEC/SHIELD minion/lieut health?
By
DSorrow,
Posted on: 2011-02-01 17:47 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Using only LR/SC will be unlikely to clear a spawn, and would be terrible for farming. They're good powers, but you're going to need more than just that.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
really? because i was looking at the numbers and at:
90% fury, and fully saturated AOO hitting build up right before i hit those two powers it would be the equivalent to doing something absurd like 1200 damage? is that not quite enough?
Jordon Justice
First and foremost, you're going to miss. Period. No matter what you do, you'll still miss on average 1 out of every 20 critters.
Second, you won't always have all of the spawn within range of your attack. SC has half the radius of LR, too.
Third, you truly do need ridiculous recharge in order to have LR and SC available for every single spawn. In fact, if you were at the recharge cap, it would still take them 18s to recharge, and that's after the 2.57s (LR) and 1.5s (SC) cast time. With a BU > LR > SC chain, you've got at least 13.93 seconds before you can do the same thing again. In the case where you kill every critter in the spawn with two hits (what you're looking for), what then? Sit around waiting for your three-click combo to recharge? (Of course, then you're also losing Fury)
LR (slotted with 3x lv50 Damage IOs) with 90% Fury, saturated AAO and Build Up deals 699.46 damage
SC (slotted with 3x lv50 Damage IOs) with 90% Fury, saturated AAO and Build Up deals 524.59 damage
Level 54 lieutenants have a base 867.4 hp.
So yes, assuming your target doesn't have modified HP nor resistance to Smashing/Energy, you could kill the Minions/Lieutenants in one hit. In fact, the same applies if you remove AAO and reduce Fury to 47%. But then you're back to the "when you miss" and the problem of recharge.
In short: being a one-trick pony is not a good idea. LR and SC are nice powers, but they're not an attack chain.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Lastly, I'm not sure if Mids reflect this, but pseudopet attacks (in this case, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge) has a max damage cap of 400%. Given 100% base, 65% AAO, 95% enhancement and 140% fury, you've already capped out damage from lightning rod and shield charge. Your buildup is 100% wasted in the majority of cases, along with any damage inspirations etc..
EDIT: assuming you're using buildup for Lightning rod and Shield Charge only. Your other attacks like Thunder Strike will still use the buildup effectively, and it also does provide to-hit bonuses, which counts for something, I guess.
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Chances are if he built up ridiculous amounts of recharge, he would also have more than enough acc for +4s at 95%. It's probably one of the easier goals to achieve. Unless you slot your powers poorly. |
Originally Posted by Signpost
and it also does provide to-hit bonuses, which counts for something, I guess.
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Elec/Shield is a great AoE lawnmower, but it's a terrible waste if you're not going to use anything other than SC/LR. I use one of those plus Thunder Strike and Ball Lightning on each spawn, mop it up and move on to next one. That way I always have one of them up and it takes me not too long to clear a spawn of minions/lieutenants.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Sure, but some mobs also use elude, force fields, to-hit debuffs, etc. |
Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku
Chances are if he built up ridiculous amounts of recharge, he would also have more than enough acc for +4s at 95%. It's probably one of the easier goals to achieve. Unless you slot your powers poorly.
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He said he was farming the Battle Maiden map, so there's not much need to worry about that.|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Sure, but some mobs also use elude, force fields, to-hit debuffs, etc.
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To the OP - elec/shield (brute or scrapper, heck, even tank) is perfectly fine as a farmer. You will want to soft cap defense to all 3 positions (45% to melee, range, and AoE), as well as pick up as much recharge as possible. In doing so, you should pick up enough additional accuracy to hit +4 mobs reliably.
To farm efficiently, you can't be standing around waiting on BU/LR/SC to come off cooldown, you need to keep moving and defeating spawns. So your other attacks will come in to play.
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This is the reason why Elec/Shield is subpar on Brutes, those powersets are better suited for Scrappers
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Originally Posted by Signpost
Lastly, I'm not sure if Mids reflect this, but pseudopet attacks (in this case, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge) has a max damage cap of 400%. Given 100% base, 65% AAO, 95% enhancement and 140% fury, you've already capped out damage from lightning rod and shield charge. Your buildup is 100% wasted in the majority of cases, along with any damage inspirations etc.
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Also remember the target cap on powers. I often run into spawns with more enemies than my AoEs are allowed to target.
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Originally Posted by Jordon_Justice
really? because i was looking at the numbers and at:
90% fury, and fully saturated AOO hitting build up right before i hit those two powers it would be the equivalent to doing something absurd like 1200 damage? is that not quite enough? |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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It's subpar because it's equal to another AT? |
Originally Posted by Silverado
This is the reason why Elec/Shield is subpar on Brutes, those powersets are better suited for Scrappers
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Brutes have lower base damage than a tank. A tank with 260% damage bonus would do more damage on a shield charge than a brute with 300% (or more) damage bonus.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
It's subpar because it's equal to another AT?
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A tank using a single red inspiration, along with buildup, fully saturated AAO, and IOed Shield charge, will do more damage on a shield charge than a brute no matter how many reds he gobbles up, regardless of fury, irrespective of rage, even with buildup.
Or in short, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge on brutes are sub-par compared to tanks and scrappers.
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Where the heck are you coming from? The conversation so far:|
Originally Posted by Signpost
Brutes have lower base damage than a tank. A tank with 260% damage bonus would do more damage on a shield charge than a brute with 300% (or more) damage bonus.
A tank using a single red inspiration, along with buildup, fully saturated AAO, and IOed Shield charge, will do more damage on a shield charge than a brute no matter how many reds he gobbles up, regardless of fury, irrespective of rage, even with buildup. Or in short, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge on brutes are sub-par compared to tanks and scrappers. |
Signpost: 'These powers use the pet damage cap.'
Silverado: 'That's why these powers are bad for Brutes.'
Fleeting Whisper: 'They're bad because they max out the same for everyone?'
Signpost: 'It's because Brutes have a lower base damage'
I mean, seriously... what? Brute base damage has nothing to do with it, especially in a topic about maxing out a Brute's damage (being at either the pet cap or the Brute cap). I'm seriously confused as to why you're bringing it up.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Because if you are making a shield/elec farmer who only plans to buildup-shieldcharge-lightningrod, a tank would be better than a brute (let alone a scrapper).
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Where the heck are you coming from? The conversation so far:
Signpost: 'These powers use the pet damage cap.' Silverado: 'That's why these powers are bad for Brutes.' Fleeting Whisper: 'They're bad because they max out the same for everyone?' Signpost: 'It's because Brutes have a lower base damage' I mean, seriously... what? Brute base damage has nothing to do with it, especially in a topic about maxing out a Brute's damage (being at either the pet cap or the Brute cap). I'm seriously confused as to why you're bringing it up. |
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If you're at the cap, what does it matter? If Tanker/Scrapper is good, and Brute is the same as Tanker/Scrapper, then Brute cannot be bad.
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Originally Posted by Signpost
Because if you are making a shield/elec farmer who only plans to buildup-shieldcharge-lightningrod, a tank would be better than a brute (let alone a scrapper).
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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The brute is worse than the tank/scrapper, not the same, when comparing with Shield Charge and Lightning Rod. Tanks are easier to softcap, leaving more slots for adding more recharge, along with slightly more damage. Scrappers just do more damage.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
If you're at the cap, what does it matter? If Tanker/Scrapper is good, and Brute is the same as Tanker/Scrapper, then Brute cannot be bad.
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My anecdotal advice: I have both fire/shield and Elec/shield scrappers. If you only intend on farming leuts and minions, fine. I would not use LR and SC on each spawn; that's too slow. Herd them up > Build-up > LR or SC > Thunder strike and single target powers for w/e is left (including chain induction - get all powers but the hand clap and taunt, IMO)
Its been my experience that although fire/shield doesnt have as much AOE burst damage as elec, it has *enough* plus a great single target chain to more quickly deal with left-overs and thus is my preferred build for all content (including both farming, all soloing, and teaming). It is a very well rounded build, but if you think you will enjoy elec/fire more, go with that - ALWAYS GO WITH WHAT U LIKE. A farm toon is likely going to be played for hours and hours and hours....
Edit: Last thing: I like Force-feedback procs. Elec/shield can have 3, and mine four with energy torrent from body mastery. I find they get my big hitters back faster - I doubt its productive to have 4 (maybe one in thunder strike and one in torrent).
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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I'll take this one.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
If you're at the cap, what does it matter? If Tanker/Scrapper is good, and Brute is the same as Tanker/Scrapper, then Brute cannot be bad.
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Every AT has what are called Damage Scalars, which is a measure and multiplier of the base damage of their attack powers.
For melee:
Scrappers have 1.125;
Tanks have 0.8.
Brutes have 0.75.
Brutes deliberately have a low damage scalar in anticipation of their damage being enhanced by Fury.
Now, you're also aware that each AT has a damage cap:
Scrappers have 500%
Tanks have 400%
Brutes have 775%
And at their respective caps, Brutes do slightly less damage than Scrappers. However, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge are what are termed pseudopet attacks, which generate additional temporary entities which produce the attack effect. Or something along those lines. Bottom line, for purposes of this conversation, Pseudopets have a damage cap of 400% regardless of the AT generating them.
So, yes, they all cap out at 400%. But, 400% of a Brute's relatively weak damage scalar is drastically less than 400% of a Scrapper's damage scalar.
4.00 X 1.125 = 4.5
4.00 x 0.75 = 3.0
2/3rds as much, even.
Ergo, Lightning Rod and Shield Charge are stronger powers when used by Scrappers, and these are easy caps for a Scrapper to approach between AAO, enhancements and Build Up. The Brute's large damage bonuses will be frequently wasted against the pseudopet's cap.
Hello everyone, recently I have made an elec/shield brute for hopefully what will be my purple farmer, I have a few goals and I need you guys to help me reach them...
1. I plan on pretty much only hitting build then both shield charge and lightning rod, whats the highest setting possible for me to clear an entire mob with these two powers? I will not be fighting bosses and i will be running the battle maiden map. so basically with that combination be able to run +1,2,3, or 4 x 8?
2.if i were to be hitting mobs +4 of me with those powers, what level of total ACC would I need to have in my powers to get to the 95% cap?
3. third and finally, how effective overall do you guys think this combination would be farming for recipes?
Jordon Justice