We need more tanker primaries.


Acemace

 

Posted

I would like to see Kinetic Armor.

Maybe give it some kind of toggle selection system which will change your density. Low density for positional defense with a movement/recharge bonus, high density for high resists and a movement/recharge debuff with a damage bonus, and extremely high density for a phase/hold power like Hibernate.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
I would like to see Kinetic Armor.

Maybe give it some kind of toggle selection system which will change your density. Low density for fast movement and recharge with positional defense, high density for high resists and slow movement/recharge with high damage, and extremely high density for a phase/hold power like Hibernate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0gm0R9I1aQ

(bwoing fwip)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
I would like to see Kinetic Armor.

Maybe give it some kind of toggle selection system which will change your density. Low density for positional defense with a movement/recharge bonus, high density for high resists and a movement/recharge debuff with a damage bonus, and extremely high density for a phase/hold power like Hibernate.
*points you over to the Brute Forum and then points you to Energy Aura*


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
*points you over to the Brute Forum and then points you to Energy Aura*
Was that really necessary?

Energy Aura doesn't resemble what I suggested one bit. It's a strictly typed defense set with a solid self heal and endurance management. Just having a power called Kinetic Shield doesn't make the entire powerset kinetic manipulation based.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
I'm confused
One of the kinetics powers is repel. It violently forces all enemies away from you.

The kinetic melee power set absorbs enemy damage as an effect debuff, and powers up your own attacks.

Ergo, a Kinetic Armor set, in keeping with the taking something and sending it back, would be about bwoing fwipping. Attacks against Kinetic Armor would bounce back and affect the enemy.

This could actually lead to some interesting armor possibilities with the tech system used in powers like Electric Control's jolting chain, where one power effect can generate a completely different power effect.

A kinetic Armor's damage aura would be based on the type of incoming damage. Smashing attacks generate smashing damage. Lethal attacks generate lethal damage. Fire attacks generate fire damage. Cold attacks generate cold damage. And so on and so forth.

Some other interesting capabilities could also be added. A kinetic armor's anti-mez could turn around and influence the melee attacks, similar to how fiery embrace boosts melee attacks. So if a kinetic armor gets hit with holds, sleeps, immobilizes, or stuns, their attacks gain a chance to do that mez effect back on an enemy. The higher the mez count on the kinetic armor power, the stronger the chance for a mez effect on the attack power. This could be accomplished... I think... through the connection link :: Mez Power in-coming = 10% Mez Chance -- stacking allowed :: So getting hit with 3 hold powers would generate a 30% chance for melee attacks to generate a hold.

For armors, the set would probably be in the range of Dark Armor resistance, with emphasis on smashing / energy as the strongest native resisted, based on the presence of Smashing / Energy in increased density.

For a self heal, the player gets a weak pulse, sort of like Dark Regeneration. The more enemies in range of the pulse, the more health is pulsed back. Where this would differ from Dark Regeneration is that all team-mates within melee range would also benefit from the pulse, giving the kinetic armor the ability to heal team-mates as well as themselves.

I'd probably do the same with endurance recovery. A weak pulse with a to-hit, but team-mates benefit from the pulses as well as the kinetic armor user.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Was that really necessary?

Energy Aura doesn't resemble what I suggested one bit. It's a strictly typed defense set with a solid self heal and endurance management. Just having a power called Kinetic Shield doesn't make the entire powerset kinetic manipulation based.
Except, if you look at it, it kind of is. It's visually thematic to Kinetic Melee, the power descriptions specify altering the way projectiles/attacks arc around you, and the reason it won't happen is because Energy Aura exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
The kinetic melee power set absorbs enemy damage as an effect debuff, and powers up your own attacks.
Wrong again, je_saist. The Kinetic Melee tool Power Siphon feeds off of YOUR attacks to make a pseudo-snowball effect; the more you successfully land attacks the more damage you do (up to 5 times of course).


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Wrong again, je_saist. The Kinetic Melee tool Power Siphon feeds off of YOUR attacks to make a pseudo-snowball effect; the more you successfully land attacks the more damage you do (up to 5 times of course).
Um. Kinetic Melee attacks do a damage -debuff: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Kinetic_Melee

It's tagged under: Foe -DMG

So I'm sorry. What I typed:

Quote:
The kinetic melee power set absorbs enemy damage as an effect debuff (Foe -DMG), and powers up your own attacks.(Power Siphon Self: +To Hit, +Special)
Is correct. I'm right. As usual.

Nice try at trolling me though.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Except, if you look at it, it kind of is. It's visually thematic to Kinetic Melee, the power descriptions specify altering the way projectiles/attacks arc around you, and the reason it won't happen is because Energy Aura exists.
Where is this specified? Most of the descriptions are about using different forms of energy to deflect attacks and not change their force and trajectory through kinetic manipulation.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Um. Kinetic Melee attacks do a damage -debuff: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Kinetic_Melee

It's tagged under: Foe -DMG

So I'm sorry. What I typed:



Is correct. I'm right. As usual.

Nice try at trolling me though.
But if you look at the actual mechanics of the power the damage you gain is completely dependent on landing attacks after activating Power Siphon. So thematically, yeah, you're right. In the actual game, it still relies on successful hits.

EDIT: Without any further clarification, your post still comes off as incorrect. Besides, the set doesn't "absorb damage". On a tanker, the debuff value it -7% damage per attack. Since your damage isn't boosted by 7%, that's not absorption, it's just a debuff.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Well, if this is a comparison between how many Primary picks the various ATs have, Blasters, Corruptors and Defenders all have 10, while Dominators and Controllers each have 7. So while Tankers don't have the most choices at 8, they don't have the least, either.

That said, I'd like to see a Sonic or Radiation Melee/Defense combo, and there needs to be a Psi Melee to go with Willpower. When you start to go into new crazy ways of mitigating damage, though, well, other meleers could benefit from that as well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post

Against All Odds absorbs enemy damage as an effect debuff, and powers up your own attacks.
Fix'd that for ya.

KM attacks debuff the enemies damage regardless of whether or not Power Siphon is active. Like Nalrok said, all PS does is make each sequential attack stronger (up to 5).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
Well, if this is a comparison between how many Primary picks the various ATs have, Blasters, Corruptors and Defenders all have 10, while Dominators and Controllers each have 7. So while Tankers don't have the most choices at 8, they don't have the least, either.

That said, I'd like to see a Sonic or Radiation Melee/Defense combo, and there needs to be a Psi Melee to go with Willpower. When you start to go into new crazy ways of mitigating damage, though, well, other meleers could benefit from that as well.
A minor correction: Controllers have 8. Fire, Ice, Earth, Elec, Mind, Grav, Illusion, Plant. But we need MOAR!


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

My dream of kinetic armor was always more like Aikido-ish. I.E. you are able to redirect incoming attacks back to your enemies. The enemies that hit you harder power your attacks...like a dynamice build-up. I could see this playstyle being very fun. So the armor would be reasonable but survival would rely on dealing out the damage for surivival. Hope I explained that okay.

Also, to the OP- Ever tried Shield/Stone? It is the one tank I keep going back to lately now that I solved my endurance woes. I know others with this build exist but I never see them. Also, people are always curious about it b/c it is fairly uncommon. It does not play like any other tank I have and the mitigation is so fun and makes it a very "tanky" tank.


 

Posted

Looking at the design space in this game, they seem to be treating the defensive
sets as combinations of 'major' and 'minor' mechanics.

Invulnerability -- Major in Resistance, minor in defense.
Stone Armor -- Major in Resistance and Defense.
Dark Armor -- Major in Resistance, Mitigation, and Self-Healing.
Ice Armor -- Major in Defense and Mitigation.
Willpower -- Major in Self-healing, minor in defense and resistance.
Shield -- Major in Defense, minor in offensive boosts.
Fire Armor -- Major in Resistance, minor in offensive boosts.
Electric Armor -- Major in Resistance, minor in endurance management.

And let's include the wider possibilities of non-tank defense sets:

Regeneration -- Major in Self-healing, minor in resistance.
Super Reflexes -- Major in Defense, minor in resistance.
Energy Aura -- Major in Defense, minor in resistance and end management.

It looks like they chose the non-tank defenses to focus on one mechanic, and then tacked on some resistance to adjust their balance.

All of the sets except Super Reflexes also have some kind of healing mechanic (shield has a +health power), but only in the case of Regen, Willpower, and Dark Armor are they central to the usability of the powerset. (Ice and Stone tanks might disagree with me here.)

So what combinations are left unused?

Self-healing + offensive boosts; a Regen clone with self-buffs. Didn't someone post a 'Berserker' powerset? Probably not defensive enough for tankers, though.

Resistance + Mitigation with no self-healing? That might make a good 'Force Field' or 'Psi Armor' set.

Major in both Defense and Self-healing? Might be overpowered. Both of those mechanics are tricky to balance.

Self-Healing + Mitigation with no resistance or defense? I picture this as a good 'stretchy' powerset, with stuns and knockdowns. Probably not defensive enough for a tank.

...and that's about it. I don't see many combinations that wouldn't be duplicates of what we already have.

I like the idea posted above of an 'Ablative Armor' set, using the Mastermind mechanic of summoning some kind of minions to soak up damage for you. That's thinking out of the box. We need more ideas like that if we want to expand the options available to tankers.


...
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Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Is correct. I'm right. As usual.
Like when you said tanks can't solo AV's? Were you right when you said that?

Quote:
Nice try at trolling me though.
Nah, he was just pointing out how your phrasing of the set was incorrect. You may have a grasp of the mechanics and numbers behind the powers, but what you said thematically does not fit what is going on.

By the way, I don't expect je_saist will bother making anymore comments in this thread now that too many have pointed out his error. It's just his style.

To the OP: Well, for the longest time, tankers only had 4 primaries. Then there was an explosion of new sets, which we should be thankful for. But at the same time, I can't help but throw in a "/signed".

*shrug* What can I say? I love me some tank!


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
Self-healing + offensive boosts; a Regen clone with self-buffs. Didn't someone post a 'Berserker' powerset? Probably not defensive enough for tankers, though.
That'd be me. Please give the link in my signature a read, it's not actually a self healing set. My idea revolves around scaling resistance, a little bit of regen, some knockdown mitigation, scaling damage buff, and a Tier Nine like No Other.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
Which is it, man?!
The line "I have almost as many controllers as tanks." is the correct one. After saying I had more controllers, I actually went and counted. I came back and edited my post, but missed the earlier reference. I have more tanks than any other AT.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylas View Post
Like when you said tanks can't solo AV's? Were you right when you said that?
Or when he said all tanks can get Resist Energies? Or that Assassin Strike was useless for a Stalker's burst damage? Or that Dark Armor is a total waste and can't tank? Or that Dark Armor is what gave rise to the Stalker Archetype? Or that Stealth will negate aggro?


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
Shield -- Major in Defense, minor in offensive boosts.
Don't forget, Shield Defense ALSO minors in resistance; Defiance has 15% S/L for tanks and True Grit has 15% to everything else save Psi.


 

Posted

PvP







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