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I think it's because generally fighklub is toe to toe and you dont really care about any other settings but no heal decay/noinsps.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
Why do you fight with travel suppression on? Is it so scrappers can't kite with the fire epic?
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Hotel Desk Guy
@Italian-o
Try? There is no try. Do or do not.
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I just don't get the purpose of limiting players' movements.
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Originally Posted by IceGenerator
I think it's because generally fighklub is toe to toe and you dont really care about any other settings but no heal decay/noinsps.
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Its not a matter of limiting movements as it is a matter of not worried about the setting itself much at all. Travel doesnt matter typically in a fightklub if your doing toe to toe.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I just don't get the purpose of limiting players' movements.
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Hotel Desk Guy
@Italian-o
Try? There is no try. Do or do not.
I think it's a matter of limiting movement so scrappers cannot kite with blaze mastery.
Is Fossilize still pretty good in PvP?
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So there is literally zero evasion?
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Originally Posted by IceGenerator
Its not a matter of limiting movements as it is a matter of not worried about the setting itself much at all. Travel doesnt matter typically in a fightklub if your doing toe to toe.
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There tends not to be yeah...|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
So there is literally zero evasion?
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Personally I am fine with anything goes once in there. The reason there tends to be no evasion is based in roleplaying (imo) which gave birth to FightClub. The idea of two superpowered beings slugging it out comes from comic book battles (superhero cartoons) everywhere and because of that FightClubbers take mostly only melee attacks.
Since they've only for the most part got melee attacks the most evasion you usually see is to step aside to use aid self or buy a second or two for a heal/phase/hiber to refresh. Add to that melee toons can't really get a decent ranged attack chain that is going to kill a FightClubber by traditional ranged evasion + attack style. By doing so they tend to gimp their builds in survivability or offensive capabilities (hiber or +recovery or +acc/+tohit/-defense.)
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I dunno. I can think of heroes that are sluggers, but nonetheless rely on evasion in order to stay alive. (Batman/Spiderman/Captain America/etc.) I always thought fiteklubbers were people who just didn't like the fast-paced nature of COH's PVP. Which is fair enough, it's obviously not for everyone.
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
There tends not to be yeah...
Personally I am fine with anything goes once in there. The reason there tends to be no evasion is based in roleplaying (imo) which gave birth to FightClub. The idea of two superpowered beings slugging it out comes from comic book battles (superhero cartoons) everywhere and because of that FightClubbers take mostly only melee attacks. Since they've only for the most part got melee attacks the most evasion you usually see is to step aside to use aid self or buy a second or two for a heal/phase/hiber to refresh. Add to that melee toons can't really get a decent ranged attack chain that is going to kill a FightClubber by traditional ranged evasion + attack style. By doing so they tend to gimp their builds in survivability or offensive capabilities (hiber or +recovery or +acc/+tohit/-defense.) |
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To me those three heroes are all hand to hand combatants who avoid incoming attacks by using super reflexes but use melee attacks for damage (and just like all toons in COX they have access to ranged attacks but just like fightclubbers tend to use melee damage to subdue their opponents.) Evasion that we typically use in COX, as you know, involves using the terrain to block your opponents line of sight to avoid incoming damage.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I dunno. I can think of heroes that are sluggers, but nonetheless rely on evasion in order to stay alive. (Batman/Spiderman/Captain America/etc.) I always thought fiteklubbers were people who just didn't like the fast-paced nature of COH's PVP. Which is fair enough, it's obviously not for everyone.
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IMO LoS only matters when evading ranged attacks. When evading melee attacks all you have to do is get out of melee range. This would basically be stepping/jumping/running - aka the sort of thing Batman/Spiderman/Captain America do...they don't stand still. They also utilize ranged attacks to subdue their foes (web/batarangs/the shield.) So I dunno...I'm not really seeing the comic book comparison here.|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
To me those three heroes are all hand to hand combatants who avoid incoming attacks by using super reflexes but use melee attacks for damage (and just like all toons in COX they have access to ranged attacks but just like fightclubbers tend to use melee damage to subdue their opponents.) Evasion that we typically use in COX, as you know, involves using the terrain to block your opponents line of sight to avoid incoming damage.
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The only guys I can really imagine doing fiteklubbing in comics would be the Hulk/Juggernaut types. Most other comic book fights tends to utilize travel powers in some way.
As an aside. Do you know if INV/SS tanks are still any good for fiteklubbing? I've got one collecting dust and thought of bringing him back.
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I think it would be decent yeah if you built for some SL defense and incarnate it out.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
IMO LoS only matters when evading ranged attacks. When evading melee attacks all you have to do is get out of melee range. This would basically be stepping/jumping/running - aka the sort of thing Batman/Spiderman/Captain America do...they don't stand still. They also utilize ranged attacks to subdue their foes (web/batarangs/the shield.) So I dunno...I'm not really seeing the comic book comparison here.
The only guys I can really imagine doing fiteklubbing in comics would be the Hulk/Juggernaut types. Most other comic book fights tends to utilize travel powers in some way. As an aside. Do you know if INV/SS tanks are still any good for fiteklubbing? I've got one collecting dust and thought of bringing him back. |
I like fight clubbing because i can't do it, so it's a challenge lol. I've been on my blasters, fenders, doms, rupters for so long i figured id start doing this. But for some reason, i don't care how much money i put in a toon i find a way to lose. I made a shield/drk tank put all shield wall pvp defense set's, the pvp resist sets in tough and in the resist he had. And everyone just kills him in a few seconds, i was about to just delete him i was so mad lol. Than i see mercury running around beating people in 1v1's like it's nothing, i figured the drk set although missing damage, with some incarnate help, it would be decent, but highly survivable because of the -tohit. I made a ss/fire tank, which if i play like im on my squishies is godly, but as soon as i try to fight club, sure i can last a long time, but i always get wore down in the end. Although that was my old build before i knew about procs in SS, so i might try again.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
I watched Shark Wrangler fight Soul Taker earlier. You had two very expensive tank builds standing toe to toe going jab-jab-jab-jab-jab over and over with an occassional knockout blow and quicksand applications. Once in a while there's be a fossilize.
They were obviously great builds in terms of surviving and doing damage in a stationary manner. But I think the whole fiteclub scenario is ultimately antithetical to actually being skillful (at least as skillful as the game permits). It's rock paper scissors and the skill is coming up with the best rock. Once you get in the cage, you just tap away and try not to forget to push the right button at the right time. More like pvp NASCAR than a real fight.
I think if everyone had the same shark wrangler build, and played the same kind of cage match, it would be difficult to impossible to make any evaluation of player skill. People that were clearly incompetent would lose, but beyond that there'd be no differentiation between average and good.
I don't think fiteklubbing is that much worse than ranged duels..build still is a deciding factor although movement skill is very significant. To each his own, but I think the fact that Shark Wrangler has to offer pvp ios just to get a match is indicative that your build has solved the equation for fiteklub success so..why bother?
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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I watched that fight as well, it was about a good 20min or so, but any CoX pvp is a matter of pressing the right button on time, so that's not really a fair comparison, and in my opinion knwing the ins and outs does require some knowledge at least and knowledge translates into skill easily. I have sat in RV and killed 20+ ppl on my blaster and maybe died once hyber was down, or got spiked or something. But all those kills alot of it was while doing other real life things, meaning half way paying attention just mashing attacks until i see points.|
Originally Posted by BattleWraith
I watched Shark Wrangler fight Soul Taker earlier. You had two very expensive tank builds standing toe to toe going jab-jab-jab-jab-jab over and over with an occassional knockout blow and quicksand applications. Once in a while there's be a fossilize.
They were obviously great builds in terms of surviving and doing damage in a stationary manner. But I think the whole fiteclub scenario is ultimately antithetical to actually being skillful (at least as skillful as the game permits). It's rock paper scissors and the skill is coming up with the best rock. Once you get in the cage, you just tap away and try not to forget to push the right button at the right time. More like pvp NASCAR than a real fight. I think if everyone had the same shark wrangler build, and played the same kind of cage match, it would be difficult to impossible to make any evaluation of player skill. People that were clearly incompetent would lose, but beyond that there'd be no differentiation between average and good. I don't think fiteklubbing is that much worse than ranged duels..build still is a deciding factor although movement skill is very significant. To each his own, but I think the fact that Shark Wrangler has to offer pvp ios just to get a match is indicative that your build has solved the equation for fiteklub success so..why bother? |
Sharks build actually has attacks, that other guy he has jab, boxing and laser beam eyes, and a non used footstomp. But I'll show you where skill took place and or knowledge, i watch fights like a coach would. So the inv/ss tank fought using unstop 90% of the match he had the timing to survive the crash without inspirations, get his toggles back on, back to full hp, and end all before Shark could hit him and win for have like 0 hp.
Shark would see this and attempt to press him to no avail, and fighting in that trend would have ended in a draw. But one of the openings the tank left was after a crash he was vulnerable for about 1.5min to 2min. And that last crash Shark called out the incarnates on him and he was toast.
He however couldn't produce enough damage to kill shark, his build gimped itself VS high evasion toons, because he opted to take all the tanker primary powers and fully slotted id imagine, so it left no room for luxuries like tactics, and he ran laser beam eyes, conserve power, obviously to sustain his heavy unstop usage, but he had no focus accuracy.
So as you see, i look past the way the fight looks and i get to how they got their.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
I think you basically supported my point that the match was decided by the builds. Also maybe you're misremembering the end. Initially they agreed on no pets. Towards the end the inv tank summoned his and then shark wrangler did the same. They were the same pets and shark wrangler's build was obviously better equipped to deal with them as neither person left the cage.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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After i21 I'd give a DM/Regen brute good odds. It will be damn hard to kill, and it has a damage type and secondary effect that Invuln is not especially strong against. |
Originally Posted by DeathHarvester
what do you think could defeat my buddies brute with fight club rules?
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Street Justice might end up being a good PvP set. I don't know if anyone got around to testing it when it was still on beta, or what they determined if they did.
Basically, after i21 hits an Anything/Regen brute will be a fight clubbing monster.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Regen brutes will be hard to kill but they won't have access to hiber so they'll get killed more often than a regen scrap with hiber. Being limited to phase means they'll get chased in if the opponent has phase and will only buy them a few seconds of extra survivability. Still, the added hitpoints + regen will help a little bit. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
After i21 I'd give a DM/Regen brute good odds. It will be damn hard to kill, and it has a damage type and secondary effect that Invuln is not especially strong against.
Street Justice might end up being a good PvP set. I don't know if anyone got around to testing it when it was still on beta, or what they determined if they did. Basically, after i21 hits an Anything/Regen brute will be a fight clubbing monster. |
As far as primary goes there is only one primary worth taking on a brute and that is SS. Katana might be worth it but brutes damage is not what it used to be. DM is decent on a scrap because of the higher base damage and crits but on a brute it's crap (even buzzsawed.)
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."