Quote:
The full list of requirements for City of Heroes can be found on the NCSoft store page: https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/St...em&item_id=209|
Originally Posted by Super Firebug
I'm thinking of getting a new computer, and I took a printout of CoX's recommended PC requirements (from CoH's Going Rogue store page) into Best Buy to try to find the least-expensive computer that would run CoX. The sales guy helping me could figure out the rest of the requirements, but whether or not a computer's graphics capability was up to par was foggy. For instance, the recommended ATI is a Radeon 9600 or higher. None of the computers' descriptions gave me any clue as to which were higher, and which weren't. And the ATI cards on the shelves were like 55xx. Higher than 9600, or not? Could someone tell me how to find out what graphics cards/chips to look for? The ATI above is just used as an example; I'm not necessarily set on ATI. Thanks for your time, and for any help.
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Yes, the requirements can be confusing because they are not accurate. City of Heroes has largely two different rendering modes:
- OpenGL 1.3+
- OpenGL 3.x
So as far as your original question goes, Any computer that you can buy will run City of Heroes.
Yes. Even that $270 HP refurbished model. It will run City of Heroes.
* * *
Now, to answer one of your other question, the reason you don't see the 9600 on store shelfs any more is simple: The 9600 was a graphics card from 2003. It hasn't been in production since 2004.
* * *
Now, if you want to run City of Heroes in Ultra-Mode Graphics, you are going to need something with a bit of power under the hood than just anything off the shelf.
If you don't understand what Ultra-Mode Graphics are, I've got a whole thread explaining the different graphics features over here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219534
Your starting point for a computer that will run City of Heroes in Ultra Mode is going to be around $1000, mostly as the starting point for Ultra Mode support is the AMD RadeonHD 4850 and the Nvidia GTS 250, and you'll want something a bit more powerful than STARTING POINT.
Looking at what passes for a system selector on Best Buy's Online site, the cheapest system they list that will run City of Heroes in Ultra Mode is going to be the $999.99 Gateway FX6840-15e which has a RadeonHD 5750.
If you want to drop back by the store, the graphics cards you want in your system to run City of Heroes in Ultra Mode are:
- AMD RadeonHD 5770 or better
- Nvidia Geforce GTX 460 or better.
You can also get more help/opinions in the Technical issues thread.
Note, even the "base" card je_saist listed will, IIRC, run UM on LOW just fine, which still looks snazzy.
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Tom's Hardware - Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart (as of 12/21/2010)
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You have to remember, or maybe you didn't realize, that this game came out originally in 2004, been under development probably two years before that so the game minimum specs come from way back then.
Both ATI/AMD and nVidia changed their numbering schemes a couple of times over that period.
ATI/AMD
9xxx series
Xxxx series
X1xxx series
HD 2xxx-6xxx
nVidia
2 - 4 series (GeForce 2, GeForce 3, GeForce 4)
5xxx-9xxx series
GTx 2xx - 5xx series
The link SerialBeggar gave you ranks all these series relative to performance. It is a handy guide if you every consider upgrading from old to new to see if you are actually upgrading. Occasionally we get a post from someone who accidentally downgraded they video card because the numbering schemes change between generations.
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Quote:
That's exactly what I was talking about. With the numbering not being linear, how does one tell what will be enough, and what won't? The processor, RAM and storage are easy to figure out, but, to my knowledge, there's no standardized system of comparing one graphics chip/card against another in the store to tell if it's "enough." I was looking at a laptop that said it had "Intel HD graphics." Nothing in CoX's graphics specs said anything about Intel, so I was lost there. SerialBeggar's link looks to be a great help.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Both ATI/AMD and nVidia changed their numbering schemes a couple of times over that period.
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Um, CoX, if you guys could, occasionally, tell us what the game needs as relates to what's CURRENTLY out here in the real world, we'd appreciate it.
Thanks, all.
It's linear within the generation. However the marketing department gets this notion that changing it up shows "innovation".
Fortunately nVidia seems to have dropped the plethora of suffixes. At one point there was the 6800, 6800GS, 6800GT, 6800LE, 6800XT, 6800 Ultra and 6800 Ultra Extreme.
At least ATI/AMD has so far kept their Dx10 and up cards using the same naming convention, HD xxxx where nVidia changed it up from the 8xxx-9xxx to the GTx xxx series.
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Quote:
The GTS250 and also the 9800 and 8800 series cards which are to all intents the same card is perfectly capable of running UM with most settings maxed out at 1600x1200 and still able to return about 20 fps.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
You can also get more help/opinions in the Technical issues thread.
Note, even the "base" card je_saist listed will, IIRC, run UM on LOW just fine, which still looks snazzy. |
Even the 8600 is able to run UM above minimum. At the end of the day the what you find will work will depend on the resolution you want to run and what you consider to be a playable frame rate.
Je_Saist keeps going on that lower spec cards cannot run UM but I've yet to see any post where she states what resolution and frame rate she considers playable and there are plenty of us running with higher UM settings on cards she insists cannot do so.
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Quote:
Besides intel there are a few other (very) low end graphic chip makers on the market. Intel is know for being slow and having many compatibility issues with games. In terms of game requirements (for anything) I would skip non-Ati (now Amd) and non-Nvidia rendering systems.|
Originally Posted by Super Firebug
I was looking at a laptop that said it had "Intel HD graphics." Nothing in CoX's graphics specs said anything about Intel, so I was lost there.
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Ati/Amd hardware is roughly comparable to Nvidia hardware of the same generation. Sometimes one is ( a little) faster sometimes the other. Nvidia is know for having better driver support, so if a bug or rendering glitch shows up it is likely to be fixed by Nvidia first. Nvidia also is know for having better Open Gl drivers which is a key point if your planning to play COH.
Taking a quick look the most recent driver update I see from intel is 1/21/09. That is awful.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Fortunately nVidia seems to have dropped the plethora of suffixes
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Not completely. If you're in the market for a GTX 460 make sure you don't accidentally pick up an SE.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Forgot about that, nVidia obviously needed a price point to fill and/or a big bucket of GPUs that failed the normal 336SP test.
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According to the Ultra Mode Requirements, it says;
Quote:
and computer is a ATI® Radeon® 3100 Series, but it cannot run on Ultra Mode. Is there a difference?
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NVIDIA® GeForce 8 Series (or higher) ATI® Radeon® HD 2000 Series (or higher) . |
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Originally Posted by Sukothai
According to the Ultra Mode Requirements, it says;
and computer is a ATI® Radeon® 3100 Series, but it cannot run on Ultra Mode. Is there a difference? |
I have a laptop with an ati 3500 while it can render ultra mode, it can not do so at a playable fps. Notebook and integrated graphics often share main memory or have other details that gimp performence.
Quote:
I'd check that list above, but IIRC, your ATI 3100 would be the previous numbering scheme (which ended in the 9000 range), and HD is the new one, restarted at 1000 range.
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Originally Posted by Sukothai
According to the Ultra Mode Requirements, it says;
and computer is a ATI® Radeon® 3100 Series, but it cannot run on Ultra Mode. Is there a difference? |
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Quote:
There is a very large difference.|
Originally Posted by Sukothai
According to the Ultra Mode Requirements, it says;
and computer is a ATI® Radeon® 3100 Series, but it cannot run on Ultra Mode. Is there a difference? |
The requirement for Ultra Mode is that a Graphics Processor can execute Shader Code compiled against OpenGL 3.0 or Higher.
- Nvidia has supported OpenGL 3.0 since the Geforce 8000 series
- AMD has supported OpenGL 3.0 since the RadeonHD 2000 series
Where the Requirements are inaccurate is having a graphics card that can Process OpenGL 3.0 Code... FAST ENOUGH TO MATTER.
Key point here. Simply being able to execute the code is NOT the same thing as being able to run the code fast enough to make the game playable.
For a full listing of graphics cards that are capable of Driving Ultra Mode fast enough to matter, please see this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=248474
Specifically, this post: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...7&postcount=11
Quote:
I think he forgot to mention the HD part since ATi never did a Radeon 3100. It wouldn't make much difference given that the starting point for Ultra Mode graphics is the RadeonHD 4850.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
I'd check that list above, but IIRC, your ATI 3100 would be the previous numbering scheme (which ended in the 9000 range), and HD is the new one, restarted at 1000 range.
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That and the 3100 is an Integrated graphics chip: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=1
As far as I am aware, the only time AMD has crossed branding lines has been in the integrated / mobile market. The integrated graphics chipset 740 which was sold under Radeon 2100. The Radeon x1350 also went through a couple of changes and was rebadged as the Radeon x2300.
I cannot thank you enough for this thread. I have a ATI Radeon HD 5670 1GB and I could not figure out why I was having trouble in 'Ultra' mode. It runs Open GL 3.0, meets the specs, etc. But your explanation about the difference between being able to run OpenGL 3.0 and run it effectively answered that. I think I'd need to go up to the 5700 series for 'Ultra' if I read you correctly.
Question: should I turn off 'Ultra' completely or are there a few tweaks I could make since I am close to the minimum? Which would give me the best bang?
Thanks again for the advice and help all.
- Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 266.0 MH
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So I guess the HD part would make a difference? My laptop does not have HD built in.
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By turning down some of the ultra mode options and/or reducing your level of AA and AF you can likely get most of the ultra goodies working. Some of the big hitting options are the water reflections and view distance. There are also a fair number of options that can be set to medium instead of high or very high.
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Originally Posted by Mashuguna
I cannot thank you enough for this thread. I have a ATI Radeon HD 5670 1GB and I could not figure out why I was having trouble in 'Ultra' mode. It runs Open GL 3.0, meets the specs, etc. But your explanation about the difference between being able to run OpenGL 3.0 and run it effectively answered that. I think I'd need to go up to the 5700 series for 'Ultra' if I read you correctly.
Question: should I turn off 'Ultra' completely or are there a few tweaks I could make since I am close to the minimum? Which would give me the best bang? Thanks again for the advice and help all. - Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 266.0 MH - 4096 MBytes DDR2 - ATI Radeon HD 5670 1024 MB Mash |
Quote:
That's pretty much it. The 5670 has around 3/5 of the theoretical rendering power of a 5750: |
Originally Posted by Mashuguna
I cannot thank you enough for this thread. I have a ATI Radeon HD 5670 1GB and I could not figure out why I was having trouble in 'Ultra' mode. It runs Open GL 3.0, meets the specs, etc. But your explanation about the difference between being able to run OpenGL 3.0 and run it effectively answered that. I think I'd need to go up to the 5700 series for 'Ultra' if I read you correctly.
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- 6,200 MegaPixels versus 11,200 MegaPixels
- 15,500 MegaTexels versus 25,200 MegaTexels
Quote:
| Question: should I turn off 'Ultra' completely or are there a few tweaks I could make since I am close to the minimum? Which would give me the best bang? |
That being said, the 5670 is still way more powerful than a RadeonHD 2600:
My own laptop here can drive Low Shadow, Low Environmental Reflects, and Ultra Quality Water while maintaining a playable frame-rate.
Playable defined as: I can live with 5 frames a second if I have to
I would think you would be able to drive these Ultra Mode settings in 1280*720 with maxed classic engine settings without a problem.
Thanks for the feedback. I dialed most of the Ultra settings down into the medium range, made FSAA and AA 4x instead of 8x, toned water down to low, and I'm running at 35-45 fps. Water seemed to make a big difference - so did shadows. And when I was doing trade offs I realized that I like the Low water just fine - but I do not like having zero shadows. So I traded water quality for 'medium' shadows and I like the look.
Thanks for the advice on where to look specifically for FPS trade offs - it can be confusing - and I am a data analyst by profession 
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
But that's the thing, only you can determine what's an acceptable tradeoff between pretty and frame rate.
For instance for me, I seriously dislike depth of field, so I keep it off giving me a little extra frame rate that I could try to spend on bumping water up a notch or increase World Detail a bit. But it's your call. Some people don't mind if the frame rate drops below 20, others would get upset if it drops below 45.
I do know that World Detail, more so now when you have UM turned on, can seriously affect frame rate. Before UM it was just the maximum draw distance and on a decent video card many people were able to turn it up to 200%. However UM now uses the same setting to determine which objects cast shadows and are reflected in water. So with UM I know that I had to turn it back down to 100%, less in some zones.
Again, with the variety of CPU and Video Cards configurations as well as what frame rate you find acceptable, it's difficult to put together a performance guild on the subject.
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I could use some suggestions. I have to replace my laptop, and I don't have much money to spend on it. But I'd like to improve my COH experience and get rid of my constant disconnects. Maybe play Star Trek Online too. My little laptop is about 3-4 years old with something called an Intel Extreme Grapahics 2 (integrated, I think but I dont really know). Yeah, I got what I could afford at the time in desperation.
I'm hoping to play at least somewhat in UM, but it doesn't have to be ALL the bells and whistles...I'm sure it wont take much to improve on what I have. But I wnat to do my best for probably under $1K (hey, its what I can afford).
The sales going on now have alot of systems with Radeon 5650 boards. From what I'm reading on here, and that nice list that was made, this wont let me run ALL the UM goodies, but I can run it at above "minimum." and may be ok, considering I won't even try it on my current laptop. What performance I'm looking for...well, I can't currently play in large teams since my screen freezes up. Need to avoid Ritki invasions too. I'd like to be able to do those things so I can join task forces. I'm looking at this HP Pavillion dvt7 with a Radeon 5650 (they try to sell it wiht a 5470--how's that gonna work?) I find it really annoying of these companies to lable everthing "serious super computing power" or some such, even the lowest end products.
Are these graphic cards good to use for CoX?
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First, the words laptop, inexpensive and Ultramode are nearly mutually exclusive.|
Originally Posted by cwayne
I could use some suggestions. I have to replace my laptop, and I don't have much money to spend on it. But I'd like to improve my COH experience and get rid of my constant disconnects. Maybe play Star Trek Online too. My little laptop is about 3-4 years old with something called an Intel Extreme Grapahics 2 (integrated, I think but I dont really know). Yeah, I got what I could afford at the time in desperation.
I'm hoping to play at least somewhat in UM, but it doesn't have to be ALL the bells and whistles...I'm sure it wont take much to improve on what I have. But I wnat to do my best for probably under $1K (hey, its what I can afford). The sales going on now have alot of systems with Radeon 5650 boards. From what I'm reading on here, and that nice list that was made, this wont let me run ALL the UM goodies, but I can run it at above "minimum." and may be ok, considering I won't even try it on my current laptop. What performance I'm looking for...well, I can't currently play in large teams since my screen freezes up. Need to avoid Ritki invasions too. I'd like to be able to do those things so I can join task forces. I'm looking at this HP Pavillion dvt7 with a Radeon 5650 (they try to sell it wiht a 5470--how's that gonna work?) I find it really annoying of these companies to lable everthing "serious super computing power" or some such, even the lowest end products. |
Second, a laptop graphics "card" with the same designation as a desktop one is considerably less powerful. Example, the laptop version of the HD 5870 falls between the desktop HD 5750 and 5770 in performance.
The 5650 you are looking at is less powerful than a desktop HD 5570, which is far below the minimum for Ultramode but should give you excellent performance otherwise, at least compared to Intel integrated video.
Third, manufacturers have similarly named models, each a little different, just as there could be dozens of variations of a Toyota Corolla, besides color. So I'm not surprised if there are multiple HP DVT7 models with different graphics.
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I'm thinking of getting a new computer, and I took a printout of CoX's recommended PC requirements (from CoH's Going Rogue store page) into Best Buy to try to find the least-expensive computer that would run CoX. The sales guy helping me could figure out the rest of the requirements, but whether or not a computer's graphics capability was up to par was foggy. For instance, the recommended ATI is a Radeon 9600 or higher. None of the computers' descriptions gave me any clue as to which were higher, and which weren't. And the ATI cards on the shelves were like 55xx. Higher than 9600, or not? Could someone tell me how to find out what graphics cards/chips to look for? The ATI above is just used as an example; I'm not necessarily set on ATI. Thanks for your time, and for any help.