Is DP THAT bad? My Findings Thus Far...
My problem wit Dp is not Dp but the blaster secondaries that dont fit a "Natural" gunslingin guy. im sure you have noticed in pretoria the dp NPC's that also use MA, I want that !!! ohhh the fun of executioner shot + crane kick
I would love a martial arts based Blaster secondary... or failing that, a "no FX" version of Energy Manipulation so we can have non-glowing punches.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
It's certainly outside the realm of how most people play, and it's far outside of what the game is actually balanced around (SOs).
I personally believe all Blasters (except possibly pure TF builds) need a solid single target attack chain. You need your tier 1 and tier 2 blasts because you will be mezzed frequently (again, unless you are only teaming) and you need something else with good DPA to fill out a chain because AVs, EBs, bosses, and so on are targets that need high DPS. Executioner's Shot is actually about on par with Power Burst if using Incendiary ammo, and I can't imagine not using Power Burst on my Energy/Energy Blaster. After all, you'll never have an AoE-only attack chain so you need to be doing something while waiting for Empty Clips and Bullet Rain to recharge, and Piercing Rounds isn't going to fill that gap by itself. You'll pretty much have to be using at least Dual Wield unless you want to run in and punch stuff... |
DP is one of the four sets that has a tier 2 blast recharging in six seconds or less, base. The others are archery, fire, and sonic. Though fire is the undisputed champ of single target, its tier 2 blast and archery's are at the bottom of the barrel for blaster sets as they were never normalized with the rest of them and do less than one damage scale per second. Just as fire makes up for this with blaze, to a lesser extent archery makes up for it with blazing arrow, yet without doing the math I have a feeling that blazing arrow simply pushes archery closer to breaking even, rather than zipping ahead. We'll get to sonic in a moment.
DP's first two blasts, like most other sets, do almost exactly one damage scale per second. This means that it is the only set with a full power tier 2 blast that does not recharge in eight seconds. The reason this makes any difference becomes more clear when we look at the average tier 3 blast.
Sonic, rad, and energy do what amounts to slightly more than one damage scale per second, and by slightly I mean about five percent. Elec and assault rifle don't have tier 3 blasts to begin with. Archery's tier 3 blast does a decent chunk more than that but it's tier 1 and tier 2 blasts do noticeably less than 1 ds/sec so the advantage diminishes. The only sets with tier 3s clearly worth maximizing the use of are archery, fire, ice and funnily enough, psy.
For the rest, dp included, the tier 3 does pretty much the same dpa as the tiers 1 and 2. To put it another way, their tier 3s do less than a non-purple proc's worth of average bonus damage. Now we come back to the recharge times. Any set can get its tier 1 back up fast enough to fire it back to back with the tier 2 with virtually no investment. The only sets that can get the tier 2 recharged fast enough to fire it back to back with the tier 1 with less than insane recharge are fire, archery, sonic, and dp. Fire wouldn't want to, archery wouldn't want to, I believe with blaster -res values sonic wouldn't want to chain just its tiers 1 and 2 either, and yet... dp kind of would.
And so it can! Sure it takes some ioing but my blaster is a speed boost away from having gapless tier 1 and 2 blasts, meaning if I could be bothered to buy some purples I'd be there, and I'd be doing basically the same single target damage as energy, sonic and rad, and better damage than assault rifle and elec. All of this with only two powers taken and slotted, and it also is the only set that can do full "standard" single target damage while mezzed.
That's better than a sharp stick in the eye, that is.
And so it can! Sure it takes some ioing but my blaster is a speed boost away from having gapless tier 1 and 2 blasts, meaning if I could be bothered to buy some purples I'd be there, and I'd be doing basically the same single target damage as energy, sonic and rad, and better damage than assault rifle and elec. All of this with only two powers taken and slotted, and it also is the only set that can do full "standard" single target damage while mezzed.
That's better than a sharp stick in the eye, that is. |
Edit: I don't know that the solution to having a lackluster Executioner's is to stack recharge to the exclusion of all else to skip it. The result is no survivability and you still have an average attack chain at best.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I believe they should have altered the Executioner's Shot animation to be 55-65 frames before it went live. It is harder to make that type of change now. Cryo Rounds should get a buff.
That being said, Pistols is a well rounded, solid blast set. It works great for all the ATs with access to it and does not need any changes to be on par with the other blast sets. It has its pros and cons just like all the other sets and some people will like it and others will not.
No one should ever think they are not producing enough damage when using Pistols. If you like the look of the animations, you can play this set and know that your character is doing its job just fine.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
To have a gapless attack chain with only tier 1 and tier 2 you'd have to have Dual Wield recharge is 1.188 seconds. Isn't that impossible due to the recharge cap?.
|
For optimum ST DPS every Blaster set must take a third attack, period. Dual Pistols gets closer to optimum than most with only the two basic shots, but it still performs better with Executioner's than without it... provided you don't mind getting close. But at least you only give up a few percent damage to stay at long range with a high recharge build, most sets give up more.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Ah okay, I guess I was remembering the salad days of the first mission of the alpha slot arc, and probably have to mix in *aoe of choice* when speed boosted. It still gives better results while mezzed than most sets and still does mid-range single target with two powers and not a heck of a lot of recharge. Even with a power to spare I'd most likely skip executioner's shot if I were shooting for single target performance as I don't feel that getting close is particularly worth it since the rest of the set does function so well at 80+ feet, 50-60 when emptying one's clips.
[Deleting duplicate post ]
I wanted to see what I could do with a DP Blaster build. I built a prelim build for DP / Mental and am pretty sure there is no way this character could be all that bad.
One thing about the Mental secondary vs DP primary I'm not too sure about is which attacks do the best damage overall. I suspect Empty Clips could/should be replaced with Psychic Scream. I dont know anything at all about Soul Tentacles. It was just a generic power that happened to have immob. In the event that it's better than another blast I'd just move the slots around again.
In terms of strategy, if I was this guy solo I'd stealth in with World of Confusion on and wait for it to hit a few enemies, Drain Psyche, then quickly Hover, Build Up, Hail of Bullets followed by Psychic Shockwave and Bullet Rain. That would deal something like 850 + 266 + 248 = 1364 damage assuming Lethal rounds, more if Incendiary. The problem power is actually Psy Shockwave since it doesn't work as well while hovering. I have lots of experience hover-Hailing on my DP/Dark Corruptor and it works very well.
I tried two or three different APPs and PPPs for this build. I picked Soul just because I have experience with using it. World of Confusion and Opp Gloom are probably overkill, but Opp Gloom works really well when you're hovering barely overhead (12ft radius). On teams I'd probably leave Opp Gloom running all the time to make surviving close range easier. The main risk again being less Hail of Bullets and more Psy Shockwave and maybe Drain Psyche.
Single target damage could be a little better, but with Subdual to fill in the attack chain gaps its not quite as bad as some would project. There certainly isn't any dead air time. This is one advantage Blasters have over Defenders and Corruptors.
[EDIT: Removed the Gravity/Empathy build and replaced it with the correct one. As a point of reference tho, Gravity Control does have significantly worse AoE and single target damage than DP ]
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
DP Mental: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Mental Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dual Wield -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Subdual -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Empty Clips -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(39), Posi-Dmg/Rng(39)
Level 4: Pistols -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Swap Ammo
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dam%(19), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(40), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 12: Suppressive Fire -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(13), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(13), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Concentration -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Nictus-Acc/Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 22: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(23), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(23), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(42), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(42), Stpfy-KB%(43)
Level 24: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Piercing Rounds -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Dmg-I(27)
Level 28: World of Confusion -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(29), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(29), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(31), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(31), CoPers-Conf%(33)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(45)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Armgdn-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Weave -- RedFtn-EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(42), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 44: Oppressive Gloom -- Amaze-ToHitDeb%(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(46), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(46), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(48), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(48)
Level 47: Soul Storm -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(48), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Soul Tentacles -- Acc-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 8.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 7.25% Defense(Smashing)
- 7.25% Defense(Lethal)
- 7.25% Defense(Fire)
- 7.25% Defense(Cold)
- 30.69% Defense(Energy)
- 30.69% Defense(Negative)
- 6% Defense(Psionic)
- 8.5% Defense(Melee)
- 34.75% Defense(Ranged)
- 8.5% Defense(AoE)
- 83.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 69% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3% Enhancement(Stun)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 17% FlySpeed
- 45.18 HP (3.749%) HitPoints
- 17% JumpHeight
- 17% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 33% (0.551 End/sec) Recovery
- 9.45% Resistance(Fire)
- 9.45% Resistance(Cold)
- 17% RunSpeed
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1618;770;1540;HEX;| |78DA8D945B4F134114C7677BA1F4CEC5722914CA1D0A148A9A08684C144D54AA0D3| |53E017585A66CB26E1BDA26FA245E1E7DF1418D0F788BD767EFF145FD0C6A4CF42B| |A87C8375CEF92FD0645FDCA4FFDFCCD973E63F333BD3F4A5B980101B8785123CAAA| |BE572EE88D44A7EDD9D560BDA8A772E134FE78D8AAA7B84101DD6BBDC826A14F2AB| |C9B9AAAAE7325AB952D4CB7DDBEFB2D552A9B85E49A22C97560DAD54D5D58A56341| |A4F186BF975194F6E377C9962514F664BF9FC6A809BF379B5A4198520778E6B85B5| |8AECF9D1D3A9DB79ACA4AD24D3EC7551335673D962955CA87FB94D4E72BFFC451B8| |4F5986EB12991128EFBC00386EB21F08851F798714BD8AAF6A02A8ABC31548D233D| |85A13AA497822A97F28A430DEF18FDAF19836F80B78C7699EEB44C9C30A983493D4| |CEA31BA0FA3FB60D929ABDCEC629A31D9F658861E1836BD670CC16908BE09CCA257| |E67A51EAF08E627E4013D025C7F3633CA7FFAB438898087C03BE33423F187D72A02| |0F294E02F0795867E326ECB58D85A53F80987DA9E02CF185D2F183DCF1989978C16| |395E2326261A230A85EEC84E33EFA6E96C8E38F90B64F9CD20E63A0428B23462194| |6AE7042CB06708D317215B8CE48DC60786555AB65D80AC3B85C7BBBB5A6F6299E56| |34C61677E9BC23D9DDB1C86F3A978065AC29079C67C45586535AC450A5C4C82B26C| |6A6781D3DD2A9DBFA6ADDD3A8990166B1390781430C971CA8D7B2EF0DF35CFB4280| |0FF033FA034090714FE60FC0C431A0F33A468A38BA06E3939CCBB0B505C3631CDA9| |2D77F1421D7E819361F3F05CC3326D2C069C6173942D23A2D499C96091C93148E49| |0A67E7B3CC9B449E988CE210BB76EE179D63D314F3B648C6B5739B84C2911ECAB18| |EFEEED34A170279665B4DBBA5A6FD1FCF87C0F604BC0B3EA967493224E748164996| |48964954920B242B24E6C79DEAF0019AE534C90CC92C4984FE856E52A687EE979F2| |4401224099184491A489A49A2249B24A677F77FC2FC2DC75094DA4DF9638BFCAD8D| |9C948D21B1551B8AF32798B46D78C21649D922FB6C91BDB6C8EE9EFE035FFB3768| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Drinking and posting do not mix.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
If only.
One weird thing to note about the build tho. An unorthodox solo method I've never tried would be to stealth to melee and instead of letting WoC tick its course, wait to toggle it on til you get there. If the proc doesn't fire, turn it off again and try a second time. The 33% chance for a 10 second mag 3 confuse is actually much better than the actual power. Can't argue with those set bonuses tho.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Empty Clips is marginally lower damage than Psychic Scream using normal ammo and a bit stronger with incendiary. However, Psychic Scream has a longer range. My advice would be to use Psychic Scream -> Empty Clips -> Bullet Rain as your AoE chain, then either moving away or hitting Psychic Shockwave depending on your health. I would also avoid Subdual in your single target chain... redraw after an AoE is no big deal since you get a lot of damage out of it, but DP's redraw animation is kind of long so adding in a low damage filler attack probably isn't worth it unless you just need something immobilized. You'd be better off using Piercing Rounds when it's up and Bullet Rain when it's not (Bullet Rain does the same base damage as Subdual, but to an area).
|
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I wanted to see what I could do with a DP Blaster build. I built a prelim build for DP / Mental and am pretty sure there is no way this character could be all that bad.
|
I will say that it feels that DP is a little weak, but I'm sure most of that is due to the amounts of Lethal damage they do. I've never been able to get an AR this far, so I can't compare the two. I do, however, wish that the different ammo types did a bit more. The secondary effects seem to be so minor that there is almost no reason to pick anything other than fire.
It is a fun combo, so I'll keep at it for a while longer and see how it pans out. I do not have enough exposure to it yet to make any specific suggestions though.
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
While not an expert in the game by far, I love Gun Prophet, my level 32 DP/MM.
Between the knockback, the stun and the -recharge from the secondary, you have a lot of mitigation to ensure survival when solo.
In a team, I have a wonderful AoE attack chain with fire ammo. I avoid redraw, so I go Concentrate>Psi Scream>Bullet Rain>Empty Clips>Piercing Rounds and then some single target blasts if necessary.
I've just gotten Hail of Bullets, so I'm learning to use it, but it will mesh really well with Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave. I use it with teleport, to make the most of the +defense component. The monsters get very little time to react to my appearance while I'm already mowing them down with bullets.
While not an expert in the game by far, I love Gun Prophet, my level 32 DP/MM.
Between the knockback, the stun and the -recharge from the secondary, you have a lot of mitigation to ensure survival when solo. In a team, I have a wonderful AoE attack chain with fire ammo. I avoid redraw, so I go Concentrate>Psi Scream>Bullet Rain>Empty Clips>Piercing Rounds and then some single target blasts if necessary. I've just gotten Hail of Bullets, so I'm learning to use it, but it will mesh really well with Drain Psyche and Psychic Shockwave. I use it with teleport, to make the most of the +defense component. The monsters get very little time to react to my appearance while I'm already mowing them down with bullets. |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
well it cant be that bad considering that one was farming one of my toons yesterday and was doing a better job then the Elec/shield that farmed me later
She was a DP/Elec, and was really good.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Assuming you mean farming for you in PvE, any Blaster with decent AoE can do that. All you need is enough inf for a good S/L softcapped build, then cherry-pick enemies with no Lethal resists who have a S/L component in their attacks and minimal mez. Basically pick a farm map and make a build tailor made for it and you'll do very well on that map. The Elec/Shield Scrapper, on the other hand, does quite well on almost every map.
If you meant PvP rep farming... well, who can't do that?
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
It would be better if Hail of Bullets actually had a proper recharge time of 60 seconds for its damage it does instead of the stupid 120 seconds it has now.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
srry new to fourms and i have a noob question:
What is a Min/Max player?
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
srry new to fourms and i have a noob question:
What is a Min/Max player? |
They will spend time planning out their builds and reviewing the data to try and get the maximum performance out of that character. That might entail slotting IO sets for set bonuses, getting accolade badges for buffs, going for the incarnate slot, etc. A lot of these players will then try challenges [such as soloing AVs, the Rikti Challenge and Rikti Pylon challenges (in the scrapper forum)] to see how their character performs.
These players will tend to spend quite a bit of influence in order to get the IOs required to make their character powerful.
Hey, apparently I am a min/maxer...
@ThrillKiller
I personally believe all Blasters (except possibly pure TF builds) need a solid single target attack chain. You need your tier 1 and tier 2 blasts because you will be mezzed frequently (again, unless you are only teaming) and you need something else with good DPA to fill out a chain because AVs, EBs, bosses, and so on are targets that need high DPS. Executioner's Shot is actually about on par with Power Burst if using Incendiary ammo, and I can't imagine not using Power Burst on my Energy/Energy Blaster.
After all, you'll never have an AoE-only attack chain so you need to be doing something while waiting for Empty Clips and Bullet Rain to recharge, and Piercing Rounds isn't going to fill that gap by itself. You'll pretty much have to be using at least Dual Wield unless you want to run in and punch stuff...
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636