I wanna try Ninjitsu as secondary... Hows Kin/Nin? What else could be good?
By
Angelic_EU,
Posted on: 2010-12-16 24:05 in Stalkers
Go Kin, but know that you'll be underwhelmed until you get into SO territory and have Burst fully slotted. Also be aware that the Build Up takes longer to activate than other primaries, but the AS is actually a shorter animation to make up for it. TBH I haven't played Kin/ past 24 so that's about all the advice I can give, but I believe Jibikao might have some insight, should he see this thread.
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TY
Im not sure yet if Kin goes well with ninjitsu...
Hope someone post a build here.
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Except in the sense that defense-sets go well with ANY stalker. When you assassin strike and demoralize hits everything with an unresistable 7% tohit debuff, it might as well be a +7% defense buff that stacks with your existing defense for 8 seconds. If you don't already have a decent amount of defense, this tohit debuff is fairly unnoticeable.|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
TY
Im not sure yet if Kin goes well with ninjitsu... |
Aside from that, Caltrops can help in bunching up an ambush for AoE. Hide around a corner. Let them pile up into it. Then dash around and Burst before they can hit you and break Hide (which again is where defense is nice). Or dust a spawn with non-aggroing Blinding Powder before opening with Burst to give yourself a little more protection.
Or you might consider Ninja Blade. Doesn't have a PBAoE like Kin but has some nice soft controls in its KU and KD attacks Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly, the latter of which is also a short range narrow cone (where again a pile up caused by Caltrops can let you hit multiple enemies with a very damaging attack). Divine Avalanche can over-soft-cap you on melee defense allowing you to shrug off Cimeroran defense debuffs on the ITF, for instance. Not to mention giving you some build flexibility in defense IOing. You can pretty much ignore soft-capping for melee defense in favor of other bonuses.
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Ninjitsu by itself is an ideal stalker secondary. Essentially any primary can work with it pretty much.
I just hit 20 on my Dual Blades/Ninjitsu Stalker. I'm having fun with it. As with any Defense based set, any thing you can do to hamper an enemy attacking you is ideal. Considering you have a PBAoE knockdown combo by level 8, Dual Blades is shaping up to be a nice match with Ninjitsu, for me.
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That's on my To-Do list as well. It's just a shame about the way they've done the combos. Now with Demoralize helping to cut down on retaliation after the Assassin Strike, sweep seems almost wasted when it could have been tied to attacks that you can chain *during* a fight. And when I do get around to DB, I won't have Sweep by level 8 anyway since Build Up is a colossal waste of a power slot at level 8, it being up only once every minute and a half and no way at that level to cut it down by much.|
Originally Posted by Yusaku_777
I just hit 20 on my Dual Blades/Ninjitsu Stalker. I'm having fun with it. As with any Defense based set, any thing you can do to hamper an enemy attacking you is ideal. Considering you have a PBAoE knockdown combo by level 8, Dual Blades is shaping up to be a nice match with Ninjitsu, for me.
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I mean the set has six other attacks besides Build Up, AS, and Placate. Did they really need to have TWO of the four combos begin with the same BU+AS? It's sheer idiocy. A random number generator might have come up with better combos.
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i love playing my kin/nin on and off. its currently lvl 37 I have invested in some IO slotting to buff defenses already, Touch of Deaths, Zephar, etc. So far, its my favourite stalker 
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
I love my kin/nin stalker but dislike Praetoria so I have not used her much. Ran with her tonight though to hit 20 and was reminded how nicely the toon runs. Endurance is an issue but I still have to respec for the inherent fitness pool. I think my build may favor defense and recharge. Any suggestions from anyone would be appreciated as this is my first stalker.
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You will love Kin/Nin if you decide to pair them together. I made one when Going Rogue went live and she is currently sitting at level 39 because I stopped leveling her for a while so that I could wait until issue 19 went live.|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I want to give Ninjitsu a try as secondary... I mean, a long term try.
I already have elec melee, dark melee, dual blades, broadsword and martial arts scrappers so Im looking for something else. Maybe even rerolling dual blades if nothing else fits... Any suggestions? Thank you guys in advance. |
Burst out of Hide is absolute love especially if you use Build Up just before and with capped defense you are never really at a risk of being defeated outright. Having Kuji-In Sha for healing is always lovely and as many have already pointed out, Ninjitsu is great and idea for Stalkers.
Another recommendation I would make is Energy Aura. A lot of people can't play EA, but I love it for Stalkers and you can easily cap your smashing, lethal, energy, and negative defense using the IO system. It is a much easier building for Nin, but you feel a lot more rewarded if you can do it with EA since its not seen as much and because a lot of people dislike it. I love both Nin and EA, although I think the change they made to Energy Drain back in the day to give it a little heal was terrible because the heal is basically worthless unless you use it in a large group.
If you want easy, fun and powerful, then go with Kin/Nin. If you want powerful, fun, and rewarding go with Kin/EA.
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I just made it to fifty on my Kin/Nin, and it has beens a great trip! BU has had its activation time reduced so that it is in line with other sets, but still has the fastest AS out there. Add to that the ability to one-hit kill minions with FB and you can take out groups at will without even using your bag of tricks.
One thing to keep in mind is that Kin is very ST oriented, but Blinding powder, Caltrops and Smoke Flash allow you to control aggro more than most secondaries. So you have a nice balance between the two. You have to have a plan, but if you didn't want to plan you'd play a scrapper.
The easy capping of defenses allows for a sense of invulnerability and the ability to wait to go into hide if you so choose... I was up fighting level 50+ rikti monkeys last night, waiting to go into hide, then burst, let them swarm some more and then wait until your hidden to hit burst again. I literally had twenty monkeys unable to keep me from entering hide while standing still.
I'm trying to decide on which path to take for the alpha slot (probably going musculature), but right now here is my build:
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Eric KilPatrick: Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Body Blow -- T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(A), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 1: Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36)
Level 2: Smashing Blow -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(43), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 4: Ninja Reflexes -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(17), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(27), RedFtn-EndRdx(29)
Level 6: Assassin's Strike -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Dmg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(42)
Level 10: Danger Sense -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(15), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(27), RedFtn-EndRdx(29)
Level 12: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Quick Strike -- T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(A), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(17), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Kuji-In Rin -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 24: Recall Friend -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 26: Kick -- ExStrk-Dam%(A), ExStrk-Dmg/KB(48)
Level 28: Smoke Flash -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-Psi/Status(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Concentrated Strike -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg(34), Mako-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Blinding Powder -- CoPers-Conf/Rchg(A), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(40), CoPers-Conf%(40), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(46), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(46)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(39), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(42), RedFtn-EndRdx(43)
Level 41: Char -- Lock-%Hold(A), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- Achilles-DefDeb(A), Achilles-DefDeb/Rchg(45), Achilles-ResDeb%(45), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg(45), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Focused Burst -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(48), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(50), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Code:
I still don't have all the purples, eight away, but that's more a matter of laziness than lack of funds... Also, I want to get by only on this toons funds rather than shipping a billion or two from other toons. But that's another story... Long story short, if you play Kin/Nin you will love it.
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Not in my experience. Since you have to use BU before AS to get the sweep combo, there's a good chance the target will be dead so no demoralize. If not, then you've got 2 choices > 1. get damage from sweep which is actually pretty decent damage but if the foes are not huddled within 10ft at the start, it won't reach them (but do use it on a team) or 2. switch on the fly to the Empowering combo for extra 20sec of damage buff and eek in an Attack Vitals combo before BU wears off.|
Originally Posted by Zem
That's on my To-Do list as well. It's just a shame about the way they've done the combos. Now with Demoralize helping to cut down on retaliation after the Assassin Strike, sweep seems almost wasted when it could have been tied to attacks that you can chain *during* a fight. And when I do get around to DB, I won't have Sweep by level 8 anyway since Build Up is a colossal waste of a power slot at level 8, it being up only once every minute and a half and no way at that level to cut it down by much.
I mean the set has six other attacks besides Build Up, AS, and Placate. Did they really need to have TWO of the four combos begin with the same BU+AS? It's sheer idiocy. A random number generator might have come up with better combos. |
The set up, while not optimized for DPS and maximum staying power, does actually work well for Stalker and their burst damage tendencies. Yeah, it sux that those combos can't be used whenever you want but I feel it's kind of balanced by the better regular chains you can set up for burst damage.
I'd sooner wish we just had different type of combos. Weaken probably would have been better replaced by some kind of misdirection/controlling combo or an entirely different debuff than -def and -ToHit although it does stack with Blinding Powder which is good since caltrops tends to work against your cones...
My Kin/Dark just hit 50 last night.
Kin is good on Stalker. It's a bit on the "slow" side but the damage debuff is quite unique and I think it synergizes well with a defense set so that you don't get one-shotted to death.
I tested Kin on Pylon two weeks ago and if I cycle 3 attacks, pylon's damage on my /Dark is only about half but if I don't use Kin attacks, I only have about 1/3 of health left. The damage debuff is quite noticeable. (this is before I got Tough in my build)
I just respec my /Dark Armor and took Tough and man, between my damage debuffs and resistance, the elite boss in Alpha story arc was just scratching me. It felt good! Good to have elites scratching my itchy back!
I was afraid they gonna nerf Burst in i19 but they didn't. hehe
The only thing I think you may need to watch out for is Caltrops because when I play Kin Stalker, I want the mobs surround me as close as they can (since Burst's radius is kinda small) and caltrops may spread them out too much.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I seem to recall in initial testing that Burst started out with a radius of 10' and got smaller for no good reason. It is one of the smallest radii in the game, and I don't see the reasoning behind it. But that is neither here nor there. For Stalkers it is a good situational tool, and a double crit (Hide crit + random crit activating on the same attack, which happened only once for me, fortunately it was not wasted) on Burst can kill Lts, however rare that might be... Also, I don't recommend caltrops for kin/nin...
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
My Kin/Dark just hit 50 last night.
Kin is good on Stalker. It's a bit on the "slow" side but the damage debuff is quite unique and I think it synergizes well with a defense set so that you don't get one-shotted to death. I tested Kin on Pylon two weeks ago and if I cycle 3 attacks, pylon's damage on my /Dark is only about half but if I don't use Kin attacks, I only have about 1/3 of health left. The damage debuff is quite noticeable. (this is before I got Tough in my build) I just respec my /Dark Armor and took Tough and man, between my damage debuffs and resistance, the elite boss in Alpha story arc was just scratching me. It felt good! Good to have elites scratching my itchy back! I was afraid they gonna nerf Burst in i19 but they didn't. hehe The only thing I think you may need to watch out for is Caltrops because when I play Kin Stalker, I want the mobs surround me as close as they can (since Burst's radius is kinda small) and caltrops may spread them out too much. |
hey! i just rolled my first ever stalker last night. a MA/Nin. i have to admit, 1-shotting the bad guys never gets old. anyway, thanks for the ninjitsu tips both on this thread and the rest of the forum.
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You don't use caltrops for damage. You use it for survivability only when you need the extra survivability. So if you're not going to die, you don't use them. I wouldn't skip them in a build however unless you never plan to do anything more difficult than farming at +0/x8 (no bosses). For me, the idea of throwing down trops in front of an x8 ambush causing them to pile up INTO a small group which can then be burst to death is too tempting to pass up.|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
I seem to recall in initial testing that Burst started out with a radius of 10' and got smaller for no good reason. It is one of the smallest radii in the game, and I don't see the reasoning behind it. But that is neither here nor there. For Stalkers it is a good situational tool, and a double crit (Hide crit + random crit activating on the same attack, which happened only once for me, fortunately it was not wasted) on Burst can kill Lts, however rare that might be... Also, I don't recommend caltrops for kin/nin...
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As for the radius on Burst, is it not 7-8ft like most other melee PBAoEs? The smallest radius AoE I've ever used personally is Assault Rifle's Ignite at 4ft.
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Eh, I say if it hinders your primary, taking it is up in the air. My only /Nin Stalker is Dual Blades and if the foes are constantly shifting around, it makes my cones more unwieldly.|
Originally Posted by Zem
You don't use caltrops for damage. You use it for survivability only when you need the extra survivability. So if you're not going to die, you don't use them. I wouldn't skip them in a build however unless you never plan to do anything more difficult than farming at +0/x8 (no bosses). For me, the idea of throwing down trops in front of an x8 ambush causing them to pile up INTO a small group which can then be burst to death is too tempting to pass up.
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For that x8 ambush, yeah they're bunched up in your caltrops...but you're around the corner. You still have to *get in there* to do your business. The odds that the enemy will get in at least one shot to drop hide isn't out of the picture even soft-capped.
That said, I think caltrops on a kin/nin wouldn't be so bad. PBAoEs are rather simple to aim and they don't require a target to pull off (so no 'Out of Range' messages). It wouldn't be the end of the world to have caltrops push 2 or so foes out of your Burst. And everything else you have is single target.
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If you can afford to stand in the middle of that pack of enemies *without* caltrops then you wouldn't use them in that situation in the first place. I only throw trops at my own feet when I feel like I'd be swarmed and killed without them or I want to slow down rate of incoming attacks vs. a heavy-hitter like a Minotaur (or as sometimes happens to me... three Minotaurs. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Eh, I say if it hinders your primary, taking it is up in the air. My only /Nin Stalker is Dual Blades and if the foes are constantly shifting around, it makes my cones more unwieldly.
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| For that x8 ambush, yeah they're bunched up in your caltrops...but you're around the corner. You still have to *get in there* to do your business. The odds that the enemy will get in at least one shot to drop hide isn't out of the picture even soft-capped. |
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Out of the 3 sword sets, which is the best for stalker: Dual blades, Ninja blade or Broad sword?
I havent decided yet...
I dont know if try kinetic melee, claws, ninja blade or dual blades.
I already have a dual blades on scrapper, I just love the set.
So confused!
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Katana and Broadsword are pretty much the same except the animations are different.|
Originally Posted by Angelic_EU
Out of the 3 sword sets, which is the best for stalker: Dual blades, Ninja blade or Broad sword?
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Dual Blades, IMO, is around even with those set's damage-wise vs a single target, but Dual Blades has more AoE. The shifting point is, Kat/BS have -def in all their attacks (slot achilles' heel!) and a big defense buff attack and Dual Blades has some nice, if not rather clunky, combos.
Summary: they are similarly the same yet do different things. Choose by concept, if you want to do AoE damage or if you want lots of safety.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I havent decided yet...
I dont know if try kinetic melee, claws, ninja blade or dual blades. I already have a dual blades on scrapper, I just love the set. So confused! |
No matter what your primary is, caltrops is useful; either you stand on it to spread people out, or you stand near it to drive them together into a cone.
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I play both, I love to do the combos and I also play with random attacks too.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
For Dual Blades: do you like to do the combos? If you do, you might not like Stalker's DB. If it doesn't matter if you're constantly stringing together combos, you should definitely give it a shot on Stalkers too.
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The thing is I already have a dual blades scrapper lvl 37...
Had a Night widow (Claws)...
So I think I will go with something I dont have like kinetic melee or ninja blade.
I want to give Ninjitsu a try as secondary... I mean, a long term try.
I already have elec melee, dark melee, dual blades, broadsword and martial arts scrappers so Im looking for something else.
Maybe even rerolling dual blades if nothing else fits...
Any suggestions?
Thank you guys in advance.