Isn't Kin/Elec the best powerset combination for sapping? If having your enemies dry of endurance constantly isn't defending your team, then I don't know what is.
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Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
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Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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You're not. Spamming siphon power and fulcrum shift on an AV should be the first priority for a kineticist.
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Originally Posted by Soran
Am I misunderstanding how this debuff works?
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The problem is the amount of time it takes to sap a mob, or an AV(if it can be done at all really), and the likeliness of any target attacking with a sliver of end. On paper end drain sounds awesome. In reality...
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Isn't Kin/Elec the best powerset combination for sapping? If having your enemies dry of endurance constantly isn't defending your team, then I don't know what is.
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Kin/elec doesn't have many options for debuffing recovery, which is absolutely needed for end drain to be effective. Electric armor works better, and electric control is likely the best.
Elec/Elec Dominators are the closest thing to a true Sapper I've seen yet... Especially when there's more than one.
Kin/Elec is as good a pure sapper as you'll get. You get Transference (BIG -end) and Short Circuit (reliable -Rec). So your target of choice has no end, and no recovery and plain cannot fight back. 100% guaranteed.
One SC is up again (and SiphonS peed helps here), the same goes for the rest of the mob.
Elec/Elec doms dont get any source of 100% reliable -recovery. They make good all round controllers, since they're layering their patchy sapping with knockdown, sleep patches, and actual hard control. A Kin/Elec will sap better, but the Dom being a Dominator will obviosuly control better all round.
In reponse to Angel's original question, Kinetics is at the offence far end of the offence/defence scale for Defenders. It can feel lacking if your team is already offensive based, eg a bunch of Blasters. Add in a good Tank or FF-er or other form of safety and you're rocking with Kinetics.
On top of all the obvious heals, damage boost and so on, you're often giving temmates sizeable gifts like perma-Domination, perma-Phantom Army, perma-Mind Link and so on via speed boost, many of which amplify the whole teams performance.
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Looking back on it, I was pretty dumb to say this considering that the two that I listed have little -recovery at all while kin/elec does.|
Originally Posted by Garent
Kin/elec doesn't have many options for debuffing recovery, which is absolutely needed for end drain to be effective. Electric armor works better, and electric control is likely the best.
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The fact of the matter is that electric armor and electric control don't need -recovery because they have toggles that constantly drain enemy endurance. The important distinction is that both of these sets drain endurance in an area, whereas kin/elec is more focused on single target drain. It can drain a single target very effectively, but short circuit needs to be backed up with power sink or power boost in order to be effective. Both of these powers are on 2 minute timers.
All three of these can potentially reduce an entire spawn to 0 end and keep it there, but electric blast will take the longest to do it, and needs to throw out short circuit every 10 seconds in order to keep things from recovering endurance. This is a tall order considering that the base recharge is 20 seconds and the animation time is over 3 seconds.
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In my experience, even electric control takes a bit over 10 seconds to drain an entire spawn (teaming electric control with an electric blast set is great fun). Kinetics has +recharge built in, so dropping the recharge of SC is trivial, although the long animation time is problematic as you say. OTOH, when playing my kin/elec on a team, getting to use SC a 2nd time on a spawn is a rarity not because of cycle time issues, but because stuff doesn't live long enough usually. I am interested to see if I get more use out of end draining in the new TF where +4s are the norm (the few TFs I have done already at +4 with my Kin, the enemies lasted long enough, but the end drain amount was reduced enough that I still had a hard time draining them). I just got my Nerve slotted, so I'll have to see how it goes.
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Originally Posted by Garent
All three of these can potentially reduce an entire spawn to 0 end and keep it there, but electric blast will take the longest to do it, and needs to throw out short circuit every 10 seconds in order to keep things from recovering endurance. This is a tall order considering that the base recharge is 20 seconds and the animation time is over 3 seconds.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Well if it didn't have fulcrum,sb,unlimited endurance and its own travel power I would say it is a little lacking, being the fact that it does....any kins lff?!!!?!?! lol
Kinetics is an awesome set to have on your team.
I personally detest actually playing them myself, but I would never disparage the set in the hands of someone who knows how to really use it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It's just you.
My Kin/Energy defender is probably the most powerful character I have. I pull her out whenever I want to be sure that we'll have zero problems on a task force.
She's probably the second hardest-to-play character I have. (The Regen scrapper is just as clicky but less forgiving of mistakes.) I think that I would need seven fingers on each hand in order to play her perfectly. But she does well enough with my piloting her. All her teams live at the damage cap, have infinite endurance and ignore status effects. What else can a team want?
Also, Fulcrum Shift + Nova is one of the most beautiful things in the game, if your video card can handle the flying bodies. 
...
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Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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Heh... Having a kin as my main, I'm so familiar with the set that when I then turn around and play my eng/eng blaster I look for the telltales for fulcrum shift and/or siphon power (if there's a kin on the team). If I see either of those powers go off, I hit build up + aim + conserve power + nova.... BOOM ... then I swallow a little blue pill and casually clean up any leftovers. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Also, Fulcrum Shift + Nova is one of the most beautiful things in the game, if your video card can handle the flying bodies.
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Kin/arch is a tricky combo to play. On the one hand I need to be in range to benefit from my own heals/buffs/etc... on the other hand, using my arrows at range is also useful (even though I can/do use arch in melee). FS + SP + RoA = win
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
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Stop saying that name before you invoke the loquacious one.
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Originally Posted by Griff Mender
Utter high speed destruction of the enemy isn't mitigation? I mitigate damage by removing enemies (sorry, stole that line from my scrapper playing wife). But yeah, yer right, we dont "defend" in the classic sense. We amplify. Maybe we should get our our AT category, Lvl 50 Kin Amplifier...or Lvl 50 Kin Uberer....hmm...Uberer....I like it. Gotta ring to it.
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That's about right in my experience too. Electric control was absolutely amazing for me in Praetoria. If the team could survive for 10-15 seconds we won the fight, period. The powerset is amazing 1-20 because fights take a decent amount of time and people could really use the end recovery I could give them (this is less so as of I19). But now the character's in the actual game and I'm teaming with my level 50 friends who blow up entire groups in 15-20 seconds and I'm left going "what's the point?"|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
In my experience, even electric control takes a bit over 10 seconds to drain an entire spawn (teaming electric control with an electric blast set is great fun).
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Like you, I'm wondering if it'll be more useful against later game stuff once I'm high level. I mostly made the character because I wanted to check out the amazing synergy between electric control and storm summoning.
just curious, how are elec/kin controllers? my main is an illusion/kin, and i'd imagine they would sap really well, and kinetics might help elec control's low damage.
50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
I'd say they would synergize really well because both of them work best when you're in close range. Kinetic's single target end drain will complement electric control's area end drain too.
Just you. Buff ID to be longer than a minute, that's all the changing kin needs.
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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Elec is still kind of like Ice and Earth is terms of damage. Even if you buff it for all it's worth, it's still not much. Elec/kin is one of the better pairings, but I still think it's on the lower end of the upper rankings, 4th, or 5th.
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Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
just curious, how are elec/kin controllers? my main is an illusion/kin, and i'd imagine they would sap really well, and kinetics might help elec control's low damage.
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I could go for that.|
Originally Posted by Hazygreys
... Buff ID to be longer than a minute...
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Agreed. Now that everyone gets Swift, the reason given for keeping the buff duration short is moot.
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Originally Posted by Hazygreys
Just you. Buff ID to be longer than a minute, that's all the changing kin needs.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I disagree solely because any change to kinetics will probably mean they will nerf something harshly. I like kinetics the way it is, thanks.
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Originally Posted by Hazygreys
Just you. Buff ID to be longer than a minute, that's all the changing kin needs.
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A change in buff magnitude in exchange for buff length standarization would be most acceptable. Kin feels really busy at times because SB and ID do not last very long at all. |
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
I disagree solely because any change to kinetics will probably mean they will nerf something harshly. I like kinetics the way it is, thanks.
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In general, though, Kin may seem to lack a bit until they get the later powers. Transference and Fulcrm Shift change the way entire teams approach some challenges or enemy groups. The early powers are decent and have some other dubuff possibilities, it is a late-blooming set.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
Kin is awesome. That said, I hate playing it. Way too busy. Way too much clicking. I can enjoy it on a solo controller like a Fire/Kin, but when I'm on a team I'm always feeling pressured to keep all the buffs up and running all the time.
This whole thread has to be trolling. You're all trolling. All of you. Trolling each other. That's the only way this **** makes sense.
There's been some discussion about a lack of mitigation, but the damage debuffs are considerable. Just checked RedTomax, and both Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift debuff with:
- DMG(All Types) -25% for 30s PvE only [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Ignores enhancement and buffs, and there's no indication it can't stack. I tend to throw out SP/FS as soon as I can on major targets to bring them down a notch.Am I misunderstanding how this debuff works?