Mind/ Emp, FF or Sonic

For my play style and concept, I want to make a Mind controller with Empathy, FF or Sonic. I want to make a nice team oriented character.

If you had to choose one to take along, which would it be?

I am leaning a little toward Empathy right now, the combo of locking everything down and a buffed team to melt spawns seems nice.

Anyone?

Either or Empathy or Force Field. Mind/Empathy/Primal with the Spirit Alpha slot would have excellent recharge and healing, access to Power Boost to buff heals and Fortitude, and pretty good endurance because of Recovery Aura. Mind Control with access to Power Boost is beastly.

Force Field makes it easier to get defenses and provides you mezz protection. You can also Power Boost Force Fields. However, if you plan to IO, adding lots of Recharge (like you will want with Mind Control) doesn't add a lot to Force Field.

Sonic would be my last pick.

You didn't mention Thermal. IMO it would be a tradeoff between Empathy and Sonic.

FF
Pros: Personal mez protection. Good fallback when controls fail, eg purple triangle AVs.
Cons: No offensive boost. Mind Control is pretty safe - anything really nasty can often get confused before the fight starts, and you have alternating hard controls in Total Dom and Mass Confusion. Mind/FF feels like too much safety.

Empathy
Pros: Good offensive and defensive boosts.
Cons: You're juggling a lot. Mind Control and Empathy are both very active sets, no pets or passive buffs to forget about. Empathy requires you to watch your power bar for recharging buffs, MC requires you to watch the battlefield closely.

Sonic
Pros: Mez protection for you. Best damage boost of the three, a flat 22.5% net increase to all team damage from Disruption Field, and same again for hard targets. (Empathy gives about +15% net damage to the few in contrast, with an extra boost for the chosen one who gets AB) Sonic is a very hands-off set, and lets you think about controlling once you've set up.
Cons: End management is a bit nasty. Poor choice for building global recharge through IOs.


I'd vote for Sonic myself. I must dig out my Mind/Sonic again one day.

Another "pro" of FF would be that, if you want to skimp out on the KB force attacks, you can keep a lot of room open in your build (Mind is pretty tight, with the exception of TK). Not to mention you have a lot of places to put LotG: +Recharge IOs. However, as DrMike said, you won't get any help with your damage.

Thanks for the opinions!

Oedipus_Tex, why no Sonic? Just curious. As to Thermal, I have done that before, looking for something I have not done and it does not really fit the character concept.

I started out as FF and I agree with DrMike, it's feels like too much mitigation. I just really want a FF some some reason.

Although Empathy might be 'busy' I am OK with that.

I did not know Sonic gave ME mez protection, that sounds really nice.

Trying to come up with a guy I like to play that folks say "I am glad you were here" even if I am not the damage machine, since I have lots of those...

Mike has the right ideas for pros/cons. Ive played an ice/ff for over 4 years and all I say is its my 2nd favorite troller secondary. FF is a very easy to play set..turn on disp bubble, bubbles allies..get controlling. Its also requires less commitment for slotting(I get away w/ 4 LotGs per bubble). Mind is definitely a better way to stay occupied until its time to refresh shields. I had room to pick up the med pool so I can do quick heals for others and myself.

I get lots of compliments b/c I stop incoming dmg via added defense and slows(since I lack much hard control) but mind can easily manage multiple groups. I just like that FF gives me more freedom to focus on my controlling and other tasks.

As an added bonus FF makes is easier to softcap to range. Mine is currently softcapped to s/l and range.

Thanks again for the replies!

Oedipus_Tex, great info for Sonic, I can see why you shy away from it.

BlissfulChaos, my personal defenses are certainly a main component of going with FF. My concern, as stated, is that it seems almost like too much mitigation with a control set, but I like your take on it as well in that it allows more controlling. The LoTGs don't hurt.

Tough call now between FF and Empathy. So many choices, so little time to play them all!

here's another thing i forgot to mention..repulsion bomb...it puts the fun functional! its my only spammable hard control power for my toon, but besides that its still worth noting. mediocre dmg, but the knockdown/disorient component is very nice.

ive played every controller secondary to around 40 so I can understand why people love playing an empath, but personally id only ever play it again as a defender. tho i guess 4 numinas would also make each heal fuctional so you'd still have slots for mind.

either way i recommend one thing. learn and use keybinds like your life depended on it. my numpad is set 1-9 to target the respective teammate, and lastly my pet. then * and - are my shields. empathy could benefit from setting heal other and fort for more intense fights(saved me and my teams *** SO many team on my own emp).

one other thing, tend to more openly praise empaths vs ff b/c they see the results more clearly. empath is a more reactive support whereas bubbles passively reduce overall dmg. so if you love to be praised, be the emp. if you can be content knowing you do your part, go for ff

hope this helps a little

Looks like Mind/FF then.

Thanks for all of the comments!

I have been slowly leveling up a Mind/FF for a while. It is on a server where my buddies don't go, so it has been mostly a solo character. It is an effective character, with one of the best "panic button" powers in the game available at the very start. (PFF makes getting Nukes in Warburg stupidly easy!) The hard part about playing it solo is that when other controllers pick up a big jump in damage from its pet, Mind seems to level off on its damage and it takes a while to kill stuff in the late 30's. He is 40 right now.

FF only has a few "must have" powers, so it makes it easy to focus on Mind Control. Any team is happy to have me along to bubble them up. The optional powers in FF can be fun, too, as long as you are careful on how you use knockback in teams. Force Bubble can be fun and effective, though.

Mind/Sonic

1) there are not enough sonics in the world
2) you can reach very impressive survivability levels with /Sonic. capped s/l resist and softcapped ranged/en/ne defense +mez protection means you can be very aggressive.

I have a mind/ff softcapped to s/l and ranged and an earth/sonic with the above stats. Both are fun, both play very aggressively, but I find that having resist to back up the defense makes for a much sturdier toon.

I used to team with a Mind/FF Controller a lot. I always felt like he brought a lot to the team, especially since we were temperamentally able to take advantage of the sleeps (i.e., we didn't constantly cast one-slotted Rain of Fire on everything he'd just slept).

Literally running to work right now, but here's a quick Mind/FF build showing off some of the synergies we talked about. I think if this grabbed the highest level Spiritual Alpha it would be have perma-Hasten. I built this very quickly so chances are there are some holes in it still. Let me know if you have questions about power selections.

If you decide to really spend some money, reslot Terrify with Ragnarok (the knockdown proc is awesome here) and Levitate with Apocalypse.

PS if you're ever playing this build and something startles you, hit Power Boost. Instant near-soft cap to all for 15 seconds. Almost like a PFF you can shoot through.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Levitate -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(3)
Level 2: Mesmerize -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(7)
Level 4: Dominate -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 6: Confuse -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(13), CoPers-Conf%(13)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(15), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(15), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(37), FtnHyp-Plct%(39)
Level 10: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39)
Level 12: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(40)
Level 14: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 16: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 18: Total Domination -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(21), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def(23), RedFtn-EndRdx(27)
Level 22: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(27), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), RedFtn-Def(31), RedFtn-EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Terrify -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng(33), Posi-Dam%(33)
Level 28: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(36)
Level 30: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(40), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(42), Mlais-Conf/Rng(42), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(42), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(37), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(39), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Telekinesis -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), EndMod-I(48), P'Shift-End%(48)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 12.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 12.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Smashing)
• 3% Defense(Lethal)
• 3% Defense(Fire)
• 3% Defense(Cold)
• 17.38% Defense(Energy)
• 17.38% Defense(Negative)
• 3% Defense(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Melee)
• 22.38% Defense(Ranged)
• 3% Defense(AoE)
• 4.5% Max End
• 40% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 96.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 6.5% Enhancement(Confused)
• 9% FlySpeed
• 22.89 HP (2.251%) HitPoints
• 9% JumpHeight
• 9% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 13.2%
• 19.5% (0.326 End/sec) Recovery
• 20% (0.849 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 9.45% Resistance(Fire)
• 9.45% Resistance(Cold)
• 9% RunSpeed

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Just a quick thought while I'm noticing it ... Do NOT put Kismet +6% in PFF. Kismet only works when the power in question is active. Obviously you aren't going to be attacking anything and hence needing its +6% to hit while PFF is toggled on and active. When its toggled off so is Kismet, there's no 120 seconds of functioning after PFF is toggled off.

Regarding the usefulness of Sonic on teams, it really depends on who you play with.

FF is great for teammates with no defense. Early levels it's a boon, and it's also very effective on squishies with no defense.

However, I run speed TFs with people that are mostly softcapped, so in this case sonic is much more preferred. Plus sonic offers more offensive capabilities in the two -resist powers.

My experience with sonic is with an earth/sonic. End usage wasn't too much of an issue as I'm not constantly spamming end heavy powers. I can see mind control having much more of an issue with the 3 ST damage chain that is spammable though, especially with disruption field toggled on.

It's handy for even the defensive sorts too. I run a mind/ff, my second toon ever in fact. Imagine being bubbled on top of a tanks defense. "Oh Hamidon....."

The difficult thing about Sonic is really the same thing that afflicts Force Field, but in different ways. Both sets are kind of watered down by the IO system in their own way. In tthe case of FF its because team mates can use the IO system to IO themselves to the point your shields become less (never totally) irrelevant.

What frustrates me about Sonic is that getting loads of Recharge that make a Controller build strong is difficult to get. The main +Recharge available comes from a level 30 I0 that requires you to 5 slot it. Force Field has 4 slots where you can put either Luck of the Gambler, or Red Fortune. The miracle of LotG is already well known. Less discussed is the incredible Red Fortune, which results in +2% damage, +5 Recharge, and an additional +2.5 Ranged Defense. This double-dipping along with natively strong defense makes achieving the soft cap much easier for Force Field characters, so they can in turn slot their single target damage powers for Recharge instead of Ranged defense.

The set we haven't mentioned yet is Cold. I'll post my Mind/Cold build in a moment for comparison with Force Field.

As promised, this is one version of my Mind/Cold. Not quite soft capped but so close I'm not sure it matters. Keep in mind this isn't the "perfected" build. It's the moderately expensive version. I have another, much more expensive one that I'm gradually working toward. I'm posting this one because it compares in price more or less to the previously posted Mind/FF build, except that Terrify is slotted with Ragnaroks here instead of much cheaper Posi Blast.

This build is meant to be played with the Spiritual Alpha slot.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

11-21-10 Cold Reader NO STAM2: Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Levitate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Dominate -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Confuse -- CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(7), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(7), CoPers-Conf(9), CoPers-Conf%(13), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(15)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FtnHyp-Plct%(9), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(17), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(29), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(33)
Level 10: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-ResKB(46)
Level 16: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(40), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(48), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(48), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48), Stpfy-KB%(50)
Level 18: Total Domination -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(19), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(19), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(23), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(25)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(21), RedFtn-EndRdx(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 26: Terrify -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(27), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Ragnrk-Knock%(31)
Level 28: Benumb -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(33), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(33), Mlais-Conf/Rng(34), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(34), RechRdx(34)
Level 35: Sleet -- LdyGrey-%Dam(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/EndRdx(36), Achilles-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(40), Efficacy-EndMod(43)
Level 41: Power Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dam%(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Temp Invulnerability -- ResDam-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Smashing)
• 3% Defense(Lethal)
• 3% Defense(Fire)
• 3% Defense(Cold)
• 21.44% Defense(Energy)
• 21.44% Defense(Negative)
• 3% Defense(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Melee)
• 28.63% Defense(Ranged)
• 3% Defense(AoE)
• 91.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 3% Enhancement(Stun)
• 75% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 6.5% Enhancement(Confused)
• 12% FlySpeed
• 45.78 HP (4.502%) HitPoints
• 12% JumpHeight
• 12% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 4.4%
• 31% (0.518 End/sec) Recovery
• 10% (0.425 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 11.66% Resistance(Fire)
• 11.66% Resistance(Cold)
• 12% RunSpeed

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