Scrappers solo full strength AVs?


all_hell

 

Posted

A 'back of the envelope' calculation seems to show me that super strength brutes with enough recharge bonus, can reach over 250 single-target DPS while at 70 fury and double-raged, and using procs. The chain I used for the calculation was gloom - KO blow - haymaker - gloom - punch - haymaker - repeat. Haymaker had the hecatomb and perfect zinger damage procs, gloom had the apocalypse damage proc. Total chain time is 9.9 seconds.

With enough +recharge, from the start of the fight you'll have about 65s of single rage, 55s of double rage, then IIRC a 10-second crash, after which you'll have 60s of double rage again (the extra few seconds of recharge time on rage are 'covered' by the crash period). So once you're a minute into a fight, you'll be able to iterate your attack chain about 6 times per rage cycle followed by 10 seconds of no damage. So once you're 'established' you'll probably do about 215 DPS over 70 seconds (60s double rage uptime, 10s rage crash downtime).

If I'm wrong on the crash duration and it's actually 15 or 20 seconds, then you do about 200 or about 190 DPS over the full cycle of up-and-down. And of course, you need to 'build up' to that output, not just to get consistent double rage, but also to get 70 fury, which may be overestimating the amount of fury you'll be able to generate and maintain against a single target, even though AVs give bonus fury now like they always were supposed to. And you can herd up minions to boost your fury generation, in many instances.

Any which way, at least in theory it's still (eventually going to build up to) enough DPS to solo a 'generic' AV who hasn't especially got resistance to your damage output.

I can anecdotally back this up by noting my SS/WP brute soloed The Radio AV a while ago. The Radio isn't a very hard AV, or at the time I wouldn't have been able to, but he still has the hp/regen targets you need to beat offensively.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
So I'd be pretty confident that a Super Strength Brute COULD put out the required DPS. But due to my lack of familiarity with Brutes, I'm not sure how specialized a build it would take, or if you could do it with a nice generalist build without major compromises.
Definitely doable, although I think it would require a somewhat specialized build to deal with the rage & hasten crashes if you wanted to do it no insps/no temps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector View Post
A 'back of the envelope' calculation seems to show me that super strength brutes with enough recharge bonus, can reach over 250 single-target DPS while at 70 fury and double-raged, and using procs. The chain I used for the calculation was gloom - KO blow - haymaker - gloom - punch - haymaker - repeat. Haymaker had the hecatomb and perfect zinger damage procs, gloom had the apocalypse damage proc. Total chain time is 9.9 seconds.

My SS/SD/Soul brute got 238 DPS (5 mins 46s) on pylon, maintained something like 75-80% fury with *I think* 157-162% global rech & surrounded by Rikti (waited for Fury to build before hopping in):

But the chain was:

KO Blow > Gloom > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom > Haymaker

Both Gloom & Haymaker are double slotted with 1 perfect zinger proc and 1 purple proc (hecatomb and apoc)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector View Post
If I'm wrong on the crash duration and it's actually 15 or 20 seconds, then you do about 200 or about 190 DPS over the full cycle of up-and-down.
10 seconds is correct.


 

Posted

I soloed a lvl 51 Nightstar on my older fire/sd who was not up to the recharge or dps that I was able to put out in the pylon test. it took a long time but I was able to whittle her down and defeat her. Funny thing I did not even realize she was lvl 51 when I started i had beat her before in another mission and half way through i am like she should be dead by know oh crap she is a lvl 51 oh well. It was a mission in one of the story arcs where you fight two V's in the mission and nightstar is always up front.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Honestly, I don't remember any Scrappers POSTING about soloing AVs until I12, though I certainly could have missed it. Wouldn't surprise me if there was some of it earlier, since it was certainly possible earlier, but I think I12 is when we all suddenly went, "Hey, wait... this is possible! Let's DO this thing!"
There where regen & inv scrappers doing it in I2 and I3 and so forth back when regen use to tank Hami and we had perma unstopable for inv. Scrappers use to have 90% resistance cap same as the tanker i think that changed like I4-I5 been a long time ago. Once DA got stacking armor and had mag3 COF they where able to do it because they also generated like 30% tohitdebuff back then and it had a 95% base acc on cof (endurance sucked).

So it been going on for a long time now after ED I think Scrappers had issues with just SO and the major nerfs that changed the game. Then IO's came out and brought back the ability to do some things we did in the past


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
C'mon lets throw tankers onto that list too!

First is just a simple vs. Chimera

http://www.wegame.com/watch/firess-av-solo/

Second is much more fun.

http://www.wegame.com/watch/av-solo-tanker-style/
Well yeah, Tankers can solo AVs too (as can many other archetypes). But I guess it doesn't SURPRISE me when people don't realize that Tankers can put out enough DPS to do it. People often don't realize how much DPS you can get on a Tanker if you build for it, and how "little" DPS it takes to solo an AV if you're patient. And of course you can get the survivability on a Tanker.

Grats in any case. That's better damage than I do on most of my scrappers.


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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

How do you develop the patience?


and is 250dps the rate needed for AVs?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Dark Melee/Invulnerability? Awesome, awesome combo in its element - surrounded by smashing/lethal enemies. And not too shabby even when it strays out of its element. With that sort of global recharge, you should be able to put out very good DPS with Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Siphon Life.
Yeah, but wouldn't you have to slot Siphon Life as an attack?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
How do you develop the patience?


and is 250dps the rate needed for AVs?
Well, the more DPS you have, the shorter the fight.

But I think it was 96 or 98 DPS to take down an AV, and that's doing like 1 point of damage a second over their Regen rate. So it would be a LONG fight.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
Yeah, but wouldn't you have to slot Siphon Life as an attack?
Yes, but Siphon Life IS an attack, so slotting it like one is the smart thing to do.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
Yes, but Siphon Life IS an attack, so slotting it like one is the smart thing to do.
Not only is it an attack, but your second best attack and should be slotted accordingly.

I, and many others, generally like 3 Nucleolus/3 Golgi HOs, which is assuming that you're running the MG>Smite>SL>Smite chain, for which the global recharge that you've needed to accumulate will cover the recharge needed for SL. Others like to slot for more recharge in case they need to spam it even faster for added survivability, though I've never found the need on my DM/SD or DM/Regen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
Not only is it an attack, but your second best attack and should be slotted accordingly.

I, and many others, generally like 3 Nucleolus/3 Golgi HOs, which is assuming that you're running the MG>Smite>SL>Smite chain, for which the global recharge that you've needed to accumulate will cover the recharge needed for SL. Others like to slot for more recharge in case they need to spam it even faster for added survivability, though I've never found the need on my DM/SD or DM/Regen.
:O I never thought to slot it like that!


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