The Defence Myth

Yes, that's what I meant, though I'll excuse toxic and psionic when building for typed defense since they are both relatively rare and usually very difficult to build for.

Also, I was specifically referring to a Dark Melee/Dark Armor Scrapper, though the same would apply to a lot of other Dark Armor Scrappers. But with enough influence to throw at the problem, inherent fitness and the alpha slot, I think we can once again build soft-capped Sword/Dark Armor Scrappers without any serious sacrifices. Mine has a travel power, decent AoE, decent DPS, decent endurance management (will be sustainable with the very rare alpha), and doesn't skimp on any other aspects of survivability (knockdown, fear, resistance, healing). The main problem is defense debuffs, but that will probably be a weakness of any Dark Armor Scrapper.

Riktis does hurt on my S/L softcap DB/DA, but I can pull off the RWZ challenge though. DR is nice.

I imagine Paragon PD hurt much worse.

Man, those dudes are nasty without significant energy DEF/RES.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

I was running level 50 Mayhem missions on my DM/Regen on -1/x8, looking for the PPD defeat badge. I had to actually take it slow and use some inspirations during ambushes, because they would regularly get me to -60 - -80% defense. They killed me a couple of times.

I can't fight large spawns of them on high settings without someone who, like you said, has very high defense or energy DR.

Werner's original response, to which I replied, was in response to your:

Since you did not specify what type of softcapping, I assumed you (and by extension, Werner) were talking about the most common/practical (for DA, scappers & tankers) softcapping, which is to say S/L. I know almost no one that tries to softcap all 3 positions w/a resist based set, and that indeed would be a rather... difficult proposition, even for a tank (I'm tempted to call it futile, actually). So, my mistake, but an honest one, I think.

(In a further tangent, I'd like to see the kinda of builds your teammates are making if they're faceplanting w/some sort of def cap (maybe they're capped to AoEs?) while you're not. I think this may be a case of lrn2play for them?)

Still, great many try to get resist based sets to softcap (not that 45% is some magic # or anything...) to S/L, and E/N if they can, because, as Arcanaville points out, they are the most common damage types, and by a fair bit. The S/L def on my Fire, Dark & Elec tanks & scrappers make them a *ton* more survivable, and my original point was to emphasize that it didn't take all that much sacrificing to get them there, even on scrappers.

Difficult and expensive, yes. Futile? No.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

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Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Beheader -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Dam%(25)
Level 2: Chop -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(27), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(27), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), T'Death-Dam%(31)
Level 4: Gash -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dam%(7), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(7)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFtn-Def(11), RedFtn-EndRdx(15)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Cloak of Darkness -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(13), HO:Enzym(13)
Level 14: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(15), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(36), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(39), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 16: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(17), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Build%(23)
Level 18: Hover -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(39)
Level 20: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(21), HO:Enzym(21)
Level 22: Swoop -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(36), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(37), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 24: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-EndRdx(50)
Level 26: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam(48), RctvArm-EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Whirling Axe -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 30: Obsidian Shield -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Dark Regeneration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Cleave -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 38: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(46), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(48)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 2: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 3: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Gauntlet
Level 5: Ninja Run
Level 3: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 3: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 3: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 3: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(33), P'Shift-End%(46)



I almost want to build it just so I can play it to see how indestructible it is.

Defense:

S/L: 43.6%
FCEN: 42.4%
Psi: 33.6%
Melee: 46.1%
Ranged: 47.4%
AoE: 46.4%

Resistance:

S/L: 68.2% with tough, 47% without
F/C: 48.2%
E: 31.3%
N: 68.9%
T: 31.3%
Psi: 50%

And it manages 2.15 eps net recovery including the two procs with all toggles except Tough running (1.98 eps with tough) and has a reasonably slotted Dark Regen. Since I mocked this up off the top of my head, I'm guessing there's room for improvement. Still, it does look like a mighty hard thing to kill. The weak spot is, I guess non-positional psi? Only 50% resistance and 33.6% defense to that. And only one PvPIO and no purples: most min/maxers could almost build this thing with their pocket change.

The only problem is you have to hover while fighting to get the full effect. But when you're not tanking Godzilla and Mothra simultaneously, you can always shut off a few toggles.

Do eet! Or at least a cleaned up version of it. Soft-capped uber dark is fun. This is my current build for my Katana/Dark. (Well, technically, one of the two Ribosomes is still level 52 instead of level 53. Oh, and more importantly, I don't have Task Force Commander, but I include it in my builds for comparison purposes since most people include it.)

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75% melee defense
74% lethal defense
45% ranged/AoE defense
55% smashing/lethal resistance
50% negative/psionic resistance
41% fire/cold resistance
12 second Dark Regeneration recharge
1848 hit points

Once I get the very rare cardiac alpha:

60% smashing/lethal resistance
57% psionic resistance
55% negative resistance
44% fire/cold resistance
sustainable endurance (with actual use of toggles)

I don't mind hover Scrapping. I'm actually enjoying fighting in the Shadow Shard for instance.

Non-positional psi hurts, but not THAT bad. I didn't have any major problem with Malaise as an AV with a previous iteration of this build, for instance. It would be even less painful for a Tanker.

No, the weakness, hands down, is defense debuffs.

That was a bit of a joke. When your weak spot is 34% defense, 50% resistance, and the world's largest heal, your real weak spot is probably internet connectivity or the need to eat.

Curse this fleshy human shell!

Yeah, it's true, we both cheated in one way or another. Good job, Iggy. You don't have either Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom, but I can tell you they don't do much for you on a softcapped Dark Armor (Edit: Oppressive Gloom would actually be counterproductive), so I don't consider that a big compromise. Cool, you even got 95% to hit +4s in most of the attacks. Dark Regeneration is missing a couple slots - Golgis? Siphon Life is slotted purely as an attack, but you also have Dark Regeneration, so you're hardly lacking in healing capability. Siphon is more to keep your hit points topped up, reserving Dark Regeneration for the really nasty hits. So again, a compromise, but not a huge one. I'm concerned about your attack chain with your low recharge and shortage of attacks. There's probably something passable, but it didn't seem to be enough recharge for anything I already computed in my spreadsheet. With spiritual you could pull something off, but I think you're going to need cardiac for endurance management. So I guess I'd call offensive output the sacrifice of the build. Still, nice. Saved for reference.

Arcana, you KNOW nobody realizes that you joke. We think you're some sort of machine oracle. Humor always catches us by surprise.

This wins. Can I sig this?

Oh.. she was joking.... and here I started analyzing my builds to find ways to reduce my food requirements.

Oh, it's very possible, just expensive. My build puts me at 44.8% S/L/F/C/E/N, and 21.1% Psi. It gives up no damage or resistance to get that, although it has less global recharge and HP/regen than other setups I could have gone with.

Edit: Doh, you were talking about positional defense. Yeah, that's a bit harder to do for most melee characters, from what I've seen. Incredibly easy on some other though (like my Bots/Traps MM).

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Impervious Girl: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Dam%(13)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(17), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(19), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 6: Hover -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23)
Level 8: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(25), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Focus Chi -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(29), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(29), GSFC-Build%(31)
Level 12: Resist Elements -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 14: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(33), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 20: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 28: Invincibility -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(42), HO:Enzym(42)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mako-Acc/Dmg(45), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 44: Unstoppable -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Warriors Challenge -- Range-I(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Total Radial Revamp
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(13), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-End%(17)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 14.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 14.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 16% Defense(Melee)
• 16.63% Defense(Smashing)
• 16.63% Defense(Lethal)
• 16.63% Defense(Fire)
• 16.63% Defense(Cold)
• 16.63% Defense(Energy)
• 16.63% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 21.63% Defense(Ranged)
• 17.88% Defense(AoE)
• 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 10% FlySpeed
• 230.91 HP (17.25%) HitPoints
• 10% JumpHeight
• 10% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Held) 9.9%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 19.25%
• MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
• 6.5% (0.109 End/sec) Recovery
• 74% (4.137 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
• 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
• 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
• 20% RunSpeed
• 5% XPDebtProtection

I'm working on a DA/DM brute that will be S/L softcapped, but only 20-30% to the other types. Will either of these benefit me (I only really have room for one), and if so, which will be better?

Why is that?

With that much mitigation, the guys you are are taking out of the fight with oppressive gloom were doing less damage then you'd take running the power.

At base values, CoF and OG are functionally the same though by drastically differing mechanics. As you build up defense values two things change dramatically.

• Oppressive Gloom stuns mobs at the expense of your hit points. At base values, this is considered negligible when compare to amount of incoming damage that has been reduced by OG. At high levels of defense, OG contribution to your survivability is diminished, making it harder to justify the hit points lost. If you have a primary that can stack stuns with OG, and argument can be made for OG>CoF, but this would not be the case with DM/DA.

• In addition to fearing mobs, CoF also applies a 5% to hit debuff to all mobs in range. Due to defense/to hit mechanics, these values stack directly the defense values you've amassed. For a DM/DA this is of particular advantage as it essentially guarantees you have a 10-15% to hit debuff applied to your main target (before factoring resistances).

For a DM/DA with high defense, CoF is vastly superior to OG.

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